supposed rogue alpha talentsFollow

I like the direction they're taking assassination and combat; I'm unsure of sub.

With resilience remaining in WotLK, I doubt that a Waylay build will be viable.

I like the idea behind it, but I don't see it as being viable.

I absolutely love the change to Vile Poisons, though Setup isn't any more viable than it is right now.

If these talents stay the same, I see Mut as being the new PvP build. The assassination talents are incredible.

Edit: Also, looks like mut may be incredibly viable in PvE in the expansion.

Edited, Jun 13th 2008 12:11am by Theophany

Actually you wouldn't even need the first mut; notice that the talent refreshes to a 5pt SnD.

Basically the rotation would become 5r/5e, with a garrote->SnD to start on the boss.

the link is dead now.

But shadowdancing in and out of stealth for 3 (was it more ???) seconds looks OP.

Stealth -> premed -> shadow step CS -> 5 point KS -> vanish -> CS -> 5 point KS -> prep -> premed -> vanish shadow step CS -> 5 point KS -> shadowdance stealth Garrote -> unstealth -> shadowdance stealth part 2 -> CS -> unstealth -> KS -> shadowdance stealth 3 (is there time for this ????) -> KS + shadowstep ???? ========> PROFIT

Would be the ultimate stunlock build :)

Knowing Blizz they won't make it too easy for rogues, so maybe every class gets more stun resist abilities ??? Everyone would get more stamina as well. I'm guessing another complete rebuild of all (or at least some) skills.

Ming has an article on it on GR with most of the talents described pretty well if you can't find a link.

NVM, they are listed here:

http://deathknight.info/

Anyways, I'm wondering how the CD change is going to be. I've heard a lot of people suggest CD be affected by resilience. Blizz always seem to choose the expansions to put in player feedback (there's the qwhole stun and fear resist turning into reduced duration thing, too).

Edited, Jun 13th 2008 1:21pm by Kavekk

so a few questions

-devious poisons: if that goes to 100%, it says "when the target is healed or cured, the poison affects the healer"

does that mean self-dispelling cripply completely impossible? o.O?

-throwing spec: interrupt the target for 3 seconds? basically just gives a ******** version of the pvp glove ability? =\

-the new cheat death: broken as ****? setting you at 10% of max hp is a huge buff, think thats gonna stay? lol

-shadow dance: anyone else only see that being useful for ambush or different openers? maybe the rebirth of weapon swap macros for hemo/ambush?

-wrongfully accused: think that includes focus targets? and what if i see an attack coming, if i untarget itll proc it? sounds confusing

Yeah, all classes are getting those same kind of changes.

Do not forget that many classes are getting more anti-cc, including Shamans (who are one of the weakest against CC) and perhaps Warriors with Bladestorm (not sure if it will be effective against stun).

Also, keep in mind about the diminishing returns on stuns in pvp. By your third stealth in shadowdance, it will probably last for only 1 second. Keep in mind the "Cheap Shot - "Awards 2 combo points" removed from description" part mentioned in wotlk wiki. If CS no longer gives out 2 combo points, that reduces the ability to stun lock a bit more.

I could imagine the:
Stealth > Premed > CS > Backstab > KS > Shadowdance > Rupture > Hemo > ......

actually, it is (or at least it is according to the calc i use). i hadnt noticed that before.

i wonder if thats blizzards way of removing RNG-style effects from having so much influence in game.

Rogue Talent info

Riposte's Disarm will be replaced with 20% atk speed reduction for 30 sec?
Not sure how I feel about that (not that I've spec'd for it in forever, but it was fun when I had it)...

Looks like Cheat Death is being changed from "completely avoiding the attack" to "the attack will instead reduce you to 10%", which makes me wonder if it will bump you up from <10% to 10% when it kicks in... I guess this is probably going to pan out as a nerf, but more so in PvE than in PvP (ex. when you pull aggro during a boss fight who hits for more than 10% of your total health, it won't be as good)


Wrongfully Accused (and Shadow Dance if they keep it) will probably still keep Subtlety as our PvP tree... Shadow Dance is probably going to be nerfed, because in its current form its immensely better than Vanish (which requires a reagent and has a much longer cooldown even when you upgrade it with talents). I imagine they may change it to only 2 re-stealths and/or a longer cooldown.

I love Murder Spree, reminds me of Teleport Flurry from X-Men Legends (Bamph around the room repeatedly, hitting everyone), I was really hoping the Combat tree would get another area attack =)

MN has been in PvP for those of us that know how to make macros.

You'll still need to use the Macro, since MN/Wound now share the same 2nd effect.

Still, being able to use Instant/Deadly on MH and have Wound/Crippling as well as MN/Crippling on your offhand...

Good dps increase. Envenom being a realistic pvp finisher. A pain in the *** to dispel all those poisons (even more so with the talent that makes poison jump to the dispeller!).

Yeah. Daggers are back.



20% slow for 30seconds > 6 second disarm imo.

Er... why would you double up on crippling like that? To what end?

As I said, Instant on your mind hand, which double up as Deadly... and then 2 offhand, one with Wound and one with Mind Numbing. The same macro that allow us to swap weapon and keep mind numbing can be used here as well. You'll have 4 poisons up on the same target and you can simply not use Mind Numbing if you're fighting a non-caster.

I don't really see any reason not to do this. Heck, with a +25% proc rate, a 30% anti-dispel rate, if you can get 2 stack of 5 poison (DP/wound), the druid might as well not bother casting Abolish Poison, they're not going away. A Cold Blood/Envenom with Find Weakness up and a couple of Bloodthirst will be a Plate killer on top of giving you a full S&D (assuming cut to the chase is part of the pvp build, it might not be).


And yes, Riposte will still be bad. I'm just disagreeing that it's 'nerf'.



Edited, Jun 18th 2008 8:59pm by Tyrandor

Not instant, mind numbing. DoTs are such a headache when they apply to anything you hit.

Wound MH mind Numbing OH.

BTW, Ri[poste slwos ATATACK SPEED, not run speed XD

Edited, Jun 19th 2008 3:07am by Kavekk