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415 DefenseFollow

#1 Jun 08 2008 at 4:14 PM Rating: Decent
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67 posts
Can anyone explain how I can add defense but it doesn't give as much rate increase as I think it should. I got the last piece of t4 gear and used badges to buy a new ring, but using them puts me under 400 defense rating, so I've been struggling to get my defense back up. I got some gems in that put me at 407 and changed my cloak enchant from agi. to +12 defense. But instead of putting me at 419 it only put me at 412. That doesnt make sense to me, but maybe I'm missing something?
#2 Jun 08 2008 at 6:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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109 posts
Defense rating doesn't translate directly into defense. The conversion is something like 2.36 defense rating=1 defense skill or, looking at it the other way, 1 defense rating is .42 defense skill. It can be tough to get your defense up to 415, but since you haven't posted your gear I can't really tell you what you need to replace/improve.
#3 Jun 08 2008 at 7:46 PM Rating: Decent
45 posts
SomnusSleeper wrote:
Defense rating doesn't translate directly into defense.


This.


Defense increases dodge/block/parry/uncritability, but seeing as we can't block or parry a lot of the benefit of defense is wasted. If you're needing to get uncrittable, resilience is often a faster and cheaper way to do it. The new stam/resilience head enchant from the Shattered Sun is a good option, as is the +15 res chest enchant. PvP Dragonhide bracers are also extremely good, or if you're got the arena points the S3 (and soon S4) gear is roughly T5 level+.

I strongly reccommend you visit http://be.imba.hu/, it'll look up your character details and tell you exactly how much defense or resilience you need to be uncrittable, as well as other useful tidbits.

You can also use the following macro to check your % anticrit. If the value it gives is 2.6 or over, you're uncrittable.

/script DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage(2.6-(GetCombatRatingBonus(CR_DEFENSE_SKILL)*.04+GetCombatRatingBonus(CR_CRIT_TAKEN_MELEE)),1,0.5,0) 
#4 Jun 09 2008 at 2:36 AM Rating: Good
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1,764 posts
be.imba.hu is bad, don't go there. Especially when there's a much better utility you can DL from the druidwiki. druid.wikispaces.com/Rawr You can either import your character from the armory, or manually imput all your gear. It's a good way to look for upgrades, and to see what gems/enchants you can change and how they'll affect your stats.
#5 Jun 09 2008 at 7:15 AM Rating: Excellent
45 posts
Don't get me wrong, Rawr is a superb program, but if you're merely concerned about hitting uncrittable then be.imba.hu is perfectly adequate, and doesn't involve downloading and working out how to use software.

Once you're juggling about gear looking for upgrades, then using Rawr and/or http://druid.wikispaces.com/ToskksDPSGearMethod (for dps gear), becomes almost mandatory.
#6 Jun 10 2008 at 3:02 PM Rating: Good
Just a heads up, the latest versions of Rawr feature a kitty DPS model using Toskks methodology built in. It also does Moonkins, Mages, Warlocks, Prot Warriors, Retadins & Healadins.

More modules currently being worked on as well.

#7 Jun 10 2008 at 4:15 PM Rating: Good
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1,764 posts
I still think Rawr is better, since you can plug in different pieces of gear and see how it changes your stats. The Cat DPS model works well, I've looked at the Warlock one but I'm not sure what spec it's using to figure out your DPS.

And I really don't like be.imba because I see a lot of people (in game and on the forums) wondering why they suck at their job when be.imba said they should be in heroics/10-mans/t4/t5 raids.
#8 Jun 10 2008 at 4:33 PM Rating: Default
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Edited, Aug 27th 2008 12:32am by kawainui
#9 Jun 10 2008 at 6:12 PM Rating: Excellent
45 posts
kawainui wrote:
As a side note I remember seeing something on ElitistJerks about needing 416 Defense to actually be uncritable but couldn't find the math. The mega druid thread while nice is kind of a cluster @#%^ of druid-y goodness. So if anyone has the math as to why it would be 416 instead of 415 I would like to see. Tank you in advance.

Also does the macro account for the 415 vs. 416 debate I just made up or is the end all of uncritable status.


There is no debate, you're just misinformed. It's 415. The feral druid megathread concurs. If you're going to say something controversial, kindly provide the source.


RareBeast wrote:
Just a heads up, the latest versions of Rawr feature a kitty DPS model using Toskks methodology built in.


Good to know, thanks. *Updates*
#10 Jun 10 2008 at 7:01 PM Rating: Good
I think the discussion was whether you needed 155 or 156 Def Rating to get to crit-immunity. Consensus came to the fact that you need 156 Def Rating.

#11 Jun 10 2008 at 8:22 PM Rating: Default
deleted

Edited, Aug 27th 2008 12:32am by kawainui
#12 Jun 11 2008 at 11:06 AM Rating: Good
37 posts
Quote:
I think the discussion was whether you needed 155 or 156 Def Rating to get to crit-immunity. Consensus came to the fact that you need 156 Def Rating.


Correct, the issue was that WoW would show you at 415 defense with 155 defense rating through a round-up. In actuality you'd still be a small % short of being crit immune. Another way to look at it is to be at 2.6% between defense and resilience. Imba works great for this aspect because all you have to do is open the web page and have it download your armory. The quirks of imba don't really affect just checking to be crit immune.
#13 Jun 25 2008 at 4:57 AM Rating: Good
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533 posts
I made the mistake of chucking a pair of blue gloves that had nice + Def a week ago and spent a bit of time tweaking my Feral Tank set to get back to 415 Def.


I grabbed a Necklace of the Deep(Lvl 65) with 2x +8 Def gems. That got me from 409 to 415. I think it was on Emerald's list too.

I only use my tank set for trash in Kara or when an off tank would help but we are short one (Balance spec).

#14 Jun 25 2008 at 5:38 AM Rating: Good
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186 posts
Quote:
I only use my tank set for trash in Kara or when an off tank would help but we are short one (Balance spec).

If I'm reading this right, you're working towards getting to 415 defense while off-tanking as a balance druid. If you want to be uncrittable to raid bosses as a non-feral spec (read: no Survival of the Fittest) you actually need the same 490 defense that warriors and paladins have to reach. If you're respeccing for an off-tank role and already know this, I apologize.
#15 Jun 26 2008 at 4:02 AM Rating: Good
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533 posts
Quote:
If I'm reading this right, you're working towards getting to 415 defense while off-tanking as a balance druid. If you want to be uncrittable to raid bosses as a non-feral spec (read: no Survival of the Fittest) you actually need the same 490 defense that warriors and paladins have to reach. If you're respeccing for an off-tank role and already know this, I apologize.


Yeah. I didn't state that clearly. I am keeping my gear Respec-Ready (I haven't played as a feral since lvl 40 >.>).

I will still use the gear for trash Mobs that need physical attacks/off tanking(Mana Wryms) but not with the expectation of being uncrittable.

I wouldn't think gemming/gearing to 490 Def as Balance would be worth it but now you have piqued my interest. Thanks for the info JaimsonP!
#16 Jun 26 2008 at 9:48 AM Rating: Good
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1,764 posts
If you're going for off-spec tanking, you can actually use some PvP gear with resil to hit 5.6% fewer crits. If it's not flat out impossible for a druid to hit crit-immune off just Defense, it's pretty close. Alternatively, you could try for a panzerkin set with Balance PvP gear to reach the same 5.6% fewer crits.

As a side note, I think the worms in the Karazhan library ignore aggro tables.
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