http://www.gcguild.net/blog/myrx/2008/06/06/mutilate
Myrx is from Gentlemen's Club; for those that don't keep up to date, GC is one of the more progressed guilds in the US.
He did some testing with mutilate in a raid setting, and he left his comments and thoughts up above. I thought it was in interesting read that some people around here that love mut (*coughSalwrathiscough*) might like to take a gander at.
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Myrx Comments on Mutilate's use in T6/T6.5...Follow
Well, he didn't really say anything that we didn't know already, and you don't necessarily need to be in T5/T6 content to make the same observations.
The positioning requirement IS an issue, and it's only partly offset by Fleet Footed. CP generation is great but it IS difficult at times to maintain steady rotations without wasting them by having things overlap.
I made my first trip into Kara now, and while things went exceptionally well with Attumen/Midnight and Maiden, even putting me on the top spot during the latter, Aran turned out to be a major pain. Him spinning in a circle while targeting people and myself standing in Flame Wreath had me using SS to at least make sure I keep SnD up - certainly not the way to move to the top of the dps charts. Similar issue with Curator and having to chase down the flares. Moving around fast is one thing, but actually killing stuff with a dagger SS is another.
Pretty much. Trying to squeeze things into the 10 second window is a pain, especially if you're dealing with high latency on top of everything else.
The positioning requirement IS an issue, and it's only partly offset by Fleet Footed. CP generation is great but it IS difficult at times to maintain steady rotations without wasting them by having things overlap.
I made my first trip into Kara now, and while things went exceptionally well with Attumen/Midnight and Maiden, even putting me on the top spot during the latter, Aran turned out to be a major pain. Him spinning in a circle while targeting people and myself standing in Flame Wreath had me using SS to at least make sure I keep SnD up - certainly not the way to move to the top of the dps charts. Similar issue with Curator and having to chase down the flares. Moving around fast is one thing, but actually killing stuff with a dagger SS is another.
Quote:
Make Find Weakness last for 15 seconds. This would alleviate some of the stress when cycling with an agressive "3 finisher" cycle.
Pretty much. Trying to squeeze things into the 10 second window is a pain, especially if you're dealing with high latency on top of everything else.
Kanngarnix wrote:
Well, he didn't really say anything that we didn't know already, and you don't necessarily need to be in T5/T6 content to make the same observations.
The positioning requirement IS an issue, and it's only partly offset by Fleet Footed. CP generation is great but it IS difficult at times to maintain steady rotations without wasting them by having things overlap.
I made my first trip into Kara now, and while things went exceptionally well with Attumen/Midnight and Maiden, even putting me on the top spot during the latter, Aran turned out to be a major pain. Him spinning in a circle while targeting people and myself standing in Flame Wreath had me using SS to at least make sure I keep SnD up - certainly not the way to move to the top of the dps charts. Similar issue with Curator and having to chase down the flares. Moving around fast is one thing, but actually killing stuff with a dagger SS is another.
Pretty much. Trying to squeeze things into the 10 second window is a pain, especially if you're dealing with high latency on top of everything else.
The positioning requirement IS an issue, and it's only partly offset by Fleet Footed. CP generation is great but it IS difficult at times to maintain steady rotations without wasting them by having things overlap.
I made my first trip into Kara now, and while things went exceptionally well with Attumen/Midnight and Maiden, even putting me on the top spot during the latter, Aran turned out to be a major pain. Him spinning in a circle while targeting people and myself standing in Flame Wreath had me using SS to at least make sure I keep SnD up - certainly not the way to move to the top of the dps charts. Similar issue with Curator and having to chase down the flares. Moving around fast is one thing, but actually killing stuff with a dagger SS is another.
Quote:
Make Find Weakness last for 15 seconds. This would alleviate some of the stress when cycling with an agressive "3 finisher" cycle.
Pretty much. Trying to squeeze things into the 10 second window is a pain, especially if you're dealing with high latency on top of everything else.
Yeah, I agree that he really didn't put up anything significant, but he did describe his experience on content that none of the rogues here except Eschatologist have seen on their rogues, and he's a pure combat swords rogue, so he while he could speculate, he wouldn't be able to post concrete experience with mut.
I personally found it interesting to hear that kind of perspective from one of the most knowledgeable rogues in the world, rather than the "mutilate is awful, terribad, etc, etc, etc" crap that everyone always spouts off.
Overlord Theophany wrote:
I personally found it interesting to hear that kind of perspective from one of the most knowledgeable rogues in the world, rather than the "mutilate is awful, terribad, etc, etc, etc" crap that everyone always spouts off.
