Just respec'd from feral to resto for variety and to grind toward PvP upgrades to my tanking gear. (i.e. I'm not worried about dailies for gold atm) I've been having good experience/fun in BGs, but after going 0-for-2 in PvE sitautions last night I want to sanity check my excuses.
FAILURE #1
Responded to LFHealer for Circle of Blood in Nagrand (practice is practice...) where I found a tankless party of two huntards, a rogue, and a fire mage. Made it thru clefty boss and the twins, but on the self-rezing shammy I couldn't keep up with spiky damage to random squishy toons. A hunter dropped to make room for a druid who was also resto so I tanked while she healed because I carry a decent 'combat set' just in case. It worked, yay for us.
My excuse for healing failure: Parties need tanks.
FAILURE #2
I didn't want my first instance job to be a heroic, but guildies begged me to heal 2nd half of heroic ramps because their healer bailed. Tank was an arms/fury warrior that's supposedly OT'd first part of Kara, but certainly not overgeared. Trash was easy thanks to good CC and rolling lifebloom x3. We downed Omor the Unscarred, but failed against Nazan/Vazruden a half-dozen times with me healing. I was keeping tank's HP up, but we kept wiping because dragon was all over the place, usually up my ***. In desperation I hearthed to shat and got my tanking + fire resist set and we tried me tanking as tank hopped on his priest, even though we knew I wouldn't be able to grab/hold aggro. (I forgot at the time that I'm probably not even critproof with no SotF anymore.) We were right, so called it a night.
My excuse for healing failure: Parties in heroics need *properly spec'd* tanks.
So whattaya say...can I sleep at night with those excuses by my side? I'm confident in #1, but can arms/fury warriors typically tank heroics and I just suck?
Edit: I just relogged out in my PvE healing gear in case you want to check my gear/spec for signs of suckage. I know I would benefit from enchants but might not stick with the spec long enough to justify the spendy ones.
P.S. to the Edit:
Also, I roll with two healsets right now:
PvE: 1045 heal, 7500 mana, 9.35% spellcrit, 281 mana regen, 6600 hp, 14 resilience
PvP: 1000 heal, 7700 mana, 9.53 spellcrit, 208 mana regen, 7675 hp, 141 resilience
My logic? More resilience and hp for PvP, more mana regen for PvE. Kinda guessing, though. Worth bothering with the two sets?
Edited, Jun 13th 2008 5:34pm by JeeBar
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Sanity Check my Excuses for Healing FailureFollow
Yeah, I agree. Tank failure. If you go OOM or you're spamming heals and can't keep up, it's the healer. If the tank dies faster than you can even cast a HT/Rejuv+SM/Regrowth, or can't hold aggo, it's the tank. If DPS dies, L2Omen.
Sounds reasonable to me. If the tank isn't up to snuff you can only do so much. I don't heal with my druid nor at your level, but I'm the healer for our static party and if my husband (the tank) isn't properly geared because he was too cheap to buy upgrades, I burn his dinner on purpose.
Scholar
45 posts
#1: Absolutely. The Circle of Blood is pretty tricky if you're doing it at a level/gear appropriate time. Doing it without a tank isn't going to work unless people seriously outgear it.
#2: Well, you mention that you had no problem keeping the tank alive, so to be honest I'd rule out healing problems, but tank spec/gear shouldn't therefore be a problem either. That one seems like the age-old multi-mob aggro issue. Either the dps were over-aggro'ing and making things difficult or (as seems more likely as you mention it was going for you), the tank failed at picking up the dragon when it spawned.
I'd mark the second down to a tanking skill failure, more than anything. Arms/Fury is probably do-able
#2: Well, you mention that you had no problem keeping the tank alive, so to be honest I'd rule out healing problems, but tank spec/gear shouldn't therefore be a problem either. That one seems like the age-old multi-mob aggro issue. Either the dps were over-aggro'ing and making things difficult or (as seems more likely as you mention it was going for you), the tank failed at picking up the dragon when it spawned.
I'd mark the second down to a tanking skill failure, more than anything. Arms/Fury is probably do-able
Scholar
38 posts
Quote:
I was keeping tank's HP up
This is the main part of your job, you don't have much control over who the dragon decides to attack. So aslong as you know you're doing your job properly, then you know it wasn't your fault for the group failing.
