About shiv...Follow

Okay, so I recently came across a rather odd fellow. A rogue who does nothing but shiv and envenom...

Now, for the longest time, The only time I would ever use shiv was to keep my deadly poison going if the time on it was running low and to deal see what thi sguy does is very odd to me. His DPS is quite a bit below mine due to gear (his white dmg is abouy 8% below mine), and his overall dmg is significantly below mine due to his attack choice (he seems to keep SnD up constantly so at least there's that)

So here's my real question, is there ever a case in which the damage dealt by shiv/SnD/envenom setup will out-DPS a good SS/SnD/Rupture setup?

The only way I could imagine it doing even slightly better is against a boss with an ungodly massive amount of armor even with 5 sunders... Which confuses me as to why my new class leader fights like an idiot.

Your thoughts on the subject are very much appreciated.

Well, those guys aren't "immune" so to say, they just have a very durable mana-shield which needs to be burnt down before any damage can be dealt to them (they have like 1k life)

No, it's mathematically impossible.

Even with some retarded shiv/poison spec, it's literally one of the dumbest and worst DPS builds possible.

How did this guy become class leader?

Even If he was BFF's with the GM no intelligent GM would put such a scrub ina high positon.

Has he been doing this or is he just experimenting?

ToA is actually superior to S2 MH even in a shiv build, but...

No, I don't think it's too early to lecture him. I think you can bring it up in a polite way instead of how I handle my guild (we got a balance druid that didn't have Imp FF and I flipped a **** on him, calling him awful, etc), but if it's improving the guild, it's improving the guild. Making bad players better should earn you points in the leadership's eyes.

Great idea if only the rogue in question wasn't a class leader. He obviously has some favor with the leadership and also I doubt your raid leader would understand if you just started shouting theorycrafting at him. This situation is going to take some delicate discussion but I think talking to the guy about his attack choices would be your best bet. If you understand his reasoning for choosing this then you might be able to explain on his own terms why standard attack rotations are better.

Otherwise just continue to blow him up on the charts and see how the leadership reacts.

if they're not going to take what you have into consideration and at least address the situation then maybe you're better off finding a new raid.

I don't think it's worth spamming Shiv just to keep your deadly poison applied. My feeling is that you'd do more damage overall using your energy on your main attacks.

nostra

I don't know about other Mutilate users, but for me shiv is WAY better than SS. With a 1.3 OH, it only costs 33 energy, and is great for adding that last CP to a target to get a +3k crit with Envenom. I have no problem keeping SnD up and Rupture using shiv. Sure, its dmg may be lower, but I am getting about 600 DPS on bosses in Kara. Of course, if you are using swords, definatly SS is MUCH better than shiv.

Armory: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Korgath&n=Arishna

Yea, it kinda is, but I still have 2 greens (just can't fing get rid of those bastards). Just stating my opinion, it seems more Energy efficiant with daggers to use shiv, since I really only lose about 100-200 dmg from not using SS, and my Envenom crits are way higher than my Eviscerate crits ever are. In my opinion the dmg I lose from SS is made up in the increased dmg from Envenom. I'll test it to make sure.

edit: I use Mutilate as a CP generator btw, not shiv. Unless I can't get behind the target, and then I use shiv.

Edited, Jun 20th 2008 5:46pm by ArishnaofBalnazzar

Good point. I'll have to try that.