Yeah it was actually quite positive. The gap isn't quite as wide as some people still claim, and there is obviously still some room to close it even more by optimizing rotations. Just under 7% difference with a spec that's not only fun to play but also works well enough in PvP is pretty cool already though.
Kanngarnix wrote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:
I personally found it interesting to hear that kind of perspective from one of the most knowledgeable rogues in the world, rather than the "mutilate is awful, terribad, etc, etc, etc" crap that everyone always spouts off.
Yeah it was actually quite positive. The gap isn't quite as wide as some people still claim, and there is obviously still some room to close it even more by optimizing rotations. Just under 7% difference with a spec that's not only fun to play but also works well enough in PvP is pretty cool already though.
~150 DPS is quite significant in T6, to the tune of going from #1 to #6-8.
Still much better than the 10-15% people claimed it would be. Essentially the only thing truly missing is a raid-wide debuff similar to Blood Frenzy. Having a portion of Find Weakness affect total incoming damage would do the trick, or if they wanted to keep the extra damage personal, have FW affect white melee as well while it's up.
Definitely not something that couldn't be done without everybody screaming for nerfs.
Definitely not something that couldn't be done without everybody screaming for nerfs.
IMO Blizz can never make Mutilate the best PvE spec. The entire bottom half of the Combat tree would be useless. However, I would like to see mutilate become more of a utility spec similar to a survival hunter or an arms warrior(ie having one in the raid boosts overall DPS more than a combat rogue, but more than one is not viable). Give em a raid wide buff or debuff, or make a mutilate rogue have an Expose Armor that is significantly better than Sunder, or something to that effect.
Makaro wrote:
IMO Blizz can never make Mutilate the best PvE spec. The entire bottom half of the Combat tree would be useless. However, I would like to see mutilate become more of a utility spec similar to a survival hunter or an arms warrior(ie having one in the raid boosts overall DPS more than a combat rogue, but more than one is not viable). Give em a raid wide buff or debuff, or make a mutilate rogue have an Expose Armor that is significantly better than Sunder, or something to that effect.
Find Weakness effecting entire raid (or perhaps just party)?
Making optimal group enhancment/fury/ret/combat/mutilate would be interesting.
ive always thought FW should have some kind of group damage component. make it only affect melee damage or physical damage so you avoid any unbalancing effects in pvp (i.e. shatter combos under KS). this way you have your token mut rogue (so dropped daggers dont go to waste) who sacrifices a bit of personal DPS to up the DPS of the raids melee.
another way of doing things would be to have FW add extra threat to threat generating physical moves that specifically state they have high threat (thunder clap, revenge, mangle, lacerate etc.). this way having a mut rogue in the raid means not only a higher DPS for all the physical DD's, but also higher threat caps for warriors and druids (and to a lesser extent paladins and DK's).
another way of doing things would be to have FW add extra threat to threat generating physical moves that specifically state they have high threat (thunder clap, revenge, mangle, lacerate etc.). this way having a mut rogue in the raid means not only a higher DPS for all the physical DD's, but also higher threat caps for warriors and druids (and to a lesser extent paladins and DK's).
This investogation lacks rigour. He should have at least tried 3/4((proc) point cycles, too. I suspect the conclusion is right, anyway.
Overlord Theophany wrote:
http://www.gcguild.net/blog/myrx/2008/06/06/mutilate
Myrx is from Gentlemen's Club; for those that don't keep up to date, GC is one of the more progressed guilds in the US.
He did some testing with mutilate in a raid setting, and he left his comments and thoughts up above. I thought it was in interesting read that some people around here that love mut (*coughSalwrathiscough*) might like to take a gander at.
Myrx is from Gentlemen's Club; for those that don't keep up to date, GC is one of the more progressed guilds in the US.
He did some testing with mutilate in a raid setting, and he left his comments and thoughts up above. I thought it was in interesting read that some people around here that love mut (*coughSalwrathiscough*) might like to take a gander at.
:)
The potential for mutilate always interested me, which is why I let one of my rogues raid muti. He's _close_ to being on par with me as far as his gear goes, but it's interesting to see the fights that mutilate actually performs better than combat(Read: Naj'entus, Kazrogal). On those specific fights where dps time has short interupts, muti is faster at getting their cycles back up.
What really pissed me off is when Boundless Agony dropped, my muti rogue wasnt there, so I was going to take it for PvP. Until the other combat rogue started trying to burn my dkp, so I just said **** it.
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