Blizzard class designer pissing off shaman on the o-boards... Unreal.
A thread asking if people planned to stay with their shaman in WOTLK gets a terse response from a blue. I don't know why they even bother sometimes. They are really just asking for it posting stuff like that on a class forum that has the biggest QQ rep of them all. Anyway, I love how the Class designer patronizingly says "I think you will." but does not elaborate at all - then gets totally destroyed by the shaman community as if he wasn't asking for it...
Someone's comment in the above thread got me checking up on the leaked WotLK talents and spells.
I realize the game is still in alpha development stage, but damn! The other class abilities are pissing me off, especially the Druid ones...they are getting pretty much everything that shaman have been QQ for since TBC came out!
Druid talents
-Typhoon (Rank 1) - "You summon a violent Typhoon that does 530 Nature damage when in contact with hostile targets, knocking them back 5 yards."
Are you freaking kidding me? Shaman have been begging for windshock with a knockback effect for over a year now...
-Berserk - Removes all Stun, Fear, Snare and Movement Impairing Effects and increases your energy regeneration rate by 100% while in Cat form, and increases your total health by 20% while in Bear form. After the effect ends, the health is lost. Effect lasts 20 seconds.
OMG! this is straight up BS! Enhancement shaman have been screaming for Shamanistic Rage to have this effect forever now...
-Owlkin Frenzy - "Attacks done to you while in Moonkin form have a 5/10/15% chance to cause you to go into a Frenzy, increasing your spell haste by 25% and increasing your damage by 10%. Lasts 10 sec."
Oh good, they give boomkins some pushback resist, but keep nerfing elemental over and over? I'm pretty sure Elemental shamans would give their left one to have something like this...
Time to level up my druid I guess...I'm biting my tongue to see what Blizzard leaks for shaman, probably a new frostband icon, or maybe sentry totem rank 2...Honestly, it's like they steal all the good ideas proposed for shaman fixes and give them straight to druids. Oh and the warlock talents make me want to vomit, but there is enough there for a whole new thread, as if that class wasn't OP enough already.
Edited, Jun 8th 2008 10:47pm by Taurrus
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- Unbelievable! GG Blizz...as always, as always.
Unbelievable! GG Blizz...as always, as always.Follow
I wouldn't start worrying until we actually see some info on WotLK Shaman talents--once we do, feel free to whine as much as you want.
A lot of the Druid stuff looks very nice, true, but that is also true of the other classes--I was drooling at some of the Warlock abilities. I wouldn't be too surprised if we, too, got some neat abilities, but for now we really don't know enough to make any sort of informed guess about what's going to happen. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if we got a whole range of frost-based abilities to fit the flavor of the expansion...but then, that's just my guess. We really will have to wait and see how it turns out.
A lot of the Druid stuff looks very nice, true, but that is also true of the other classes--I was drooling at some of the Warlock abilities. I wouldn't be too surprised if we, too, got some neat abilities, but for now we really don't know enough to make any sort of informed guess about what's going to happen. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if we got a whole range of frost-based abilities to fit the flavor of the expansion...but then, that's just my guess. We really will have to wait and see how it turns out.
isyris wrote:
Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if we got a whole range of frost-based abilities to fit the flavor of the expansion...
But we're already getting serious frost-based ability buffage:
Shaman
* Ability: Frostbrand Weapon: Rank 6 damage has been increased very slightly.
Sorry couldn't resist :P
Keep in mind pre-TBC (rather, pre-2.0 which was the TBC talent patch) Shamans couldn't DW.
Now Enhancement is one of the most-needed class/spec combos for a raid (every raid pretty much needs at least 1).
Now Enhancement is one of the most-needed class/spec combos for a raid (every raid pretty much needs at least 1).
Yeah I have to admit the blue post is a little bit derisive, but to be honest I'm not surprised the devs are annoyed with the o-board Shaman community. The amount of truly aggressive ******** that goes on there is just distasteful... sure every class whines, but nowhere near the venom of the Shamans.
