I know that a 20/0/41 build (or a slight variation on that) is the cookie-cutter build for us in PvP, but I am confused over some things..
• People claim that Resilience killed crits, yet we still spec for +5% crit and +30% crit damage.
• As covered in the SnD & PvP thread, white damage is still important in PvP, yet we do not do anything to improve our off-hand damage.
I guess I just don't see why a cookie cutter 20/0/41 build is favored over a 0/20/41 build. Is it that we do not do enough damage with the off-hand (even with +50% damage)? Is vile poisons just that good where is shouldn't be missed? Both?
Edited, Jun 2nd 2008 10:02am by PsiChi
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Ruthlessness and relentless strikes are too important, as it gives me (hopefully) a point to land a quick DT if my target tries to flee. Oh, and I left off lethality for ImpExArmor and Improved Gouge. I gouge quite a bit.
Your mileage may vary, however.
Your mileage may vary, however.
Vile Poisons and Imp EA, in addition to Ruthlessness and Relentless Strikes.
Nothing in Combat makes a PvPer go, "omg must have!" like Vile/R/RS.
Nothing in Combat makes a PvPer go, "omg must have!" like Vile/R/RS.
Well, you usually don't actually take the full +30% crit damage talent (its kind of filler so you can get 5/5 Vile Poisons, what else were you going to put it in?). You can also think of it this way: crit bolstering talents are like lowering your opponent's Resilience.
Malice is like taking 200 resilience off your opponent (as far as chance to land a crit), and Lethality is like taking off 400 reslience in regards to Crit dmg of your instance attacks (rough estimates).
Like Theo said, Ruthlessness/Relentless Strikes/Vile Poisons are really good to have (Murder ain't bad either, I never put points into Improved Eviscerate).
I'm not sure, but isn't the hit cap for PvP pretty low? 5/5 Precison seems kinda wasteful (now if you could get Expertise early in Combat, that'd be profit). The other Combat talents are debatable based how long you're fighting (might be better in BGs or 5v5 arena)...
Edited, Jun 2nd 2008 2:52pm by angryempath
Malice is like taking 200 resilience off your opponent (as far as chance to land a crit), and Lethality is like taking off 400 reslience in regards to Crit dmg of your instance attacks (rough estimates).
Like Theo said, Ruthlessness/Relentless Strikes/Vile Poisons are really good to have (Murder ain't bad either, I never put points into Improved Eviscerate).
I'm not sure, but isn't the hit cap for PvP pretty low? 5/5 Precison seems kinda wasteful (now if you could get Expertise early in Combat, that'd be profit). The other Combat talents are debatable based how long you're fighting (might be better in BGs or 5v5 arena)...
Edited, Jun 2nd 2008 2:52pm by angryempath
angryempath wrote:
Well, you usually don't actually take the full +30% crit damage talent (its kind of filler so you can get 5/5 Vile Poisons, what else were you going to put it in?). You can also think of it this way: crit bolstering talents are like lowering your opponent's Resilience.
Malice is like taking 200 resilience off your opponent (as far as chance to land a crit), and Lethality is like taking off 400 reslience in regards to Crit dmg of your instance attacks (rough estimates).
Like Theo said, Ruthlessness/Relentless Strikes/Vile Poisons are really good to have (Murder ain't bad either, I never put points into Improved Eviscerate).
I'm not sure, but isn't the hit cap for PvP pretty low? 5/5 Precison seems kinda wasteful (now if you could get Expertise early in Combat, that'd be profit). The other Combat talents are debatable based how long you're fighting (might be better in BGs or 5v5 arena)...
Edited, Jun 2nd 2008 2:52pm by angryempath
Malice is like taking 200 resilience off your opponent (as far as chance to land a crit), and Lethality is like taking off 400 reslience in regards to Crit dmg of your instance attacks (rough estimates).
Like Theo said, Ruthlessness/Relentless Strikes/Vile Poisons are really good to have (Murder ain't bad either, I never put points into Improved Eviscerate).
I'm not sure, but isn't the hit cap for PvP pretty low? 5/5 Precison seems kinda wasteful (now if you could get Expertise early in Combat, that'd be profit). The other Combat talents are debatable based how long you're fighting (might be better in BGs or 5v5 arena)...
Edited, Jun 2nd 2008 2:52pm by angryempath
If you have 4/5 S3 and PvP weapons, yeah, Precision is pretty much a waste (4/5 S3 + S3 weps, with enchants is 78 hit, 1 less than cap). It lets your white hits land a bit more, but there's more useful stuff to be had in PvP.
ShS is frankly incredibly energy-starved without R/RS. That's why I spec into Assassination, but that's my opinion.
I think the pvp hitcap is 87 or 88, if I'm not mistaken. Someone who knows, post so I'm not ******** myself!
ThomasMagnum wrote:
I think the pvp hitcap is 87 or 88, if I'm not mistaken. Someone who knows, post so I'm not ******** myself!
78.85.
15.77 = 1%, 5% required on level 70 targets.
Ergo, 79 with rounding.
Quote:
400 reslience in regards to Crit dmg of your instance attacks (rough estimates).
5/5 Lethality: Crit does 230% damage, the multiplier only applies to the crit part.
400 resilience: Applies to the entire crit, - 205 of the entire crit.
So let's just take a 1000 base dmg Hemo:
2000 x 1.15 x 0.80 = 1840
You overestimate Lethality quite a bit :P
Yes, when multiplying the WHOLE crit then lethality 5/5 is 15% extra.
Overlord Theophany wrote:
ThomasMagnum wrote:
I think the pvp hitcap is 87 or 88, if I'm not mistaken. Someone who knows, post so I'm not ******** myself!
78.85.
15.77 = 1%, 5% required on level 70 targets.
Ergo, 79 with rounding.
I think I posted before I read your reply above mine. Thank you for the correction, I now must rid myself of 10 hit points.
ThomasMagnum wrote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:
ThomasMagnum wrote:
I think the pvp hitcap is 87 or 88, if I'm not mistaken. Someone who knows, post so I'm not ******** myself!
78.85.
15.77 = 1%, 5% required on level 70 targets.
Ergo, 79 with rounding.
I think I posted before I read your reply above mine. Thank you for the correction, I now must rid myself of 10 hit points.
Not a big deal. I've posted about it before, but I usually mention in passing that you need 79 hit.
I don't think I've ever really gone into detail of why our caps are the way they are here, unlike on the oboards.
Kavekk wrote:
5/5 Lethality: Crit does 230% damage, the multiplier only applies to the crit part.
400 resilience: Applies to the entire crit, - 205 of the entire crit.
So let's just take a 1000 base dmg Hemo:
2000 x 1.15 x 0.80 = 1840
You overestimate Lethality quite a bit :P
Yes, when multiplying the WHOLE crit then lethality 5/5 is 15% extra.
Ah, I was thinking of Lethality as being more than a boost to just the critical portion of the damage, but you're right.
So in my example, 300 resilience would've been a closer estimate than 400.
I dont know bout builds much, im more of a PvE guy myself
but i would use this site as a reference, and maybe will help some decide on what they want
http://www.wowwiki.com/Rogue_Builds
but i would use this site as a reference, and maybe will help some decide on what they want
http://www.wowwiki.com/Rogue_Builds
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