Hunters fall behindFollow

We may die of old age before Blizzard tries to fix this. I'm still not sure it is fixable given the current arena layouts. They'd have to add in somewhat safer 'sniping' areas and reduce LOS issues. Then it would be up to teams to coax the foes into their hunters range. You'd get into standoffs and other issues at that point, so again, not sure what Blizz can or will do here. In Arena, we suffer from glass cannon syndrome.

I still believe that Hunter is the hardest class to master. I've spoken with many, many other players and they agreed- levelling is cake, mastering for end game is hard, especially PvP.

In Arena, I see so many clueless hunters (I am certainly no expert but I do know how I should play) that it is no wonder we are the least successful class. Most hunters GIVE UP once they are assaulted by a melee combatant. I did the same thing when I started because I didn't know how to deal with them. Now I at least fight.

Any new strategy or unfamiliar situation tends to end in the death of the hunter. We don't wear plate so we die sooner than the tanks. We don't have magic shields or the ability to bubble. We can't vanish out of combat. Our main advantages that protect us in PvE (Pet tank, Feign Death) do NOT work in PvP. We have to overcome all these challenges.

We cannot change this and I put forward that we should not wait for or QQ to Blizzard to change it. The only thing we can change is to better ourselves.

As I am practicing dealing with melee combatants, I'm getting better. I've killed rogues, warriors, even a paladin (my weak spot) by myself in Arena- no team help. I'm getting better at it. My team is starting to win more often. I submit, that even with all our drawbacks, WE CAN WIN in arena. We must get better at our class, it's the only thing we can do. I think a competant Hunter can win in the regular ranks. A Hunter God should even be able to win in the highest brackets because it has been done.

I think we look bad when we complain, and even use it as an excuse not to try to improve. I don't care if we are underrepresented or are harder to play. I enjoy the challenge and I do not need to be the best or the fastest or even equal. I just need to have fun playing... and practice MUCH MUCH more. It's not like the practice hurts either- you still get rewards and it costs you nearly nothing in repairs. You don't need to buy mana pots or anything else. Arena is cheap fun, cheap practice. Those are skills you can use almost everywhere else in the game.

Simply put, we don't have versatility to Arena effectively. We have strong combos in arena, namely Drood/Hunter, but other than that, we really don't do all that well. Rogues have many, many, many combos out there, as do mages (More in 3s and 5s than in 2s though). And despite all contrary belief, combos are an important part of Arena. Sure there are some unorthodox combos, some of which do good. Hell, I used to run Hunter/Lock and while we weren't zomgGladiators, we did manage to hover around the 1650 mark.

As to why they've suddenly jump up in representation? I believe it is because people are starting to understand the true potential of the class. Hunters have their niche, it just happens that mages/rogue's niches are much, much larger.

Come S4, some other random combo could be discovered (Prot Pally/Prot Pally, c'mon Bliz, make it happen!) and maybe Hunters will become the new flavor of the month. Until then, we just need to make do with what we have, and like Sloshot said, work to better ourselves.

I've described how my Arena teams are all RL friends, and how we lose a lot. All three teams are well under 1500, and we reform them once we get to 1200 or so and start seeing long queue times waiting for another team that sucks as much as we do to get matched against.

Last week I had an interesting experience. Some of the team have more than a single 70 and like to swap out to get them both their matches. I've got a 70 Mage I stopped playing after finding that it plays too much like my Hunter in PvE for me to feel like I'm doing anything very different than I would with my Hunter. Ranged DPS, go.
So after losing my required 3 games with the Hunter, I asked if anyone minded if I swapped in my Mage. We won 5-2 the remaining 7 matches, with the Mage performing respectably, and sometimes exceptionally, in damage dealt.

I haven't played the Mage for other then ore farming in months. I had to go buy reagents after the first match, because I was out (you don't summon Tables or AB groups while farming ore). My Hunter is in T5ish gear, with the BoJ gear being T5+ or even T6 quality, and has a full set of Vindicators and several S3 pieces. The Hunter is fully gemmed and enchanted. The Mage is in blues, with zero enchants and the only gemming I've bothered with is to get hit capped and to buy a Meta using Spirit Shards. The Mage has zero PvP gear. In short, there is a world of difference between my Hunter and my Mage in gearing, and I'd say also in skill, since I play the Hunter a few times per week and the Mage maybe once per week just flying around looking for ore. And yet the Mage lived longer and did more damage in almost all of the matches, and we went from losing to winning.

7 games isn't a trend. It could be a fluke. But I'll be building a CC macro for the Mage (yeah, yet another thing the Mage was lacking but still managed to CC targets in every match) and will be playing it in every weeks matches from here on out.

I've thought a great deal about this since my previous post. First, Kompera's descriptions pretty much match my own experiences with Arena.