Now I understand why they're upset, but the o-boards are like a noisy prison cell where the devs occasionally throw back the food slot and listen to whats going on inside. If you imagine each class as a cell in a prison wing, the Shaman cell would sound really, really scary from outside, I know I wouldnt like to stick my head in there when I know the first thing I'll hear is "BLUE!!! OMG WHY DONT YOU BUFF CC N TOTEMZ N MOBILITY YOU MOTHERFU-" and I slam the window shut again. The Rogue cell on the other hand is surprisingly quiet. Funny that ;)
With regards to Shaman propositions being attributed to Druids, I actually completely agree. Cyclone and Typhoon are very well suited to the Shaman lore and would improve the class experience a lot, but Blizzard generally has greater affection for Druids (this really is true, not my ******** here) so there you are. I can only hope that the Shaman trees get a broader utility in WotLK, instead of (what I fear) will be a variety of talents that just increase damage output and leave the class mechanic (and flaws) the same.
This isnt about Shamans alone, it's about every class; the changes we've seen for WotLK really do give each class a new aspect to their playstyle, just like TBC did with the new lvl70 abilities. Shamans didnt get a new aspect last time, they got some crappy spells and Bloodlust, a damage ability. Underpowered, overpowered or 'just fine' doesnt matter, this time around Shamans really do need some new options.
Edited, Jun 9th 2008 12:59am by Sinstralis
Now I understand why they're upset, but the o-boards are like a noisy prison cell where the devs occasionally throw back the food slot and listen to whats going on inside. If you imagine each class as a cell in a prison wing, the Shaman cell would sound really, really scary from outside, I know I wouldnt like to stick my head in there when I know the first thing I'll hear is "BLUE!!! OMG WHY DONT YOU BUFF CC N TOTEMZ N MOBILITY YOU MOTHERFU-" and I slam the window shut again. The Rogue cell on the other hand is surprisingly quiet. Funny that ;)
With regards to Shaman propositions being attributed to Druids, I actually completely agree. Cyclone and Typhoon are very well suited to the Shaman lore and would improve the class experience a lot, but Blizzard generally has greater affection for Druids (this really is true, not my ******** here) so there you are. I can only hope that the Shaman trees get a broader utility in WotLK, instead of (what I fear) will be a variety of talents that just increase damage output and leave the class mechanic (and flaws) the same.
This isnt about Shamans alone, it's about every class; the changes we've seen for WotLK really do give each class a new aspect to their playstyle, just like TBC did with the new lvl70 abilities. Shamans didnt get a new aspect last time, they got some crappy spells and Bloodlust, a damage ability. Underpowered, overpowered or 'just fine' doesnt matter, this time around Shamans really do need some new options.
Edited, Jun 9th 2008 12:59am by Sinstralis
Sinstralis wrote:
The Rogue cell on the other hand is surprisingly quiet. Funny that ;)
Nah, you'd hear, "FIX VANISH YOU MOTHERFU--"
Sinstralis wrote:
but Blizzard generally has greater affection for Druids (this really is true, not my ******** here)
I don't really agree except for the past year or so. Before that, it was "resto or GTFO," same as shamans. Now both classes have three trees that are viable in endgame raiding.
Yeah, shamans could use some sort of CC for elemental and a snare break for enhancement for PvP, but I think the devs are pretty aware of those situations and hopefully will be looking at them.
Also, IMO both shamans and druids are equally as welcomed in raids as druids are, and have pretty much the opposite problem that druids have in PvP: they're extremely viable in 2v2 but have little to no viability as you move to 3v3 and 5v5, where shamans (elemental especially) are very viable in 5v5s and have only decent viability in 2v2s.
Edited, Jun 8th 2008 10:40pm by Theophany
Sinstralis wrote:
Now I understand why they're upset, but the o-boards are like a noisy prison cell where the devs occasionally throw back the food slot and listen to whats going on inside. If you imagine each class as a cell in a prison wing, the Shaman cell would sound really, really scary from outside, I know I wouldnt like to stick my head in there when I know the first thing I'll hear is "BLUE!!! OMG WHY DONT YOU BUFF CC N TOTEMZ N MOBILITY YOU MOTHERFU-" and I slam the window shut again. The Rogue cell on the other hand is surprisingly quiet. Funny that ;)
ROFL...As always Sin, your analogies rule. It's funny cause it's true, although I think shamans might throw things at the bloos too...or maybe try to shank them with a plastic fork or something...
But hey, being ignored by the bloos has it's advantages...The Ollie thread is still going strong!
O-boards wrote:
Hey Ollie! Whats the forecast for shamans in the upcoming expansion?!
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Thanks ollie!
That effing killed me!
