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Uncritible?Follow

#1 Jun 16 2008 at 3:51 PM Rating: Decent
I know I am uncrushable if I did my math correctly. but am I uncritible?
And if not how do I fix it?
This really stems from trying to do heroics with my wife, she has 1371 healing unbuffed and alot of times she cannot keep up in heroics like Bot and SV.
And she was told with that much healing she should be able to keep me up in a higher end heroic.
Then they also asked if I was uncritible...I'm not sure on this so can someone let me know?

Here is my armory profile.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Area+52&n=Icedblood.

Thanks,
Iced
#2 Jun 16 2008 at 5:58 PM Rating: Good
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Anytime you're uncrushable you are also uncrittable. According to your armory profile you have 500+def which means you are also passively uncrittable. Read the 1st sticky it will more fully answer your question.
#3 Jun 16 2008 at 6:32 PM Rating: Decent
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1,004 posts
Fast answers:

490 Defense + = "Uncritable"
102.4% Combined Block/Dodge/Parry/Miss = Uncrushable

While you are effectively uncrushable you are also effectively uncritable, but you WILL be crit repeatedly if you attempt to get uncritable without using Defense/Resilience.

Long answer:

+1 to reading the Defense & Mitigation sticky and checking out failsafedesign.com/maintankadin
#4 Jun 17 2008 at 12:20 PM Rating: Decent
So I'm guessing its my wifes lack of bonus healing thats getting us killed in the higher end heroics then?

Thanks,
Iced
#5 Jun 17 2008 at 1:32 PM Rating: Good
Terrorfiend
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Losie wrote:
Fast answers:

490 Defense + = "Uncritable"
102.4% Combined Block/Dodge/Parry/Miss = Uncrushable

While you are effectively uncrushable you are also effectively uncritable, but you WILL be crushed repeatedly if you attempt to get uncritable without using Defense/Resilience.

Long answer:

+1 to reading the Defense & Mitigation sticky and checking out failsafedesign.com/maintankadin


ftfy
#6 Jun 17 2008 at 1:34 PM Rating: Good
Terrorfiend
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Dizzzer wrote:
So I'm guessing its my wifes lack of bonus healing thats getting us killed in the higher end heroics then?

Thanks,
Iced


its always her fault. this is coming from a tank with an exclusive healer, my wife.

just dont blame her or she'll go all crazy on you.
#7 Jun 17 2008 at 1:56 PM Rating: Decent
Well i'm not really blaming.
We both wonder if its her or me or a combination of both thats all.
She's seen me take on the high end heroics with a +1900 healer and live. She is a very good healer, we were just wondering if I need better gear at the moment or she needs more healing to keep me up.
Its kind of a question of what are we lacking here to do the higher end heroics because we keep wiping on stuff like SV.
I know we both could stand better gear, but with my current gear what should her +healing be at to do stuff like heroic SV?

Thanks,
Iced.
#8 Jun 17 2008 at 3:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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1,004 posts
Quote:
ftfy


While your fix is also technically true, I meant it the original way :D If someone tries to rely on pushing crits off of the attack table by stacking block + avoidence, they WILL be crit repeatedly whereas crit immunity through Defense is actually reliable.

What class of healer is she? 1300 healing is WAAYYYY less for a Priest or Druid than it is for a Paladin. A 1300 Paladin could probably keep me up in heroics while I wear Spell Damage gear and parade through with almost no CC. A 1300 Priest would have a WAY harder time, and a 1300 Druid might as well go home.
#9 Jun 18 2008 at 7:08 AM Rating: Decent
She is a Bloodelf Holy/Disc hybrid priest
#10 Jun 18 2008 at 11:16 AM Rating: Decent
I'm the pocket healer Dizzer is posting about. Here is a link to my armory profile: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Area+52&n=Korinae

I'm at 1411 healing w/o buffs, probably around 1500 with my spirit buff and closer to 1600 with fish sticks/healing power potions. I just got some new toys last night, so I haven't had a chance to trick myself out and get the exact numbers. I feel pretty confident that it isn't my healing skills as I rarely have issues in regular instances, and I am getting pretty damned good at healing Kara.

So as a holy/disc priest, can anyone give me an idea of how much healing I would need for the different heroics to be able to do it without committing suicide repeatedly? Obviously, the rest of the group comes into play also, but a general idea would be nice. I know the more healing the better, but if, for example, you need a minimum of 1600 healing for one heroic, I wouldn't want to try it with 1300.
#11 Jun 18 2008 at 11:38 AM Rating: Good
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1,599 posts
To the OP - even if you are uncrittable, the heroic mobs still hit VERY VERY hard.

What type of CC are you using? If you don't have enough CC, then there is a lot of added stress on your healer. I remember trying to run heroic SV with my Healadin (+1600ish healing at the time) without any CC. It was very very tough! I hit 1.4k HPS :) Best DPS was around 400 DPS.....ugh

How good is your DPS? If your DPS sucks, then the fights last a lot longer, and can put a lot of extra stress on your healer. Basically, if the total healing is > 2x total damage of any DPS, than that DPS is sub-standard.

