I recently upgraded my computer from the 1999 version to one that can actually do things. Of the many things I've noticed one is giving me many problems, my agro. My dps has jumped compared to where it used to be. I used to be happy hitting 1,000 dps on bosses, but now i've clocked myself at doing 1650dps, but it's usually around 1,200-1,300.
The big problem is the time I can raid. My work schedule keeps me out of every decent guild on my server, hence I have to pug now. The few times I've done Prince with pugs I wouldn't start dps'ing until he was at 90% and by 70% I'd have to soul-shatter and at 50% I'd have to stop all together. Never had to deal with this before as my old computer would usually restrict me to around 800dps.
Basically what I'm asking is there any trinket that can reduce agro. I have subtlety to cloak and the destructive reach talent and always beg to get a pali in the group for salvation, however thats not always possible. I've done all the quests in Outlands that I know of so i'd need something that's a drop or crafted. Any help would be appriciated.
http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Aerie+Peak&n=Ccbutch
ThreatFollow
nothing that you can do. it's not your fault, it's the fault of the tank not knowing how to TPS properly.
if i remember correctly... sheild slam > revenge > devestation > heroic strike in terms of priority.. with shield block being used as often as possible and heroic strike only used if you go above 50 rage... generally macro'd into being used with any of the above so as to be used as much as possible... oh and the sheild slam/revenge thing might be reversed at lower gear levels due to less strength and shield block value gear (or is it rating... i always forget)
find a tank that knows this and regardless of their gear, they'll beable to push out 800-1000 tps MINIMUM.. with T4-T5 equiped pushing out up to 1.2k TPS and T6 geared doing up to 1.6 TPS average.
so umm.. yeah, nothing you can do to sort your tps over than adjust your spell rotation. I checked your armory and simply put you're actually over-geared for kara so no real surprise you're pulling hate in pugs where most members are probably guildless/pvp guilds and the tank probably has no idea how to properly generate threat.
only thing I can think of is to either spec felguard (10-20% of your damage, and so threat, will be coming from your pet, so leaving you to dps harder) or to down-rank... seeing as you're dest spec I'd 1. suggest using CoS/CoE/CoRec instead of CoA/CoD so as to increase raid dps and decrease the damage you deal a bit, so less threat (CoS still means you deal almost as much damage, while CoRec means your tank does a bit more TPS... probably 50-100 more)..
ummm side tracked a bit there.. back on the idea of down-ranking... try one of these combinations:
1) rank.11 SB ==> Rank.6 SB rotation
2) R.11 SB x2 ==> R.6 SB x1 rotation
3) R.11 x3 ==> R.6 x1 rotation
4) either 2 or 3 with the first 5-10% of the boss being spent you doing (1) to keep threat generation lower
basically, test of these... see which gives you the best damage to threat ratio... basically you should aim to have to soul-shatter at around 60-70% on the boss and at 120-125% the tanks threat so as to give the tank enough time to generate alot of threat and so to generate a big enough gap between your threats when you use SS.
on the question of trinkets/items... well technically you can use shrouding potions... but a 2minute cooldown for a -800 threat is 100% pointless... it works out as a much lower threat reductio n than the subtlety enchant and is a waste of a potion CD. for trinkets... there's only 2 in the game worth while... one is from AQ40, it's a 2min cd trinket which gives 15-20seconds of 70% threat generation reduction... but 'cos it's from AQ40 you'll never go there now, so no chance to get it. The other is from Lady Vashj and is a -1000 threat everytime you crit (so it's actually amazing to have if you have threat issues). i forget the name of both but they're the only items worthwhile in the game for decreasing threat generation.
if i remember correctly... sheild slam > revenge > devestation > heroic strike in terms of priority.. with shield block being used as often as possible and heroic strike only used if you go above 50 rage... generally macro'd into being used with any of the above so as to be used as much as possible... oh and the sheild slam/revenge thing might be reversed at lower gear levels due to less strength and shield block value gear (or is it rating... i always forget)
find a tank that knows this and regardless of their gear, they'll beable to push out 800-1000 tps MINIMUM.. with T4-T5 equiped pushing out up to 1.2k TPS and T6 geared doing up to 1.6 TPS average.