Edited, Jun 9th 2008 2:46am by Taurrus
Taurrus wrote:
-Berserk - Removes all Stun, Fear, Snare and Movement Impairing Effects and increases your energy regeneration rate by 100% while in Cat form, and increases your total health by 20% while in Bear form. After the effect ends, the health is lost. Effect lasts 20 seconds.[/i][/Cornflowerblue]
OMG! this is straight up BS! Enhancement shaman have been screaming for Shamanistic Rage to have this effect forever now...
OMG! this is straight up BS! Enhancement shaman have been screaming for Shamanistic Rage to have this effect forever now...
It appears that a TBW-esque ability is going to be standard fare for melee classes come WotLK. Expect Blizzard to either change SR to include those properties outright, or unfortunately, what I'm assuming to be the far more likely outcome, expect to be required to waste a point on "Improved Shamanistic Rage" in order to give it those properties. To not do so would be an extraordinarilly excessive amount of neglect, even for Blizzard given their past transgressions.
At the moment I don't really have a problem with what any other classes may or may not be getting. I'm waiting until I see what Shaman do or do not get before I get outraged at anything in particular.
Sinstralis wrote:
Yeah I have to admit the blue post is a little bit derisive, but to be honest I'm not surprised the devs are annoyed with the o-board Shaman community. The amount of truly aggressive ******** that goes on there is just distasteful... sure every class whines, but nowhere near the venom of the Shamans.
Every relationship is two-sided, and Blizzard has done quite enough on their end to breed hatred in the Shaman community. Without getting into what Blizzard has or hasn't looked into in regards to Shaman, and what they have or have not fixed or given to the class... one of the most basic principles of public relations is to establish a line of open, two-way communication between two parties. Blue presence on the Shaman o-boards has been more sparse than in any other class bar none. They get zero information on where the class is headed, no reaction, no feedback... All they usually get is a rare "We're looking into making Shaman more viable in X..." every couple of months, and that usually results in a "buff" of a slight adjustment on Frostbrand, or some other adjustment in the name of balance with minimal or no impact.
Well...if you look over the history of our patches since say 1.10 or so, can you really blame the majority of shaman?
Blizzard requests class feedback, shamans respond in kind with TONS of great ideas, our patch review comes up and we received a couple of nerfs instead. Then vague promises of things to come pre-TBC, but that there was not time to review the class until after the expansion. Expansion hits, other classes are thrilled...shaman...blah...many reroll.
2.4 patch is pending and Kalgan promises to make enhancement more viable with adjustments to the totem mechanic. Class recieved a significant nerf to elemental + pvp set, enhance is buffed very slightly at the cost of major talent points, resto gets nothing. Shaman proceed to have a hissy fit for about 3 weeks where there were multiple threads that lasted for DAYS with the heading 'kalgan sucks c0c4, etc' - pretty much proving the point that blues never visit the tread. Anyways, it did get pretty ridiculous at times, but I can see why people were pissed. Again another patch failure, again a blue post placating with vague promises of things to come.
Anyways, time will tell, but in the meantime I'll be leveling up my warlock since they are going to totally melt faces in the expansion based on those talents.
Blizzard requests class feedback, shamans respond in kind with TONS of great ideas, our patch review comes up and we received a couple of nerfs instead. Then vague promises of things to come pre-TBC, but that there was not time to review the class until after the expansion. Expansion hits, other classes are thrilled...shaman...blah...many reroll.
2.4 patch is pending and Kalgan promises to make enhancement more viable with adjustments to the totem mechanic. Class recieved a significant nerf to elemental + pvp set, enhance is buffed very slightly at the cost of major talent points, resto gets nothing. Shaman proceed to have a hissy fit for about 3 weeks where there were multiple threads that lasted for DAYS with the heading 'kalgan sucks c0c4, etc' - pretty much proving the point that blues never visit the tread. Anyways, it did get pretty ridiculous at times, but I can see why people were pissed. Again another patch failure, again a blue post placating with vague promises of things to come.
Anyways, time will tell, but in the meantime I'll be leveling up my warlock since they are going to totally melt faces in the expansion based on those talents.
Taurrus wrote:
Blizzard class designer pissing off shaman on the o-boards... Unreal.
A thread asking if people planned to stay with their shaman in WOTLK gets a terse response from a blue. I don't know why they even bother sometimes. They are really just asking for it posting stuff like that on a class forum that has the biggest QQ rep of them all. Anyway, I love how the Class designer patronizingly says "I think you will." but does not elaborate at all - then gets totally destroyed by the shaman community as if he wasn't asking for it...
