My main is a lvl 70 Mage, but a few months ago I rolled a Druid, Ronule, that I wanted to have to lvl 70 by the time WoTLK comes out. Fortunately, leveling is easy now and I reached 70 about a month ago. When leveling, my focus was on gaining experience and moving on, so I did almost no grouping until I was over lvl 65. Now that I have reached my leveling goal, I am trying to develop the skill set to be a good tank and I am having a hard time filling the role.
I am now at 13K HP/409 Def (profile does not currently show the Regal Protectorate I have)/18.2K Armor and I think he takes a pretty good beating. So far I have tanked only 10 instances, but I have been very disappointed in both my performance and that of the people I have tanked for. A solid third of the groups have contained members, both DPS and healers, that would not let me get good agro before making their move, the bane of any tank. However, there have been groups in which I was being given a solid 5 seconds to get agro and a mob or two was still pulled off me fairly quickly.
This experience has given me an all new appreciation for Druid and Warrior tanks (I still think Palis have it easy in controlling the fight), as there is almost a tightrope that has to be walked in regards to health, armor, defense (including all of the Dodge, Block, and Parry), and attack abilities (to hit, to crit, and power). I know I have work to do on my rotation, and this is not really the point of my post (that is what the stickies and searches are for). I guess I am just wondering whether my experience is uncommon?
Edited, Jun 18th 2008 10:48pm by wjcott
- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- Class Discussion
- Is Tanking the Hardest Role to Fill?
Is Tanking the Hardest Role to Fill?Follow
learn to Omen.. seriously let them know if they don't give you enough time to get aggro they'll tank the mob.
27 posts
Actually, I have been finding this as well. My druid just turned 70 and I have the worst time keeping aggro from a multiple mobs. I usually pull with ferie fire and then lacerate, mangle, lacerate, lacerate etc. However, I find that I am looking that mob to my dps when the mob is at about 50% health. Now, I am not sure if I should pull with starfire/moonfire, then shift to bear and lacerate, mangle. But, I too am wondering what is better for gaining and keeping aggro. Especially multiple mobs...
Haksu
Fenris Realm
Haksu
Fenris Realm
Scholar
36 posts
I had the same problem as a fresh 70, IMO its the gear. At the beginning you have to sacrives alot of AP for hp armor and defense but as your gear progresses your threat generation will become waaaay better. Also, if your dps out gears you, there isn't much you can do besides telling them do gimp their dps. Once you get a steady groove and good gear tanking becomes one of the easiest rolls i've ever done!
Are you using CC? Or tanking many mobs at a time? Do you mark, and do the DPS attack your target or it is a free for all?
I learned the hard way with a guild where I was; the DPS were all geared towards T5 contents (at that time) and would go all out. Of course they could hold their own ground (and I remember a shaman that would take my 2nd target just for the heck of it). I usually spam lacerate (when in a group with dps with high TPS) and mangle when ready. I don't do much damage, but I manage to keep aggro on at least 1 :) If there are multiples targets, I will include a swipe from time to time to make sure the healer is safe.
What I tried lately is a lacerate macro with mouseover. I don't have the code of the macro here, but you can find it pretty easily on the web if you want it. With the nameplates enabled, I put my mouse over a nameplate, use the macro and it will lacerate that target without having to switch my main target. With that method I can tank 4 and 5 mobs and keep the aggro on all of them (of course, at the condition that the group focus on one target at a time ;)) That method could help you some.
On your gear, focus on getting your 412/415 def (cant remember which one! ;)) and raise your armor. Use agi gem once you have your def capped to raise your dodge and you armor (not that much ;))
Ohhh don't worry, I had the same experience when I turned 70 too :) The tank is the.. trickiest part of the instance. You have to know the fights, the mobs. Do this boss you have to turn his back on the group? Which mob must be CC'ed or which one must die first. Which group to pull, will it pull the whole room? Since my druid is either resto or feral(both kits are acceptable) I always prefer to be the tank than the healer, I have more controls on what is going on :)
Good luck !
I learned the hard way with a guild where I was; the DPS were all geared towards T5 contents (at that time) and would go all out. Of course they could hold their own ground (and I remember a shaman that would take my 2nd target just for the heck of it). I usually spam lacerate (when in a group with dps with high TPS) and mangle when ready. I don't do much damage, but I manage to keep aggro on at least 1 :) If there are multiples targets, I will include a swipe from time to time to make sure the healer is safe.
