It would appear that totems are going physical in WotLK.
Blue
This means you can drop them even when silenced.
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Hear that dribbling sound?
It's my cup, running over.
It's my cup, running over.
Koraa did an Ollie joke thats awesome.
If this change goes into affect I must say that is pretty sweet, but I really hope that totems are not Blizzards major concern on how to change/buff the class unless they really add some crazy totem spells for us to use.
If this change goes into affect I must say that is pretty sweet, but I really hope that totems are not Blizzards major concern on how to change/buff the class unless they really add some crazy totem spells for us to use.
jmfmb wrote:
If this change goes into affect I must say that is pretty sweet, but I really hope that totems are not Blizzards major concern on how to change/buff the class unless they really add some crazy totem spells for us to use.
That's my major concern. Of all the problems Shaman have--totems being stationary, totems dying too easily, lack of CC, lack of mobility, lack of resistance to CC, no spell pushback resistance for Elemental, no damage mitigation beyond armor/resilliance, etc.--this is the first buff we hear about?
Not that I am complaining in any capacity whatsoever. Please don't misunderstand me. This would be an absolutely amazing and completely welcome change if it goes through... it just kind of came out of left field, and it raises a few red flags in my mind if they are trying to balance us around our totems.
That's pretty exciting news, if it means we'll be able to drop totes while silenced. Just a few more logical changes and they'll really be on the right track...
I want 'Shamanistic Grip', "Allows the Shaman to hold a two-handed weapon in the MAIN HAND but forfeits the ability to Dual-Wield". 2H + Shield is a nice combo for Enhance PvP.
On the totem subject.... well it's nice I guess. While we're being focused we can still buff our group! On a car with two square wheels, one triangular wheel, one round wheel, and no steering wheel...
It's like... ok, I'll take it, because it's better than a kick in the nuts. But when I have to use 'kick in the nuts' as my baseline for comparison, there's a lot more work to be done.
Edited, Jun 10th 2008 11:56am by Sinstralis
On the totem subject.... well it's nice I guess. While we're being focused we can still buff our group! On a car with two square wheels, one triangular wheel, one round wheel, and no steering wheel...
"Shaman: Tires will now be constructed of solid rubber instead of air-filled, reducing vulnerability to unexpected punctures."
It's like... ok, I'll take it, because it's better than a kick in the nuts. But when I have to use 'kick in the nuts' as my baseline for comparison, there's a lot more work to be done.
Edited, Jun 10th 2008 11:56am by Sinstralis
Sinstralis wrote:
It's like... ok, I'll take it, because it's better than a kick in the nuts. But when I have to use 'kick in the nuts' as my baseline for comparison, there's a lot more work to be done.
Next blue post: Level 80 spell: Bloodlust Rank 2. Allows the Shaman to cast Bloodlust even when dead.
And thus Shaman earn their place in level 80 5v5 arena teams.
Edited, Jun 10th 2008 12:50pm by Gaudion
You know.... I wish we could drop totems while feared. I mean, if you think about it we should be able to kind of. If I was literally running away in fear, I'd be dropping totems. Maybe they should change fear mechanics so you can still do buffs/instant heals while feared since you would be doing that while running away. This would definitely improve shamans in pvp and arenas where we could drop tremor totem while feared and save our group. It'd probably make druids even more op with all their instant heals though. :( Sucks how any reasonable buff to any other healers ends up buffing druids even more.
Gaudion wrote:
That's my major concern. Of all the problems Shaman have--totems being stationary,
Really shouldn't be a problem in any situation. With how much more significant shaman buffs are and how much harder they are to dispel (i.e. 1.5s GCD or a swing timer) than other buffs (spamming purge/dispel magic gets rid of 2 buffs at once), along with the range on them, I don't see it as an issue. However:
Gaudion wrote:
totems dying too easily,
This I can sort-of agree with. There needs to be a mechanic that allows totems to have the same effect as "resistance to dispel effects" as priests and paladins get on their buffs, or totem health should be increased (which I don't think is the right answer).
Gaudion wrote:
lack of CC,
For elemental, yes, I agree. Resto should not need CC, nor should enhancement, IMO. Enhancement should get a snare/root break instead, much like CloS.