so umm.. yeah, nothing you can do to sort your tps over than adjust your spell rotation. I checked your armory and simply put you're actually over-geared for kara so no real surprise you're pulling hate in pugs where most members are probably guildless/pvp guilds and the tank probably has no idea how to properly generate threat.
only thing I can think of is to either spec felguard (10-20% of your damage, and so threat, will be coming from your pet, so leaving you to dps harder) or to down-rank... seeing as you're dest spec I'd 1. suggest using CoS/CoE/CoRec instead of CoA/CoD so as to increase raid dps and decrease the damage you deal a bit, so less threat (CoS still means you deal almost as much damage, while CoRec means your tank does a bit more TPS... probably 50-100 more)..
ummm side tracked a bit there.. back on the idea of down-ranking... try one of these combinations:
1) rank.11 SB ==> Rank.6 SB rotation
2) R.11 SB x2 ==> R.6 SB x1 rotation
3) R.11 x3 ==> R.6 x1 rotation
4) either 2 or 3 with the first 5-10% of the boss being spent you doing (1) to keep threat generation lower
basically, test of these... see which gives you the best damage to threat ratio... basically you should aim to have to soul-shatter at around 60-70% on the boss and at 120-125% the tanks threat so as to give the tank enough time to generate alot of threat and so to generate a big enough gap between your threats when you use SS.
on the question of trinkets/items... well technically you can use shrouding potions... but a 2minute cooldown for a -800 threat is 100% pointless... it works out as a much lower threat reductio n than the subtlety enchant and is a waste of a potion CD. for trinkets... there's only 2 in the game worth while... one is from AQ40, it's a 2min cd trinket which gives 15-20seconds of 70% threat generation reduction... but 'cos it's from AQ40 you'll never go there now, so no chance to get it. The other is from Lady Vashj and is a -1000 threat everytime you crit (so it's actually amazing to have if you have threat issues). i forget the name of both but they're the only items worthwhile in the game for decreasing threat generation.
I wish I could get into the higher lvl raids, but as I said my schedule shoots that all to hell. Seeing as how my guild fell apart while I was AFK I'm just happy to get into Kara pugs at this point even though the tanks are usually heroic with some kara gear, one actually said he felt dead inside after trying to deal with my threat :(
I very rarly use CoD or CoA on a normal rotation. It's always CoS or whatever the group needs, albiet I never thought of putting up CoR to help the tanks threat. I shall also give the downranked Shadowbolts a try and if that doesn't work I might switch to Felguard. Havn't used a pet in over a year (mana battery or sac)so at least it'll be something fresh. Many thanks.
I very rarly use CoD or CoA on a normal rotation. It's always CoS or whatever the group needs, albiet I never thought of putting up CoR to help the tanks threat. I shall also give the downranked Shadowbolts a try and if that doesn't work I might switch to Felguard. Havn't used a pet in over a year (mana battery or sac)so at least it'll be something fresh. Many thanks.
I would recommend that you try removing gear (off-hand, trinkets, and neck) and using the demon armor instead of fel armor buff. That will drop you about 275+ damage and should help reduce your threat without spending any money on respecs. Then you can play around with your threat and add pieces back if needed.
Of course lowering your damage sucks and the best solution would be a better tank, but that's not always easy in pugs.
Edit: almost forgot, using imp for stamina buff instead of saccing a demon will lower your damage too.
Edited, Jun 16th 2008 10:51am by Ailitardif
Of course lowering your damage sucks and the best solution would be a better tank, but that's not always easy in pugs.
Edit: almost forgot, using imp for stamina buff instead of saccing a demon will lower your damage too.
Edited, Jun 16th 2008 10:51am by Ailitardif
If your not gonna do anymore raiding, then I would just change your spec. Destro will pull aggro, and in Kara, alot of times you get tanks that have trouble hoding aggro. You get a lucky string of crits, your gonna pull aggro, nothing you can do about it. Last Kara I ran with a PuG, if I could get more than 2 SBs off in a row without pulling aggro I was lucky. It was mostly shoot one, wait a while, shoot another.
