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Hit cap vs Haste vs Crit?Follow

#27 Jun 12 2008 at 10:24 AM Rating: Good
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does this completely change the requirements one would need for kara?

No. The suggested, entry-level stats for early raiding haven't changed. Most of the needed AP comes from Agi bonuses on your gear without having to gem/enchant for it (same goes for stam). If you are gearing wisely, both AP and Stam shouldn't really be problematic until you near the hit "cap". 1300+ AP is only assuming you have a fairly good Hit rating (over 200) which should be easily obtainable if you are gearing properly.
#28 Jun 12 2008 at 3:31 PM Rating: Decent
Been doing some reading every where and I found this on wiki
Agi

So I really dont get where people get the fact that 1 agi is 2 atp, if you can clear this up for me its appriciated.

Now what Im really wondering is this, im based on high white damage dps, dont need no fancy crits and dont need no dodge (because im not a tanking the mob !) so if I want my white damage to be high and steady then I would only asume I go for ATP and not the AGI.

I could be wrong but you really need to explain me how 1 agi becomes 2 atp. So unless its true what wiki says. For pure flatline dps ATP is the best....

If this is wrong proof me otherwise...
#29 Jun 12 2008 at 4:12 PM Rating: Good
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1 Agi = 1 AP
True story.

Quote:
...so if I want my white damage to be high and steady then I would only asume I go for ATP and not the AGI.

The point of the conversation is that gemming and enchanting for only AP is an inefficient use of bonuses. Agi scales far better than AP and has tangential benefits. Find a short and simple explanation of stat in gear interactions at Elitist Jerks. There is plenty of data to support the Hit > Agi > Crit/AP paradigm for combat rogues.

This game is, mechanically, all about interactive mathematics and gearing solely for AP gimps your effectiveness in a raid. Sure, you don't need to tank mobs (usually), but dodge works on other things as well (certain AOE anyone?) helping your overall survivability. Crits are part of your overall DPS (and I'm not talking about 5k Mut crits, just run of the mill auto crits), without them you are significantly gimping your output. Etc...
#30 Jun 12 2008 at 11:54 PM Rating: Decent
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So would this be the right way to gem?

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Lightbringer&n=Zahia

Im still looking to upgrade some of my gear so excuse the items with str on them :)
#31 Jun 13 2008 at 12:07 AM Rating: Decent
I think at your point you shouldnt be worried about gemming...

If I was you I would stuff those slots with low budget agi gems unless you want to unlock an buff but in this case its not really worth it
#32 Jun 13 2008 at 12:46 AM Rating: Decent
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I thought it would be a good idea to gem my helm with the good ones because i thought it was the best pre raid one there is untill kara?

My bad if it isnt :) as for the rest of my gear i gemmed for hit because its so anoying missing mobs and it has increased my Dps by a fair amount was about 290 on OL bosses now some were around 380+
#33 Jun 13 2008 at 2:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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bloodgen wrote:
So would this be the right way to gem?

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Lightbringer&n=Zahia

Im still looking to upgrade some of my gear so excuse the items with str on them :)

No, that's not.

Get Helm of the Claw, put a RED in the meta, and switch out two of your gems for agi/stam, while keeping your red sockets agi/hit for hit socket bonuses, and ignoring all others.

You should never be using a blue or red gem until you're hit capped. Well, you should never be using a blue gem period, as stam does nothing for DPS.

The only reason you socket anything except hit is because you're at hit cap or you need to activate a meta gem or a hit socket bonus.

Take my gear for example; on T6 gloves, I put a hit gem in because the socket bonus is next to worthless, and I'm still not at 343 hit (I count that as hit cap because I use hit food).

In my boots, I put a purple gem and a agi/hit gem in to activate the socket bonus, which is +3 hit. Reason being is that I have no other decent blue sockets in my gear for socket bonuses (the only other is in my belt and that's a 4 stam socket bonus), thus I socketed it there, as I need 2 purples to activate my meta gem (RED requires 2x red, 2x blue, 2x yellow... Yellow rogues have in spades, and purple counts for both, ergo only 2 purple gems needed, the rest can be yellow hit gems).

As you can see, the other purple gem is in my helm to get the 4 agi socket bonus; that's the second best place to put a blue gem in my gear.

Every other socket is hit.
#34 Jun 13 2008 at 4:13 AM Rating: Decent
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Rate up m8, thats some handy info and some really nice gear :)
#35 Jun 13 2008 at 5:41 AM Rating: Decent
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so now that i know that agility is needed to not only get ap
my next question is
would it make sense to replace a lets say a 12 ap gem with a 6 agility gem?
i get that agility is better, but would it be worth giving up the AP i already have for it?
and im assuming that if it is true that 1agi=2ap, then i geuss it is a good idea to use agility

any help appreciated
#36 Jun 13 2008 at 9:30 AM Rating: Good
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2,680 posts
Quote:
would it make sense to replace a lets say a 12 ap gem with a 6 agility gem?