Gaudion wrote:
lack of mobility,
See previous statement.
Gaudion wrote:
lack of resistance to CC,
Not many classes have resistance to CC. Shamans actually have more than most with Grounding Totem.
Gaudion wrote:
no spell pushback resistance for Elemental,
PvP set bonus.
Gaudion wrote:
no damage mitigation beyond armor/resilliance, etc.
Warriors, druids, hunters.
Gaudion wrote:
--this is the first buff we hear about?
Not that I am complaining in any capacity whatsoever. Please don't misunderstand me. This would be an absolutely amazing and completely welcome change if it goes through... it just kind of came out of left field, and it raises a few red flags in my mind if they are trying to balance us around our totems.
Not that I am complaining in any capacity whatsoever. Please don't misunderstand me. This would be an absolutely amazing and completely welcome change if it goes through... it just kind of came out of left field, and it raises a few red flags in my mind if they are trying to balance us around our totems.
I don't see them as balancing shamans around totems.
What I really saw this post as was one of the Blizzard posters throwing the shamans a bone (for once, though most shamans on the oboards are whiny ******** and letting them know that they are thinking about ways to improve the class in PvP.
An interesting thought I just had was if Blizzard makes totems physical, can a shaman drop a quick Grounding totem as Aran CSs the raid to grab the poly from someone?
Interrupting his drinking ftw?
Overlord Theophany wrote:
Gaudion wrote:
That's my major concern. Of all the problems Shaman have--totems being stationary,
Really shouldn't be a problem in any situation. With how much more significant shaman buffs are and how much harder they are to dispel (i.e. 1.5s GCD or a swing timer) than other buffs (spamming purge/dispel magic gets rid of 2 buffs at once), along with the range on them, I don't see it as an issue.
Of course you don't see it as an issue. You play a Rogue.
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Gaudion wrote:
totems dying too easily,
This I can sort-of agree with. There needs to be a mechanic that allows totems to have the same effect as "resistance to dispel effects" as priests and paladins get on their buffs, or totem health should be increased (which I don't think is the right answer).
Killing a totem is synonomous with dispelling it. I've suggested both options you presented there before, and honestly, I don't care which it is, or even if it's neither. But something needs to be done to improve totem survival parallel to general dispel resistance. Priests, Paladins, and Druids can't get their buffs wanded off or removed by a level 1, and barring WF to a melee, none of their buffs are any less significant.
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Gaudion wrote:
lack of CC,
For elemental, yes, I agree. Resto should not need CC, nor should enhancement, IMO. Enhancement should get a snare/root break instead, much like CloS.
I'm not quite sure how you reason that CC would be any more "balanced" in the hands of Elemental as opposed to Resto or Enhancement. That's like saying a Balance Druid should have Entangling Roots and Cyclone but a Resto or Feral Druid shouldn't.
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Gaudion wrote:
lack of resistance to CC,
Not many classes have resistance to CC. Shamans actually have more than most with Grounding Totem.
Grounding Totem is some, but it's definitely not "more than most".
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Gaudion wrote:
no spell pushback resistance for Elemental,
PvP set bonus.
Yes, you're absolutely right. Elemental Shaman should have to wait until level 70 and honor grind for a four-piece set bonus to get 20% less pushback resistance than every other caster can talent for in the first half of their respective trees. Whatever was I thinking?
Quote:
Gaudion wrote:
no damage mitigation beyond armor/resilliance, etc.
Warriors, druids, hunters.
The difference being that all three of those classes can relieve pressure on themselves through stuns, fears, CC's, roots, traps, silences... did I forget anything? Shaman are completely incapable of relieving any and all pressure applied to them; they require a teammate to do so.
Quote:
I don't see them as balancing shamans around totems.
What I really saw this post as was one of the Blizzard posters throwing the shamans a bone (for once, though most shamans on the oboards are whiny ******** and letting them know that they are thinking about ways to improve the class in PvP.
What I really saw this post as was one of the Blizzard posters throwing the shamans a bone (for once, though most shamans on the oboards are whiny ******** and letting them know that they are thinking about ways to improve the class in PvP.