When I was Affliction, this didn't happen, so you could re-spec and try that.
When I was Demo, if I just pulled out my Imp Master Demonologist gives -10% Threat, so that helped a lot.
As Destro, you just gotta hold back, or yeah, like Jenova said, put on crappier gear.
When I was Affliction, this didn't happen, so you could re-spec and try that.
When I was Demo, if I just pulled out my Imp Master Demonologist gives -10% Threat, so that helped a lot.
As Destro, you just gotta hold back, or yeah, like Jenova said, put on crappier gear.
I never said crappier gear, i said down-grade spells. much better choice to crappier gear as you can go back to full out dpsing when needed. much better control method
Yeah your just running with a really trash tank, it's not your fault. Tanks are really gear dependant though, especially warriors. If hes got trash gear, hes gonna be a trash tank. Now he might have good gear and just not know what to do. A decent rotation for wars when they start a battle is to go: Bloodrage (keep up shield block for revenge) > Shield Slam > Revenge > Devastate > Devastate. Only throw in the second devastate if you have good fps/latency or else just take it out. Heroic strike is decent threat and doesnt affect the GCD. It's only used to prevent rage waste (rage you gain when your already at 100) since HS dumps rage since you won't white hit and generate more. If you have a decent amount of rage, Shield Slam > Revenge since it causes more threat but also costs more rage.
One thing the tank should know and what hes probably NOT doing is always being on GCD. You need to almost always be using something and almost always have your GCD down to do good threat. Both revenge and shield slam are on 6 sec CD's which works well with the 1.5 GCD. Always keep shield block up (unaffected by GCD) for revenge. Those are the basics of tanking as a war.
As to your threat problems, salv is almost a must. If there isn't a pally in your raid well...your screwed. Crits will be giving you like 5k tps.
Edited, Jun 17th 2008 11:50am by Tugnus
One thing the tank should know and what hes probably NOT doing is always being on GCD. You need to almost always be using something and almost always have your GCD down to do good threat. Both revenge and shield slam are on 6 sec CD's which works well with the 1.5 GCD. Always keep shield block up (unaffected by GCD) for revenge. Those are the basics of tanking as a war.
As to your threat problems, salv is almost a must. If there isn't a pally in your raid well...your screwed. Crits will be giving you like 5k tps.
Edited, Jun 17th 2008 11:50am by Tugnus
tugnus explained it very well, similar to what I said except he gave more detail on warrior tps rotations. only thing to add is that melee GCD is 1second and not 1.5 like casters
Only rogues have 1 second global cooldowns; warriors, paladins, and druids all have to contend with the 1.5 GCD that everybody else does.
Also, which boss fights are you having that much trouble with aggro? There are some boss fights i.e void reaver and gurtogg that force you to be sensitive about your threat.
Edited, Jun 17th 2008 8:51pm by SomnusSleeper
Also, which boss fights are you having that much trouble with aggro? There are some boss fights i.e void reaver and gurtogg that force you to be sensitive about your threat.
Edited, Jun 17th 2008 8:51pm by SomnusSleeper
Quote:
Also, which boss fights are you having that much trouble with aggro? There are some boss fights i.e void reaver and gurtogg that force you to be sensitive about your threat.
Ha, I wish I could fight Void Reaver or Gurtogg. As it stands I have never seen a T5 raid and due to pugs have never been past the second boss in ZA. Kinda hard looking for a group when you play midnight to 3 or 4 am, let alone a good one. Which unfortunatly leaves my highest raid drop off of High King Maulgar. However, for some reason I don't really have a big agro problem when it comes to Gruul's or mag's Lair even though I've always been in the top 3 in damage.
The main problem comes from Prince and Nightbane. I know not to go over the tank on prince and nighbanes agro resets, it's just frustrating standing there cause my threat won't allow me to do anything. I havn't been able to get back into kara, or anything else, since I posted so I havn't been able to try downranking spells. If that doesn't work I might switch back to affliction as I recently received Timbal's Focusing Crystal.
Still crossing my fingers that I'll stumble across a good guild that plays late at night.
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