Yes if you are hit-capped. Yes if you are not, but a +hit might be better.
#37 Jun 13 2008 at 12:14 PM Rating: Good
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drewbeeone wrote:
so now that i know that agility is needed to not only get ap
my next question is
would it make sense to replace a lets say a 12 ap gem with a 6 agility gem?
i get that agility is better, but would it be worth giving up the AP i already have for it?
and im assuming that if it is true that 1agi=2ap, then i geuss it is a good idea to use agility

any help appreciated

No.

For your gear, replace the following:

Helm: replace everything with 6 hit.
Shoulders: 6 hit x2.
Belt: 8 hit x2.
Boots: 8 hit x2.

That would be optimizing your gems.

Also, you need some enchants. Helm (from CE rep), shoulder, chest, boots, and legs.

Refer to the Rogue Compendium's "PvE Gemming/Enchanting" thread for more info.

I wouldn't go all-out with your current gear, but you do have quite a bit of room for improvement.
#38 Jun 13 2008 at 1:01 PM Rating: Decent
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755 posts
EJ has it that it's ok to socket AP at fresh 70- early Kara. I might try to fish up a quote, if I can find it.
#39 Jun 13 2008 at 1:14 PM Rating: Good
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2,680 posts
Agi increases AP, Crit, dodge, armor, and more importantly Hit.* I can see no normal circumstance where gemming AP is smarter than Hit or Agi for a raiding PvE-focused rogue.

But then again, I'm not all that bright. So....


*edit: I meant to say "is arguably more important than Hit" but had edited out the supporting argument without fixing it. Sorry folks. Wow, time for more tea! I r dumberer nowz!

Edited, Jun 13th 2008 3:14pm by TherionSaysWhat
#40 Jun 13 2008 at 1:32 PM Rating: Decent
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TherionSaysWhat wrote:
Agi increases AP, Crit, dodge, armor, and more importantly Hit. I can see no normal circumstance where gemming AP is smarter than Hit or Agi for a raiding PvE-focused rogue.

But then again, I'm not all that bright. So....

Err, Agi doesn't increase hit.

You probably didn't mean it that way, but that's how I read it.
#41 Jun 13 2008 at 1:39 PM Rating: Decent
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177 posts
The One and Only Eschatologist wrote:
EJ has it that it's ok to socket AP at fresh 70- early Kara. I might try to fish up a quote, if I can find it.

Because in 10 mans you're not guaranteed to get kings.
#42 Jun 13 2008 at 2:12 PM Rating: Good
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2,680 posts
Quote:
Err, Agi doesn't increase hit.

I should L2proof-read.
#43 Jun 14 2008 at 5:21 AM Rating: Decent
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84 posts
Quote:
No.

For your gear, replace the following:

Helm: replace everything with 6 hit.
Shoulders: 6 hit x2.
Belt: 8 hit x2.
Boots: 8 hit x2.

That would be optimizing your gems.

Also, you need some enchants. Helm (from CE rep), shoulder, chest, boots, and legs.

Refer to the Rogue Compendium's "PvE Gemming/Enchanting" thread for more info.

I wouldn't go all-out with your current gear, but you do have quite a bit of room for improvement.


wow that much hit? whats a good comparison for agility and hit? about 325agi to 200hit? because by replacing the gems with hit thats about what ill end up with.
#44 Jun 14 2008 at 12:12 PM Rating: Decent
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13,048 posts
drewbeeone wrote:
Quote:
No.

For your gear, replace the following:

Helm: replace everything with 6 hit.
Shoulders: 6 hit x2.
Belt: 8 hit x2.
Boots: 8 hit x2.

That would be optimizing your gems.

Also, you need some enchants. Helm (from CE rep), shoulder, chest, boots, and legs.

Refer to the Rogue Compendium's "PvE Gemming/Enchanting" thread for more info.

I wouldn't go all-out with your current gear, but you do have quite a bit of room for improvement.


wow that much hit? whats a good comparison for agility and hit? about 325agi to 200hit? because by replacing the gems with hit thats about what ill end up with.

Hit is the single highest DPS stat when socketed properly.

Read the PvE Gemming/Enchanting guide in the Rogue Compendium for more info.
#45 Jun 24 2008 at 8:41 AM Rating: Decent
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84 posts
well i did it, and i can happily say that i now have 220 hit and 1300 AP due to my agility
pretty good for no kara gear lol
#46 Jun 24 2008 at 11:45 AM Rating: Decent
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1,039 posts
i have a few questions now that im reading all this.

as a kara/gruuls/mag rogue, is it better to just socket pure hit rating (not including metagem activation reqs). im at 200 hit now w/only my yellow sockets as hit.

i know higher tiers you want more hit rating, just wondering how much it matters in kara.

also, for some reason my DPS spreadsheet says RED metagem is not as good as the 26 ap + 8% move speed one (i think thats the stats on it) that you buy w/spirit shards.
i know thats a good gem for pvp, but comments anyone?
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