I was just making an observation. All I'm saying is that if they do intend to re-evaluate the totem mechanic and use that as an avenue to attempt to make us more capable in X, Y, or Z situation, it would help if they re-evaluated some of the other issues with totems. For example, the ease with which they are dispatched, as I addressed earlier.
Edited, Jun 10th 2008 7:01pm by Gaudion
THANK YOU!
I've never understood why I can't drop a piece of wood when silenced.
I've never understood why I can't drop a piece of wood when silenced.
Gaudion wrote:
Quote:
Gaudion wrote:
lack of CC,
For elemental, yes, I agree. Resto should not need CC, nor should enhancement, IMO. Enhancement should get a snare/root break instead, much like CloS.
I'm not quite sure how you reason that CC would be any more "balanced" in the hands of Elemental as opposed to Resto or Enhancement. That's like saying a Balance Druid should have Entangling Roots and Cyclone but a Resto or Feral Druid shouldn't.
Elemental needs CC to make themselves more viable in 2v2 and 3v3, something that resto doesn't need. With a snare break a la CloS (i.e. short cooldown, duration-based allowing travel to a target), enhancement would become much more viable.
Gaudion wrote:
Quote:
Gaudion wrote:
lack of resistance to CC,
Not many classes have resistance to CC. Shamans actually have more than most with Grounding Totem.
Grounding Totem is some, but it's definitely not "more than most".
So what classes have "resistance to CC" other than rogues and druids? Every other class has a trinket, and that's about it.
Of course there are racials, but you can hardly count those as they're not class-based.
Gaudion wrote:
Quote:
Gaudion wrote:
no spell pushback resistance for Elemental,
PvP set bonus.
Yes, you're absolutely right. Elemental Shaman should have to wait until level 70 and honor grind for a four-piece set bonus to get 20% less pushback resistance than every other caster can talent for in the first half of their respective trees. Whatever was I thinking?
I was just saying that you can get a pushback reduction, not that you shouldn't have it talented.
Gaudion wrote:
Quote:
Gaudion wrote:
no damage mitigation beyond armor/resilliance, etc.
Warriors, druids, hunters.
The difference being that all three of those classes can relieve pressure on themselves through stuns, fears, CC's, roots, traps, silences... did I forget anything? Shaman are completely incapable of relieving any and all pressure applied to them; they require a teammate to do so.
Earth Shield, Shamanistic Rage. Something no other class has that relieves quite a bit of pressure for a fully-geared shaman. I'll freely admit that elemental is weaker in this area.
Gaudion wrote:
[quote]I don't see them as balancing shamans around totems.
What I really saw this post as was one of the Blizzard posters throwing the shamans a bone (for once, though most shamans on the oboards are whiny ******** and letting them know that they are thinking about ways to improve the class in PvP.
What I really saw this post as was one of the Blizzard posters throwing the shamans a bone (for once, though most shamans on the oboards are whiny ******** and letting them know that they are thinking about ways to improve the class in PvP.
I was just making an observation. All I'm saying is that if they do intend to re-evaluate the totem mechanic and use that as an avenue to attempt to make us more capable in X, Y, or Z situation, it would help if they re-evaluated some of the other issues with totems. For example, the ease with which they are dispatched, as I addressed earlier.[/quote]
I completely agree.
Overlord Theophany wrote:
Gaudion wrote:
Quote:
Gaudion wrote:
lack of CC,
For elemental, yes, I agree. Resto should not need CC, nor should enhancement, IMO. Enhancement should get a snare/root break instead, much like CloS.
I'm not quite sure how you reason that CC would be any more "balanced" in the hands of Elemental as opposed to Resto or Enhancement. That's like saying a Balance Druid should have Entangling Roots and Cyclone but a Resto or Feral Druid shouldn't.
Elemental needs CC to make themselves more viable in 2v2 and 3v3, something that resto doesn't need. With a snare break a la CloS (i.e. short cooldown, duration-based allowing travel to a target), enhancement would become much more viable.
And again, I'm really just not sure how it is that you've reached that conclusion.