What I tried lately is a lacerate macro with mouseover. I don't have the code of the macro here, but you can find it pretty easily on the web if you want it. With the nameplates enabled, I put my mouse over a nameplate, use the macro and it will lacerate that target without having to switch my main target. With that method I can tank 4 and 5 mobs and keep the aggro on all of them (of course, at the condition that the group focus on one target at a time ;)) That method could help you some.
On your gear, focus on getting your 412/415 def (cant remember which one! ;)) and raise your armor. Use agi gem once you have your def capped to raise your dodge and you armor (not that much ;))
Quote:
I know I have work to do on my rotation, and this is not really the point of my post (that is what the stickies and searches are for). I guess I am just wondering whether my experience is uncommon?
Ohhh don't worry, I had the same experience when I turned 70 too :) The tank is the.. trickiest part of the instance. You have to know the fights, the mobs. Do this boss you have to turn his back on the group? Which mob must be CC'ed or which one must die first. Which group to pull, will it pull the whole room? Since my druid is either resto or feral(both kits are acceptable) I always prefer to be the tank than the healer, I have more controls on what is going on :)
Good luck !
Really good advice. I have my low level druid and I sometimes find it a pain to tank with people trying to free for all.
Scholar
23 posts
My early tanking had me trying to figure out how to deal with mages that want to pull with a fireball, priest that shield on pull, the rogue that stunlocks for the first 8 seconds of every pull and all other sorts of "head smack" moments. At the same time I was trying to figure out a macro and keyboard setups that allowed me access to what I needed without cluttering up my head trying to remember a bunch of buttons. You will know what you need eventually and will duck the Shattered Hall runs with no cc and won't be fooled with the Heroic Ramparts is so easy you can do it in greens line.
When you start developing that comfort I would suggest you make a habit of gaining a rapport with your healer. They realize that if they can help you do your job then theirs will be more successful. Healers by nature analyze more tanks then any other party member so they maybe able to offer some insight into other things that they have seen. If both of you jump a misbehaving party member they will be hard pressed to **** the 2 hardest party members to find off.
As far as initial aggro, I personally like the druids represented in these posts that use all their abilities. The only time I pull with FF is when I have more than 20 rage going in. If I am going to have to powershift anyway I find it more efficient to cast a regrowth then wrath (target1) - moonfire (target2) and try to sneak a lifebloom in there before shifting for my free rage. With that type start up most never even get close to yanking the main target off me. I also, contrary to best practices but I like it so I do it any way, have mangle and maul macro'd together. This worked really well early but as my gear gets better I am starting to have rage issues so I may have to cut it out.
When you start developing that comfort I would suggest you make a habit of gaining a rapport with your healer. They realize that if they can help you do your job then theirs will be more successful. Healers by nature analyze more tanks then any other party member so they maybe able to offer some insight into other things that they have seen. If both of you jump a misbehaving party member they will be hard pressed to **** the 2 hardest party members to find off.
As far as initial aggro, I personally like the druids represented in these posts that use all their abilities. The only time I pull with FF is when I have more than 20 rage going in. If I am going to have to powershift anyway I find it more efficient to cast a regrowth then wrath (target1) - moonfire (target2) and try to sneak a lifebloom in there before shifting for my free rage. With that type start up most never even get close to yanking the main target off me. I also, contrary to best practices but I like it so I do it any way, have mangle and maul macro'd together. This worked really well early but as my gear gets better I am starting to have rage issues so I may have to cut it out.
IMO, tanking is the toughest thing in the game. Healers can flame me for this (and while I don't have a dedicated healer my feral pretty much healed his way to OL) but healing involves watching bars and anticipating damage. Tanking involves having to react to everything both the mobs and your own party are doing, not to mention setting up the pulls, marking, etc. Multi-mob tanking is always tough, though a feral should be able to hold three mobs' attention as long as everyone focusses on skull.
I always go crazy in pugs when dps doesnt let my tank get in a few hits to get aggro. But I got a different perspective on tanking last night, when my enhance shaman ran a SP pug with a good group that used some admittedly unorthodox tactics. We didn't have cc but had a terrific holy priest. On some of the big (4+) pulls, what I (and the boomkin who was there) ended up doing is basically picking mobs to solo to ensure they wouldnt run to the healer while the tank and other dps kept the main mass away from the priest. Since I can pretty much keep a caster mob locked down as a shaman I usually picked one of the casters while the tank took another and its three friends. It got stressful for the tank, who would see a mob on me or the boomkin and run over to try to pull it off. I'm sure he was cursing under his breath about crazy DPS. But sometimes when DPS peels a mob they can handle it and are doing it intentionally. When I tank I usually let the mob work on the DPS and see if the toon can survive. If they can, no sweat. Tank's main job is to protect the healer. DPS comes second.
