Ok, i use the standard 1:1 steady auto shot rotation.
Here is the thing, in a 25 man with buffs i'm putting out around 1400 dps but that is without Kill command.
When i start using kill command i see my dps in longer fights drop to around 1320 dps, mainly because i run out of mana, and have to switch to viper. Now i chug my mana pots every 2 mins and use mageblood elixir and mana oil.
My question is do most endgame hunters find that using kill command on long fights is just a waste of mana?
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Blade%27s+Edge&n=Greengimp
thanks for the help
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Kill command = lower dps?Follow
Kill command can cut into my DPS if I have to mash a button to cause it to execute and that causes steady shot to clip autoshot. However that's not been a problem for me since I changed my macro to include the kill command.
On long fights, I typically have to switch to viper also. Prince Malchezar (sp?) in Karazan is one good example of this. However that's not an issue with that fight. If I go all-out, I'll pull aggro off the tank anyway.
Edited, Jun 3rd 2008 12:47pm by ItsaGaAs
On long fights, I typically have to switch to viper also. Prince Malchezar (sp?) in Karazan is one good example of this. However that's not an issue with that fight. If I go all-out, I'll pull aggro off the tank anyway.
Edited, Jun 3rd 2008 12:47pm by ItsaGaAs
Are you using regular mana pots? If so switch, to fel mana pots, i never switch to viper, and i maybe use only 2-3 pots a night. Usually the only time i need to pot is if i have to res my pet for some reason.
Edited, Jun 3rd 2008 3:51pm by montaghar
Edited, Jun 3rd 2008 3:51pm by montaghar
i don't loose the dps from having to hit KC, i have the macro that does it automatically, i loose dps from having to switch from Hawk to viper. I find in a 8+ minute fight if i use KC then i will have lower dps than not using it and just keeping Hawk on the whole time, now in a fight like prince, mana isn't a issue, prince dies in like 5 minutes, so i never come close to running out of mana.
even with fel mana pots, if the fight is gonna be 12 minutes, i have to go to viper using KC
I don't get the joy of having a S-priest in group, or a shammy for mana totem
Edited, Jun 3rd 2008 3:55pm by greengimp
I don't get the joy of having a S-priest in group, or a shammy for mana totem
Edited, Jun 3rd 2008 3:55pm by greengimp
greengimp wrote:
i don't loose the dps from ... i loose dps from having to switch from Hawk to viper.
Main Entry: loose
Pronunciation:
\ˈlüs\
Function:
adjective
1 a: not rigidly fastened or securely attached
Main Entry: lose
Pronunciation:
\ˈlüz\
Function:
verb
3: to suffer deprivation of : part with especially in an unforeseen or accidental manner
6: to cause the loss of
7: to fail to keep, sustain, or maintain <lost my balance>
thanks dilbrt, that was really helpful, and answered my question
No sarcasm there of course.
greengimp wrote:
if the fight is gonna be 12 minutes
You could always regem for MP/5
<ducks>
<ducks>
I would think that, if you are still going oom with fel mana pots, level alch to get the stone. It's better than Bloodlust Brooch by around 20 ap (according to Aethian's calculations somewhere) if you are going oom. The only reason that I would not recommend it would be if you are doing a haste stacking SV DPS build, where you would be using haste pots, the ashtongue trinket, and DST, as well as having lw and jc for the drumd and neck/ring.
Edited, Jun 3rd 2008 8:19pm by Yuppley
Edited, Jun 3rd 2008 8:19pm by Yuppley
Thanks Dilbrt, that annoys me also. (http://www.bash.org/?4450) :-)
I was thinking of trying to work out the Damage per Mana of Kill Command and Steady shot, but the damage dealt in both cases is dependant on your attack power.
(So from memory, and keeping in mind I don't raid. I'm only in Blues)
My Kill Command hits for about 280, and mana cost is 75
My Steady Shots hit for about 500, and mana cost is 110
DPM for KC is 3.7333
DPM for SS is 4.5454
(that's for me, and ignoring the effect of crits)
So it's not quite as good as Steady Shot, but then again, Steady Shot is the most efficient shot we have.
Since KC doesn't trigger the GCD, my opinion would be that, yes, of course it uses mana, but it IS doing damage, so it's not wasted.
If KC is written into a macro being spammed, it shouldn't intefere with a shot rotation.