Someone's comment in the above thread got me checking up on the leaked WotLK talents and spells.
I realize the game is still in alpha development stage, but damn! The other class abilities are pissing me off, especially the Druid ones...they are getting pretty much everything that shaman have been QQ for since TBC came out!
Druid talents
-Typhoon (Rank 1) - "You summon a violent Typhoon that does 530 Nature damage when in contact with hostile targets, knocking them back 5 yards."
Are you freaking kidding me? Shaman have been begging for windshock with a knockback effect for over a year now...
-Berserk - Removes all Stun, Fear, Snare and Movement Impairing Effects and increases your energy regeneration rate by 100% while in Cat form, and increases your total health by 20% while in Bear form. After the effect ends, the health is lost. Effect lasts 20 seconds.
OMG! this is straight up BS! Enhancement shaman have been screaming for Shamanistic Rage to have this effect forever now...
-Owlkin Frenzy - "Attacks done to you while in Moonkin form have a 5/10/15% chance to cause you to go into a Frenzy, increasing your spell haste by 25% and increasing your damage by 10%. Lasts 10 sec."
Oh good, they give boomkins some pushback resist, but keep nerfing elemental over and over? I'm pretty sure Elemental shamans would give their left one to have something like this...
Time to level up my druid I guess...I'm biting my tongue to see what Blizzard leaks for shaman, probably a new frostband icon, or maybe sentry totem rank 2...Honestly, it's like they steal all the good ideas proposed for shaman fixes and give them straight to druids. Oh and the warlock talents make me want to vomit, but there is enough there for a whole new thread, as if that class wasn't OP enough already.
Edited, Jun 8th 2008 10:47pm by Taurrus
A thread asking if people planned to stay with their shaman in WOTLK gets a terse response from a blue. I don't know why they even bother sometimes. They are really just asking for it posting stuff like that on a class forum that has the biggest QQ rep of them all. Anyway, I love how the Class designer patronizingly says "I think you will." but does not elaborate at all - then gets totally destroyed by the shaman community as if he wasn't asking for it...
Someone's comment in the above thread got me checking up on the leaked WotLK talents and spells.
I realize the game is still in alpha development stage, but damn! The other class abilities are pissing me off, especially the Druid ones...they are getting pretty much everything that shaman have been QQ for since TBC came out!
Druid talents
-Typhoon (Rank 1) - "You summon a violent Typhoon that does 530 Nature damage when in contact with hostile targets, knocking them back 5 yards."
Are you freaking kidding me? Shaman have been begging for windshock with a knockback effect for over a year now...
-Berserk - Removes all Stun, Fear, Snare and Movement Impairing Effects and increases your energy regeneration rate by 100% while in Cat form, and increases your total health by 20% while in Bear form. After the effect ends, the health is lost. Effect lasts 20 seconds.
OMG! this is straight up BS! Enhancement shaman have been screaming for Shamanistic Rage to have this effect forever now...
-Owlkin Frenzy - "Attacks done to you while in Moonkin form have a 5/10/15% chance to cause you to go into a Frenzy, increasing your spell haste by 25% and increasing your damage by 10%. Lasts 10 sec."
Oh good, they give boomkins some pushback resist, but keep nerfing elemental over and over? I'm pretty sure Elemental shamans would give their left one to have something like this...
Time to level up my druid I guess...I'm biting my tongue to see what Blizzard leaks for shaman, probably a new frostband icon, or maybe sentry totem rank 2...Honestly, it's like they steal all the good ideas proposed for shaman fixes and give them straight to druids. Oh and the warlock talents make me want to vomit, but there is enough there for a whole new thread, as if that class wasn't OP enough already.
Edited, Jun 8th 2008 10:47pm by Taurrus
WAAAAYYYY too early too tell.
Remember Titan Grip? Yeah, I did, didn't make it. Also, a lot of abilities were drastically altered over the course of the Beta during TBC. Also, Talents have not been added for Shamans yet, neither have new spells, it is IMPOSSIBLE to compare them at this stage.
I don't think the blue post was meant in a derisive way. More like: Since I know what's coming, I think you'll stay.
I see how it can be taken either way but it would be really bad PR to make fun of your pissed off customer.
edit to add: Kinda funny how people on the o-board complain and threaten blizzard that if they don't get some buff they will... play a druid!