Are you running with lots of melee dps? There are lots of mobs that do AoE damage (like the giant bog lord things in SV). Melee DPS gets hit hard in those situations, and can add stress to healing.

Is your wife spending time healing your DPS folks who are pulling aggro? If your DPS constantly needs heals, then that is less healing that you are getting as a tank. Of course, your wife should let the DPS die before giving up any tank heals.

Do any of these apply?


#12 Jun 18 2008 at 12:56 PM Rating: Decent
Good questions.

I think on the SV run we had an ok group.
a mage a lock
and 1 other melee dps a druid
I however dont know what the dps of the group was but the fights weren't lasting long so i think we were better than average. but I don't have a dps meter at the moment.
Were just working with eachother trying to figure it out so we can stay alive in the higher end heroics because we both need alot of badges for some gear :D

Thanks,
Iced.
#13 Jun 19 2008 at 5:27 AM Rating: Good
41 posts
A note about the healer spec. If she wouldn't mind respeccing, that should help a bit too... I have a holy/disc priest myself, and heal heroics just fine (assuming decent tank and dps) with only 1400 or so healing. I think there's a few points that could be better spent. First would be to move the 5/5 spell warding further down the holy tree to get into the empowered healing, if your whole goal is to be able to heal. Spell warding is alright soloing where you may be taking some damage regularly, but if you're only plan is to heal endgame instance/raids, then theres only a couple instances when you will even risk spell damage unless your tank can't hold aggro off you.
I'm also a fan of the spirit of redemption. Should you die, that's 15 seconds of free healing that may save a wipe, not to mention the additional 5% spirit boost which with your Divine spirit and spirital guidance, adds a lot to not only heals, but mana regen.

There's a few talents that could be tweeked in both holy and disc to improve the heals in terms of number, and if you're gearing with intel and spirit/mana per 5 (i prefer spirit thanks to the healing bonuses), some of those disc intel points may be redundant unless you're finding yourself out of mana way too often.


may as well link my priest, heh: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Rexxar&n=Jediamidala
#14 Jun 19 2008 at 6:27 AM Rating: Good
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Dizzzer wrote:
I think on the SV run we had an ok group.
a mage a lock
and 1 other melee dps a druid


Did the lock use their succubus for CC? If not, then you only had one CC. That is tough.

Also, high end heroics don't give more badges (SV is not a high end heroic - it's actually one of the easier ones). You get the most badges from either the daily, or running Bot. Bot has 5 badges, and is a pretty easy heroic.

If you get a good group, your best bet for badge farming is to learn the easiest heroics, and fly through them.

If you are coordinated, you can probably easily do:

Ramparts - 45 mins (3 badges)
Bot - 1 hr (5 badges)
Mech - 45 mins (4 badges)
Underbog - 1 hr (4 badges)

Just some food for thought. I'm sure you'll do just fine.

EDIT - If you have an over-geared group, then it will go even faster.



Edited, Jun 19th 2008 10:28am by YJMark
#15 Jun 19 2008 at 7:12 AM Rating: Good
Terrorfiend
*****
12,905 posts
dont forget slave pens. that place is also a cakewalk.

#16 Jun 19 2008 at 12:24 PM Rating: Good
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808 posts
Rhiamon wrote:

I'm at 1411 healing w/o buffs, probably around 1500 with my spirit buff and closer to 1600 with fish sticks/healing power potions. I just got some new toys last night, so I haven't had a chance to trick myself out and get the exact numbers. I feel pretty confident that it isn't my healing skills as I rarely have issues in regular instances, and I am getting pretty damned good at healing Kara.


I've done a bit of Maoist self-criticism here before and will continue to admit as much- I have a much (much) harder time healing the "easy" heroics than I have healing Kara. We can two-heal most of Kara, but Heroic Ramps and Underbog make my bloodpressure skyrocket. One problem is that I know that my healing style needs a major adaptation going from one to the other. For most Heroic trash pulls, Flash of Light healing doesn't work. I have to go into most trash pulls expecting to blow 80% of my mana or more, popping trinkets and using a lot more Holy Light than I would in any other circumstances, and then sit to drink quickly while the tank starts the next pull. I heal very conservatively in Kara, while in Heroic runs, mana conservation is just not as important.


KTurner wrote:

its always her fault. this is coming from a tank with an exclusive healer, my wife.


QFT. These are mostly guild runs I'm describing too, so I *know* beyond any doubt that the tank isn't the problem. So it's either the DPS or the healer, and is most likely the healer. As YJMark noted above, Heroic trash can hit really really hard. You've got to look at how you heal and experiment a little. Don't just assume you can do what you do in Kara (where there's 1-2 other healers backing you up). You may need to do more anticipatory healing (even when the tank is at full life, you know a 3k hit is coming in the next second or two). Your gear's not holding you back; success will come with experience.

Best of luck to you both!




#17 Jun 23 2008 at 12:41 PM Rating: Decent
Thank you for all the replies to this.
Giz my wife did a respec and all is much better we were able to roll and finish some heroics.
Now all we eed is a little more practicr and some better gear ;)

Again TY to all for the advice.
--Iced
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