I think there's also a commitment level that hurts hunters. We can be successful if our strengths are mastered and played to by our teammates. Uncoordinated, lack of real tactics, etc., seem to affect our class the worst. After all, we are all about coordination.

Now that I'm occasionally raiding, I'm mindful of how much I add to a Raid but how much it can suffer if I ***** up or if the Raid doesn't use my class properly. This carries directly over to Arena. It doesn't so much in a BG because a single hunter tends to be able to pick and choose the method and manner of the engagement in the open areas. After all, any other class thinks twice about engaging a hunter in the open field. Most will go the other direction. Only the melee classes will actively seek it on a regular basis and they are taking their chances if the hunter is unoccupied and sees them.

So, casual Arena teams will always be mediocre or poor no matter what makeup they are, and guess what- they don't care either. It's nice to win but they are after the points and gear. True arena teams that last from week to week, practice and compete, might be able to develop tactics and strategy that not only involve a hunter but make them shine.

It seems to me that Blizz might be able to 'fix' the Arena by making two different levels of it. I hate to call it amateur and professional, but it really comes down to that. The amatuer ranks should be able to get points, honor, etc., but perhaps at a rate that is 75% of the pro-version. The pro fields need to get more points and honor, but should also get GOLD from their matches. Make them true tourneyments. If each player is required to pay an entrance fee (not a charter fee, that would stay) that would go into a 'pot' and for each win, they get some back. At the end of the week, half of the remains of the pot goes to the highest ranked team that week. The other half goes into a 'Season' pot. The last month of the season, all the teams that won a week go head to head to compete for the Season pot and maybe some special season gear. A true tourneyment. The pro ranks should also be divvied up into 3 ranks. Low, Middle, High, or whatnever you want to call them. If you win a week, you get promoted to the next level up. It would take two winning weeks in the Season to get put into the High bracket, which would not kick off until there were at least two teams in it. This would keep teams competing against their own level of play, that is up to finale month, then it's a free for all with the weekly winners. Even a low bracket team might take it (fat chance, but possible).


This would separate the casual Arena players where Hunter is hard to play and always will be... chaotic comes to mind, from the serious teams where a well played Hunter can probably MAKE the team great from just being mediocre. The separation idea and a few modifications to the Arenas themselves might be all we need to overcome our weaknesses.

It's okay to suggest something is wrong with the game, but always try to have a solution or two on hand to offer when you do. It makes you not seem like a whiner but like an agent of change. ^_^

I have been on a number of arena teams and i do not feel that hunters are in anyway bad. Most people would say that in 2's hunter/hunter is not that good a combo, but i have had no trouble getting my rating above 1700, and that is with a team not very well suited for 2's. I've had a druid partner and i saw my rating hit just under 1900. My 3's team i have a hybrid enhance/resto shammy, and a holy pally, on that team we pushed 1800.

Hunters may not be the easiest to play in arena, but please, we are more than able to hold our own. We wear mail and are ranged damage, all those magi out there wish they could wear our mail.

Just cause hunter is hard doesn't mean we can't be very effective in arena. I know we targeted first a lot, but that is because of the sheer destructive power we have if we are left to stand there and pew pew.

We can dispell/mortal strike/slow/mana drain/send pet/silence/stun/trap/and do damage. If you ask me we have a lot of trick up our sleeves.

Edited, Jun 10th 2008 5:44am by greengimp

So true!
I must admit that when i see an enemy hunter or mage , i am thinking " oh nice an easy kill"..xe xe

Arena Bgs and pve are very different thing.Sure they can fix our performance in arena without even touched our abilities in pve.

Example in raids we dont run.We stay in a place.Even if we could run in raids , whats the point?So why if they fix the run and shoot thing we will be OP in pve?
But i realy think that first priority of Blizz isnt to balance arena.So some classes would be allways better than other classes in arena.some classes would do great in 2v2 bracket and bad in 5v5 bracket.

But the "L2P huntard" is not true.we need a fix soon


Edited, Jun 11th 2008 5:59am by dorogodess

Edited, Jun 11th 2008 6:00am by dorogodess

I agree there are issues with hunters in arena, but I also agree that with a little planning, they are surmountable.

dropping traps early and often, feign death whenever possible, etc.

As Survival, I aslo have readiness which gives me two traps in a row as well as double deterrance, feign death, wyvern sting.

I find myself surviving better than some hunters

My one peeve here is the fear beast thing. They said they were going to make it instant, and the tooltip still says that (last I checked) and a GM also said they were working on it after the first arena battle where that didn't work.

what's the deal? are they going to fix it? is it going to stay a timed cast?

Zeromatter-

I was checking out your talent spec and was wondering did you come up with it specifically for raiding or was this a spec you have had pre-70?

*Whistling* O Hi there, nah im just waiting for Aethien's rebuttal.

I've got a horrible hangover.
You'll have to wait longer.