Like blizzard care what class we play as long as we pay the 15$/month
Edited, Jun 10th 2008 7:23pm by feelz
I see how it can be taken either way but it would be really bad PR to make fun of your pissed off customer.
edit to add: Kinda funny how people on the o-board complain and threaten blizzard that if they don't get some buff they will... play a druid!
Like blizzard care what class we play as long as we pay the 15$/month
Edited, Jun 10th 2008 7:23pm by feelz
Well...Based on Berserk, Typhoon, and Owlkin Frenzy, assuming they happen for druids;
I will accept nothing less than a shaman CC accessible for all talent specs, a snare break for enhancement, and spell-pushback for elemental, or pushback resistance. No more gimmicky totems, no more group-required buffing spells, i want CC, mobility and pushback for PvP.
I will accept nothing less than a shaman CC accessible for all talent specs, a snare break for enhancement, and spell-pushback for elemental, or pushback resistance. No more gimmicky totems, no more group-required buffing spells, i want CC, mobility and pushback for PvP.
Taurrus wrote:
Well...Based on Berserk, Typhoon, and Owlkin Frenzy, assuming they happen for druids;
I will accept nothing less than a shaman CC accessible for all talent specs, a snare break for enhancement, and spell-pushback for elemental, or pushback resistance. No more gimmicky totems, no more group-required buffing spells, i want CC, mobility and pushback for PvP.
I will accept nothing less than a shaman CC accessible for all talent specs, a snare break for enhancement, and spell-pushback for elemental, or pushback resistance. No more gimmicky totems, no more group-required buffing spells, i want CC, mobility and pushback for PvP.
We all know this. These are known issues, just restating them and dodging the point doesn't make you look any smarter, it just makes you look like more of an ***.
Also, I love how you singled out Druids, since they are our closest cousins, when Warlocks and DKs "appear" to have some pretty OP talents/spells too.
The Warlock talents are nerfbait if I've ever seen it. Cripple alone with its 30yd range, 1.5sec cast and no cooldown is just absolutely ridiculous. There is no way in hell that will even make beta, much less release. CC of that form (spammable, silence, pacify) isn't CC, it is a 1v1 IWIN button, and I'll go on record saying that as a Warlock main.
Demonform for locks isnt that OP either because from what I've seen it's a PvE talent. Now if shifting into Demonform breaks CC then it'll really own face, but until then it's just more soloing PvE damage that we don't need.
And Chaos Bolt having an 8sec cooldown is just stupid, the only time you would ever cast it is versus a Paladin/Priest or maybe a CloS Rogue, and 8sec is too long for it to be useful, as well as being a base 1.5sec cast will make its scaling suck almost as bad as Shadowburn.
The reason he singled out Druids is that they are also a Hybrid class (well, sort of) and they are receiving talents that Shamans really would kill for and would round the class out very well. It's hard to go begging for water for two years when the guy next door keeps getting big tankards of ice-cold beer delivered regularly without even asking or paying. Warlock talents are at least DPS talents for a DPS class, can't argue with that, but the Druid talents all offer wonderful improvements to each role Shamans can perform.
Demonform for locks isnt that OP either because from what I've seen it's a PvE talent. Now if shifting into Demonform breaks CC then it'll really own face, but until then it's just more soloing PvE damage that we don't need.
And Chaos Bolt having an 8sec cooldown is just stupid, the only time you would ever cast it is versus a Paladin/Priest or maybe a CloS Rogue, and 8sec is too long for it to be useful, as well as being a base 1.5sec cast will make its scaling suck almost as bad as Shadowburn.
Quote:
Also, I love how you singled out Druids, since they are our closest cousins
The reason he singled out Druids is that they are also a Hybrid class (well, sort of) and they are receiving talents that Shamans really would kill for and would round the class out very well. It's hard to go begging for water for two years when the guy next door keeps getting big tankards of ice-cold beer delivered regularly without even asking or paying. Warlock talents are at least DPS talents for a DPS class, can't argue with that, but the Druid talents all offer wonderful improvements to each role Shamans can perform.
TheYardstick wrote:
We all know this. These are known issues, just restating them and dodging the point doesn't make you look any smarter, it just makes you look like more of an ***.
Wow...where is this coming from flame-bait? Did you take a page out of the book of Theo? Notice how I said ASSUMING THESE HAPPEN FOR DRUIDS...yes it is early, but my expectations for shaman have been set somewhat higher now that I've seen what other classes may get.
theyardstick wrote:
Also, I love how you singled out Druids, since they are our closest cousins, when Warlocks and DKs "appear" to have some pretty OP talents/spells too.