Edited, Jun 14th 2008 10:36am by Altrove
you did fine jee.
for vaz/nazan, what needs to happen (ive tanked him as arms/fury a number of times) is that as soon as the dragon drops down, the tank switches to him and starts building threat. he completely ignores vaz, who should be DPS'ed as hard as possible by the rest of the group. by the time vaz is down, the tank should have a good lock on nazan and then the DPS can step it up and finish him off.
for vaz/nazan, what needs to happen (ive tanked him as arms/fury a number of times) is that as soon as the dragon drops down, the tank switches to him and starts building threat. he completely ignores vaz, who should be DPS'ed as hard as possible by the rest of the group. by the time vaz is down, the tank should have a good lock on nazan and then the DPS can step it up and finish him off.
Ramparts. If it wasn't for that last boss encounter, the instance would be easy enough.
Sometimes Nazan is just in a pissy mood and there's nothing you can do about it.
Sometimes Nazan is just in a pissy mood and there's nothing you can do about it.
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
Every time I've wiped on Vaz/Naz (normal or heroic) it's because too many people weren't moving out of the flames on the ground or because the tank refused to drop and run to the dragon as soon as he landed. If you don't get threat on the dragon immediately, the first person he goes after is the healer because the healer is the one in the group building threat with every engaged mob in range. It also doesn't help when the dps see the tank run for the dragon and switch target as well, leaving the rider to run amok. When a boss is bouncing all over, you blame the dps...period. It doesn't matter if you've got the poorest tank in the world...part of a dps' job is to manage their threat such that they're not peeling a mob off the tank. If that means they have to stand there and do nothing for a few seconds, then that's what they need to be doing. If they do what they need to do in order to properly manage threat and you wipe because the fight lasts so long the healer goes OOM and the tank dies, then you look to the tank to be seeing what they might have done to build threat faster. It doesn't matter if the tank is doing 200 TPS or 2000...the dps aren't supposed to be going over that.
I agree 100% with AureliusSir. No matter how much threat the tank is putting out, if the DPS agros then all they are showing is decent gear and a lack of skill. I have this problem/argument I have with certain DPS in my guild who continually pull agro. I tell them they are showing a lack of skill. Then of course, I make the mistake of doing it myself and the call me on it. I point out the difference is that I know I have stuffed up and am really pissed that I did it - when they do it they don't seem to care.
It is an ongoing battle, but I do think it is starting to sink in and they are becoming better players. I just wish it was as easy to fix up the DPS in the raid that, even though the seem to know the rotations etc, just don't seem to be able to manage the level of DPS they should be capable of.
Anyway, sorry I got so off-topic lol.
To the original poster :-
1) Most group quests are tough unless you have a tank & a healer.
2) In most cases, DPS warriors that think they can tank - can't.
It is an ongoing battle, but I do think it is starting to sink in and they are becoming better players. I just wish it was as easy to fix up the DPS in the raid that, even though the seem to know the rotations etc, just don't seem to be able to manage the level of DPS they should be capable of.
Anyway, sorry I got so off-topic lol.
To the original poster :-
1) Most group quests are tough unless you have a tank & a healer.
2) In most cases, DPS warriors that think they can tank - can't.
#1 Yes
#2 Yes
I was doing BF daily the other day and we were ripped apart at halfway to the maker because our tank couldnt hold threat, even as I watched Omen my normal spell rotation with about 200 less spell damage was still pulling more threat than him, Starfire, Moonfire, Wrath. We replaced our tank with a druid tank and things improved quite a bit, I could blast out top dps w/o having to worry about pulling aggro.
#2 Yes
I was doing BF daily the other day and we were ripped apart at halfway to the maker because our tank couldnt hold threat, even as I watched Omen my normal spell rotation with about 200 less spell damage was still pulling more threat than him, Starfire, Moonfire, Wrath. We replaced our tank with a druid tank and things improved quite a bit, I could blast out top dps w/o having to worry about pulling aggro.
most dps warriors cannot tank even with gear on, yet some manage it very well. i managed to tank bear boss from 35% as fury.
Thanks all for the feedback and info, gang. I actually made a mistake...he used to be arms/fury but I learned last night that he recently (before the run I described) respec'd to arms/prot (34/5/22). So I'll lay off his spec and just tell him to L2tank...or at least L2tank Nazan/Vazruden. : )
Meanwhile, I'm giving resto a fair shake but feel myself starting to more eagerly anticipate my respec back to feral...mostly because I miss my ability to dps or tank heroics, and because a number of guildies have told me they really miss my tanking. /awshux
Meanwhile, I'm giving resto a fair shake but feel myself starting to more eagerly anticipate my respec back to feral...mostly because I miss my ability to dps or tank heroics, and because a number of guildies have told me they really miss my tanking. /awshux
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