I always go crazy in pugs when dps doesnt let my tank get in a few hits to get aggro. But I got a different perspective on tanking last night, when my enhance shaman ran a SP pug with a good group that used some admittedly unorthodox tactics. We didn't have cc but had a terrific holy priest. On some of the big (4+) pulls, what I (and the boomkin who was there) ended up doing is basically picking mobs to solo to ensure they wouldnt run to the healer while the tank and other dps kept the main mass away from the priest. Since I can pretty much keep a caster mob locked down as a shaman I usually picked one of the casters while the tank took another and its three friends. It got stressful for the tank, who would see a mob on me or the boomkin and run over to try to pull it off. I'm sure he was cursing under his breath about crazy DPS. But sometimes when DPS peels a mob they can handle it and are doing it intentionally. When I tank I usually let the mob work on the DPS and see if the toon can survive. If they can, no sweat. Tank's main job is to protect the healer. DPS comes second.
deleted
Edited, Aug 27th 2008 12:28am by kawainui
Edited, Aug 27th 2008 12:28am by kawainui
Personally I never had much trouble getting into tanking, but this was partially because I raided so long in a non-tank role and knew what to expect.
Both my tanks (Warrior and Druid) have the smoothest pug runs of any of my characters. Even with unspectacular gear. The top three tips I'd suggest would be:
1. Save your Growl til it's needed.
2. Use your Rage. If you're capped at 100 you're wasting potential threat and damage.
3. Learn your most effective tool(s) for building immediate threat. Haven't tanked too long on my druid, but it seems like Mangle is very obviously this skill.
Keep in mind these are very broad generalized tips, and particularly with Growl usage "til it's needed" can mean a lot of different things (ie if you know that mage's next fireball is gonna pull aggro, it's not a horrible idea to Growl before it hits to ensure the mob sticks perfectly on you...but on the other hand if you let the mage pull aggro briefly and Growl you'll get a nice burst of free threat from your Growl, due to how Taunt mechanics work in WOW)
Edited, Jun 19th 2008 2:18pm by Axehilt
Both my tanks (Warrior and Druid) have the smoothest pug runs of any of my characters. Even with unspectacular gear. The top three tips I'd suggest would be:
1. Save your Growl til it's needed.
2. Use your Rage. If you're capped at 100 you're wasting potential threat and damage.
3. Learn your most effective tool(s) for building immediate threat. Haven't tanked too long on my druid, but it seems like Mangle is very obviously this skill.
Keep in mind these are very broad generalized tips, and particularly with Growl usage "til it's needed" can mean a lot of different things (ie if you know that mage's next fireball is gonna pull aggro, it's not a horrible idea to Growl before it hits to ensure the mob sticks perfectly on you...but on the other hand if you let the mage pull aggro briefly and Growl you'll get a nice burst of free threat from your Growl, due to how Taunt mechanics work in WOW)
Edited, Jun 19th 2008 2:18pm by Axehilt
In 5-mans/heroics, tanks have it the hardest. In most raids though, expecially on bosses.. healers have it the hardest. All a tank has to do is keep him right there and spam his buttons in rotation. All of the pressure is on the healers to keep 10/25 people alive for five to ten minutes so that you can win. One slip up means that everyone dies.
DPS? our job is easy. Pew pew, stay out out of fire, yell at the healer who can't keep the tank up and you at the same time..??? profit!
DPS? our job is easy. Pew pew, stay out out of fire, yell at the healer who can't keep the tank up and you at the same time..??? profit!
Scholar
38 posts
imo
Tankin is one of those jobs that's a lil more... intense on a regular basis then the other roles. Groups naturally want to follow the tank's lead, and bein a good leader aint very easy. I know you didn't particularly ask for pointers, but what the heck, im feelin talkative today.
Even if it's yer first foray into a dungeon, you can learn to recognize which mobs are the casters (name of mob... what kinda weapon they carry...) and which are melee that will chase you around. This is a fundamental skill of a good tank as it leads to an efficient kill order. One clothie mob should almost always be primary kill target. They are typically the most dangerous to a bear tank and they drop the fastest. CC any others. Also, always have a finger on yer bash button when fightin casters. Heals are bad. Fears are bad. If yer lucky, it'll only shoot lightning bolts at yer face and rain down hellfire. :) Make sure you have enemy cast bar visible and watch that thing like a hawk. I find it fun to bash a heal/fear, then immediately turn tail and get some distance; as soon as they come outta yer bash stun, they almost always start another cast. Feral charge that $#*% biotch! Hell, if there's no other mobs beatin on me I'll tank it in cat form (they dont hit very hard) and maim a cast. Don't forget warstomp if yer tauren.