I was thinking of trying to work out the Damage per Mana of Kill Command and Steady shot, but the damage dealt in both cases is dependant on your attack power.
(So from memory, and keeping in mind I don't raid. I'm only in Blues)
My Kill Command hits for about 280, and mana cost is 75
My Steady Shots hit for about 500, and mana cost is 110
DPM for KC is 3.7333
DPM for SS is 4.5454
(that's for me, and ignoring the effect of crits)
So it's not quite as good as Steady Shot, but then again, Steady Shot is the most efficient shot we have.
Since KC doesn't trigger the GCD, my opinion would be that, yes, of course it uses mana, but it IS doing damage, so it's not wasted.
If KC is written into a macro being spammed, it shouldn't intefere with a shot rotation.
kk, it looks like i'm just gonna regem for a little extra mp5 then, if it works then yippee, if not, then o well, i'm already doing a good amount of damage anyway.
greengimp wrote:
kk, it looks like i'm just gonna regem for a little extra mp5 then, if it works then yippee, if not, then o well, i'm already doing a good amount of damage anyway.
Do NOT regem for MP5, thats a really bad idea. Gem for pure DPS, the mana reg will have to come from different sources.
What are you fighting if your fights tend to be 8-12minutes? Thats at what level of content are you currently?
The only really long fights I know of are Illidari Council and Illidan (~9-15min, and 14-25min).
Usually if mana becomes an issue there is not much a single person can do. The best ways of getting you mana is by raid support.
Your personal mana reg is rather limited (manaoil has 16mp5; 16mp5 from a mageblood elixir; you might gem/gear for mana reg or even use manareg buff food). It won't bring you beyond 100 or 125 mp5 and this can not cover your mana expenditure. Mana pots add a lot more than that, so by using pots in a smart way (potting early), you can DPS a while longer.
However the real manareg comes from raid support (blessing of wisdom adds 41mp5, mana totem is ~40mp5?, mana tide is ~100mp5, a shadow priest adds > 200mp5, a pally seal yields ~200mp5).
And of course you have to consider your mana consumption. Scorpid sting and improved hunters mark cost a lot of mana, so make sure that you spread those tasks and assign scorpid sting duty to the hunter with the best mana reg (usually the SV hunter).
Thus if you constantly have mana issues, try to get better raid support (get that pally to put a mana seal on every boss and you'll never have mana problems again).
If you cannot convince your raid to support you better and you still cannot sustain Kill Command, then don't use it once you are low on mana (that is use it during the first 2-3minutes. Once you are at 40% mana stop using Kill Command and use your Steady rotation only).
Kill command doesn't really use that much mana at all, and should not be listed as the first ability to cut back on to conserve mana (typically). Its been discovered and covered at least on EJ forums that kill command sometimes hangs up auto shots, especially if your using a castsequence macro, making you chain steadies, which hurts your dps. One workaround has been the 2 part macro, where the macro your spamming has a line to click another macro which includes kill command. You also don't want to completely remove kill command from your rotation because of the extra crit that goes along with it, which helps keep up FI (and KC can easily crit for over 1k, much more than any other pet attack).
As far as mana regen, Mulgrin hit it pretty good. You have to rely on your raid support for most of it, and all too often hunter mana is never considered. Any single buff is usally enough (ie, pally judging wisdom, spriest, or shammy mana spring). Just be smart with your shot rotation and pot usage. Fel mana pots are gonna be much better for you than super mana pots as they give more mana back, and it gives mana over time, which means you can pop it a little sooner than the super mana pots. Also, try to dual wield weapons when you can, as you can put mana oils on both weapons.
As far as mana regen, Mulgrin hit it pretty good. You have to rely on your raid support for most of it, and all too often hunter mana is never considered. Any single buff is usally enough (ie, pally judging wisdom, spriest, or shammy mana spring). Just be smart with your shot rotation and pot usage. Fel mana pots are gonna be much better for you than super mana pots as they give more mana back, and it gives mana over time, which means you can pop it a little sooner than the super mana pots. Also, try to dual wield weapons when you can, as you can put mana oils on both weapons.
No, no! I was joking about the MP/5 regemming. Chug fel mana pots, use wizard oils and switch to viper when your mana gets down around 20%. However hopefully you won't have to switch to viper except on the longest fights.
Edited, Jun 5th 2008 10:51am by ItsaGaAs
Edited, Jun 5th 2008 10:51am by ItsaGaAs
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