GG, you said it yourself, do you think perhaps that is because Druids are the other hybrid class in the game...hmmm? I mentioned how OP i thought the Warlock talents were already, but comparing shaman to warlock is apples to oranges. At least there are some similarities between druids and shaman. I have nothing against druids, in fact I envy the talents they appear to be getting in WotLK and I hope shaman get something similar. I'm going to assume you're a Druid main who is pissed off because you think I'm bashing druids? No...I simply what what you've got (or appear to be getting).
Edited, Jun 11th 2008 1:18am by Taurrus
Taurrus wrote:
TheYardstick wrote:
We all know this. These are known issues, just restating them and dodging the point doesn't make you look any smarter, it just makes you look like more of an ***.
Wow...where is this coming from flame-bait? Did you take a page out of the book of Theo? Notice how I said ASSUMING THESE HAPPEN FOR DRUIDS...yes it is early, but my expectations for shaman have been set somewhat higher now that I've seen what other classes may get.
theyardstick wrote:
Also, I love how you singled out Druids, since they are our closest cousins, when Warlocks and DKs "appear" to have some pretty OP talents/spells too.
GG, you said it yourself, do you think perhaps that is because Druids are the other hybrid class in the game...hmmm? I mentioned how OP i thought the Warlock talents were already, but comparing shaman to warlock is apples to oranges. At least there are some similarities between druids and shaman. I have nothing against druids, in fact I envy the talents they appear to be getting in WotLK and I hope shaman get something similar. I'm going to assume you're a Druid main who is pissed off because you think I'm bashing druids? No...I simply what what you've got (or appear to be getting).
Edited, Jun 11th 2008 1:18am by Taurrus
I'm a Shaman, who's had 3 partners quit because of Druid teams in the 2v2 bracket. Honestly, you're calling be flame bait, but I had good reason to assume so since you did not take into consideration other talents. Honestly, I came in here thinking you were just looking for admiration from other posters since many share the same viewpoint, but singling out Druids is just dumb. Sure, they are another hybrid class, but, they are not our biggest competitors. Resto Shaman regularly breaks 2k, as does Resto Druid.
TheYardstick wrote:
I'm a Shaman, who's had 3 partners quit because of Druid teams in the 2v2 bracket.
Good reason to compare the two classes then no?
TheYardstick wrote:
Honestly, you're calling be flame bait, but I had good reason to assume so since you did not take into consideration other talents.
No, I did not. As an enhancement & sometimes elemental shaman I looked for talents I would want.
TheYardstick wrote:
Honestly, I came in here thinking you were just looking for admiration from other posters since many share the same viewpoint, but singling out Druids is just dumb. Sure, they are another hybrid class, but, they are not our biggest competitors. Resto Shaman regularly breaks 2k, as does Resto Druid.
I don't particularly care for anyone's admiration. If I did I would probably kiss more people's asses on the forum for rate-ups...but I would rather state my opinion - right or wrong. What is our biggest competitor then pray tell? You did just post you lost 3 partners to DRUID TEAMS for 2v2. Druids regularly post higher rankings overall and are far more represented in all arena brackets, so why not make the comparison?
Taurrus wrote:
TheYardstick wrote:
I'm a Shaman, who's had 3 partners quit because of Druid teams in the 2v2 bracket.
Good reason to compare the two classes then no?
TheYardstick wrote:
Honestly, you're calling be flame bait, but I had good reason to assume so since you did not take into consideration other talents.
No, I did not. As an enhancement & sometimes elemental shaman I looked for talents I would want.
TheYardstick wrote:
Honestly, I came in here thinking you were just looking for admiration from other posters since many share the same viewpoint, but singling out Druids is just dumb. Sure, they are another hybrid class, but, they are not our biggest competitors. Resto Shaman regularly breaks 2k, as does Resto Druid.
I don't particularly care for anyone's admiration. If I did I would probably kiss more people's asses on the forum for rate-ups...but I would rather state my opinion - right or wrong. What is our biggest competitor then pray tell? You did just post you lost 3 partners to DRUID TEAMS for 2v2. Druids regularly post higher rankings overall and are far more represented in all arena brackets, so why not make the comparison?
Resto druid and resto shaman fill very different roles as a healer in arena.
If you don't know that, it's time to go back and learn your class mechanics.