Almost always pull with nukes. Nukes and heals. Wrath one, (walk backwards) moonfire another, (walk backwards) rejuv yerself, bear form, mangle primary, swipe etc. Nukes get you IMMEDIATE upfront aggro and heals net you aoe aggro. What else are you gonna use all that blue stuff for? Hurricane is another very nifty way to get alotta attention on yerself. You may be a tank, but spells are yer friends!
Get good at draggin mobs around with you and positioning them away from cc'd mobs... without giving up yer threat rotation. It'll help keep yer swipes off the CC; it'll help yer dps not accidentally click on the CC; it'll help yer party not get roasted by the fiery dragon's breath etc. Course, dragons usually tail-swipe too but that's a different matter ;)
Stack agility... and about equal or slightly less stamina. Some'll say stamina is everything, but there's no denyin the power of the crit. Agility begets dodge, armor and crit%. Crits beget aggro and extra rage. Extra rage begets more aggro. Beget? Aggro.
Well, that's all for now...
-B
Edited, Jun 19th 2008 12:31pm by Broma
Tankin is one of those jobs that's a lil more... intense on a regular basis then the other roles. Groups naturally want to follow the tank's lead, and bein a good leader aint very easy. I know you didn't particularly ask for pointers, but what the heck, im feelin talkative today.
Even if it's yer first foray into a dungeon, you can learn to recognize which mobs are the casters (name of mob... what kinda weapon they carry...) and which are melee that will chase you around. This is a fundamental skill of a good tank as it leads to an efficient kill order. One clothie mob should almost always be primary kill target. They are typically the most dangerous to a bear tank and they drop the fastest. CC any others. Also, always have a finger on yer bash button when fightin casters. Heals are bad. Fears are bad. If yer lucky, it'll only shoot lightning bolts at yer face and rain down hellfire. :) Make sure you have enemy cast bar visible and watch that thing like a hawk. I find it fun to bash a heal/fear, then immediately turn tail and get some distance; as soon as they come outta yer bash stun, they almost always start another cast. Feral charge that $#*% biotch! Hell, if there's no other mobs beatin on me I'll tank it in cat form (they dont hit very hard) and maim a cast. Don't forget warstomp if yer tauren.
Almost always pull with nukes. Nukes and heals. Wrath one, (walk backwards) moonfire another, (walk backwards) rejuv yerself, bear form, mangle primary, swipe etc. Nukes get you IMMEDIATE upfront aggro and heals net you aoe aggro. What else are you gonna use all that blue stuff for? Hurricane is another very nifty way to get alotta attention on yerself. You may be a tank, but spells are yer friends!
Get good at draggin mobs around with you and positioning them away from cc'd mobs... without giving up yer threat rotation. It'll help keep yer swipes off the CC; it'll help yer dps not accidentally click on the CC; it'll help yer party not get roasted by the fiery dragon's breath etc. Course, dragons usually tail-swipe too but that's a different matter ;)
Stack agility... and about equal or slightly less stamina. Some'll say stamina is everything, but there's no denyin the power of the crit. Agility begets dodge, armor and crit%. Crits beget aggro and extra rage. Extra rage begets more aggro. Beget? Aggro.
Well, that's all for now...
-B
Edited, Jun 19th 2008 12:31pm by Broma
Except that you have to have enough health to survive an unlucky series of crushing blows + specials for the 2-3 seconds between the big heals you're getting, more if the mob has an AoE silence or incapacitate effect.
Quote:
both DPS and healers, that would not let me get good agro before making their move
This is the best and worst thing you'll experience as a tank.
The Good:
It's good because it trains you how to effectively hold aggro when things go awry. Hang in there. Keep pugging, because the skills you learn from a bad group will help you out tremendously down the road. When you get into a good group and somebody makes a dumb mistake, but you keep your cool and get things under control, they'll appreciate the countless wipes that prepared you for this kind of stuff. :D
The Bad:
It's bad, for obvious reasons. Unless your a repair vendor. Then it's all good.
jeffoncom wrote:
The Good:
It's good because it trains you how to effectively hold aggro when things go awry. Hang in there. Keep pugging, because the skills you learn from a bad group will help you out tremendously down the road. When you get into a good group and somebody makes a dumb mistake, but you keep your cool and get things under control, they'll appreciate the countless wipes that prepared you for this kind of stuff. :D
True stuff. For healers also I would imagine. DPS is more about learning to use Omen.
Recent Visitors: 171
All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (171)
- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- Class Discussion
- Is Tanking the Hardest Role to Fill?
© 2024 Fanbyte LLC