Rogues and Warriors are both melee DPS with every tool an Enhancement Shaman has and more, yet they have CC. The only thing an Enhancement Shaman has on them is Purge. So why not CC?
Resto Druids can root and CC the crap out of attackers, and Priests can at least Psychic Scream when they're not shielding. Might have something to do with the fact that they're so popular and dominant in the arena; they rank higher than Resto Shaman in 2's in general, and while the Shaman's strongest (and only) combo with a Warrior is good, Warrior/Druid is even better. Good as they are in 2's, they're still only third best out of three, and they have an extremely restricted list of partners they synergize with in any bracket. So... why not CC?
Elemental... well... I dunno. They already hit like a mac truck. Why do you think they deserve CC and not the other two?
Quote:
Gaudion wrote:
Quote:
Gaudion wrote:
lack of resistance to CC,
Not many classes have resistance to CC. Shamans actually have more than most with Grounding Totem.
Grounding Totem is some, but it's definitely not "more than most".
So what classes have "resistance to CC" other than rogues and druids? Every other class has a trinket, and that's about it.
Of course there are racials, but you can hardly count those as they're not class-based.
TBW, Berserker Rage, Death Wish, Ice Block (removes everything), Felhunters can eat magic CC... you could make a short list of classes that don't have a way to deal with at least one type of CC, but saying Shaman have "more than most", especially with the extremely unreliable Tremor Totem, is an exaggeration. What we have is a one, non-AoE spell intercept every 15 seconds, assuming we're even able to cast it. And for that matter, as Grounding Totem is best used as targetted lay (I.E. you lay it while that Warlock is winding up his fear, doing it beforehand and relying on the buff is just asking to get it destroyed and wasted), you could even resonably compare it to Counter Spell and other interrupts.
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I was just saying that you can get a pushback reduction, not that you shouldn't have it talented.
Then you should have said so in the first place. Because it looks like you're just trying to be right, as always.
Quote:
Gaudion wrote:
Quote:
Gaudion wrote:
no damage mitigation beyond armor/resilliance, etc.
Warriors, druids, hunters.
The difference being that all three of those classes can relieve pressure on themselves through stuns, fears, CC's, roots, traps, silences... did I forget anything? Shaman are completely incapable of relieving any and all pressure applied to them; they require a teammate to do so.
Earth Shield, Shamanistic Rage. Something no other class has that relieves quite a bit of pressure for a fully-geared shaman. I'll freely admit that elemental is weaker in this area.
Earth Shield is not a "pressure relief". It's a triggered, reactive heal, but it's still following the Resto Shaman's MO: heal through it. You're still taking the full brunt of any assault leveraged against you with no breather to get a heal off unmolested, escape, or temporarily prevent incoming damage. It's also woefully simple to dispel; you let me know how much relief you feel from Earth Shield when a Hunter's drawing an outline of Orion on your face or that Spriest is melting it.
Shamanistic Rage... yeah. Can't argue that, but it's only available to one of three specs, and only for 15 seconds every two minutes. Not anywhere near comparable to a Priest's constant shielding, Druid CC and kiting, Rogue's and Warrior's frequent stuns, etc.
Edited, Jun 10th 2008 11:28pm by Gaudion
OMG, yet another thread derailed by Theo going OT and starting an argument...
I think this is a great change, It won't be enough to "make me stay" by itself, but with a few more tweaks we could actually be fun for PvP again. I hope they consider making totems HP scale with levels now, or name totems so that pet macros cant 1 shot them...
I think this is a great change, It won't be enough to "make me stay" by itself, but with a few more tweaks we could actually be fun for PvP again. I hope they consider making totems HP scale with levels now, or name totems so that pet macros cant 1 shot them...
yes his need to be noticed and more important, right was fun at 1st now its just seems has a compulsion of some sort to do everything in his power(how ever weak it is) to make sure he is correct...he will argue a black crow is white if it makes him feel in charge. Just get over yourself, its pathetic.
Edited, Jun 11th 2008 3:42pm by redbarronthesecond
Edited, Jun 11th 2008 3:42pm by redbarronthesecond
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