Overlord Theophany wrote:
Rogue and Shaman fill very different roles on the shaman forum.
If you don't know that it's time to go back to the rogue forum.
Overlord Theophany wrote:
Resto druid and resto shaman fill very different roles as a healer in arena.
If you don't know that, it's time to go back and learn your class mechanics.
If you don't know that, it's time to go back and learn your class mechanics.
That's... really not true at all. Resto Druids and Resto Shaman are both there to do the same thing: keep their teams (including themselves) alive while their teammates DPS the opponents. They just do it in different ways, bring different "fringe benefits" to the team, and, ultimately, they do so to a varying degree of effectiveness skewed sharply in favor of the Druid.
Now if you wanted to talk Restokin, then yes, I would absolutely agree with you... they function much differently than a "pure" healer would, be it Druid, Shaman, or other.
On the topic of the OP: I'm not defending anything Taurrus has said in this thread, but as a Resto Shaman I can definitely sympathize with his position in the original post. Based on the leaked talents we have to look at so far, some classes like Druids and Rogues are slated to become ridiclously OP by virtue of new tools, while Shaman are looking at a lot of the same: filler in the form of largely meaningless "improved X" talents. The few new tools we have been presented with are pretty lackluster by comparison.
If you look at the leaked heal-oriented Druid talents compared to those for the Shaman, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand which ones are superior; Druids, already the top healers in 2v2 and 3v3, are getting another instant HoT, a Flash Heal-type spell, and other assorted goodies that, quite honestly, look to make them even more impossible to kill even with the new offensive talents for other classes taken into account. They're likewise getting a normal rez, AoE heals, and other such tools that will make them worlds better in PvE as well.
Shaman, by comparison, are getting a trumped-up BoSac, an utterly superfluous variation of Cleanse, and a 20% chance for an anemic HoT to trigger off of one of their already tough-to-get-off-in-PvP heals. Other than Spirit Link, it's more of the same: raw power, but no finesse. And WoW isn't football; finesse wins PvP matches, not raw power. The Cleanse-esque spell removing magic instead of curse and any kind of instant heal would have made Resto Shaman worlds better, but instead we're still looking like LHW-reliant, escapeless, dispel, interrupt, and stun bait punching bags without the means to maintain themselves.
The only reason I'm not particularly as angry as Taurrus is at the moment is that I'm waiting until we're through alpha and at least a couple patches through beta before I decide to hang up my totems.
Edited, Jun 15th 2008 12:03am by Gaudion
Gaudion wrote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:
Resto druid and resto shaman fill very different roles as a healer in arena.
If you don't know that, it's time to go back and learn your class mechanics.
If you don't know that, it's time to go back and learn your class mechanics.
That's... really not true at all. Resto Druids and Resto Shaman are both there to do the same thing: keep their teams (including themselves) alive while their teammates DPS the opponents. They just do it in different ways, bring different "fringe benefits" to the team, and, ultimately, they do so to a varying degree of effectiveness skewed sharply in favor of the Druid.
Now if you wanted to talk Restokin, then yes, I would absolutely agree with you... they function much differently than a "pure" healer would, be it Druid, Shaman, or other.
Yeah, except that resto shamans always partner with a warrior because of windfury, and they're an offensive dispeller and buffer, while resto druids pretty much just heal and rely on evasion to win games.
Very different class mechanics.
Overlord Theophany wrote:
Very different class mechanics.
We weren't discussing mechanics...
Overlord Theophany wrote:
Resto druid and resto shaman fill very different roles as a healer in arena.
... we were discussing roles. And you're absolutely right as far as mechanics go; the Shaman dispels/interrupts when possible and buffs their Warrior while healing. The Druid evades and CC's the other team to tears, but all while healing. It's the same role: survival. They just use different approaches to the same end.
I was so sure they would simply stick in a talent that would boost the crit chance of Lesser Healing Wave by something like 15%/30% so that shaman could get a lot more out of Ancestral Healing and Lesser Healing Wave in PvE.
Edited, Jun 14th 2008 7:36pm by Raglu
Edited, Jun 14th 2008 7:36pm by Raglu
What friggin' difference does it make? Resto druid > resto shaman in arena. From the look of those talents, they will continue to do so as well.
Deleted, posted in Alpha thread.
Edited, Jun 15th 2008 10:56pm by Taurrus
Edited, Jun 15th 2008 10:56pm by Taurrus
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