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#1 May 31 2008 at 6:48 PM Rating: Good
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I love my priest with the heat of a thousand suns. Tonight I was in the EPL putting poor Pamela's doll together, and I forgot that you get not one but two ghosties as soon as you go to grab the last piece.

They're level 55. I was level 51. Yep, that would be the dark red. And because I forgot they were there, they got the jump on me, so not even the benefit of starting at range, etc.

Finished the fight at 75% health.

Little to no mana though, because that's the thing with this class: a "bad" fight doesn't mean you die, it just means you drink.

And I'm not even good at playing casters. I can only imagine the feats of those of you whose reflexes weren't developed with Frogger.

People talk about the healing, the DPS, the nice buffs, but nobody really mentions the unkillability. Squishie, indeed.

Just another yay-priests thread, sorry. :)
#2 Jun 01 2008 at 11:42 AM Rating: Default
ahem...Prot pallies.

This is a reletive measurement.


Edited, Jun 1st 2008 3:42pm by hybrand
#3 Jun 01 2008 at 12:26 PM Rating: Good
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hybrand wrote:

This is a reletive measurement.


Agreed. I could do twice as many with my druid while eating nachos at the keyboard. But for a class that can only wear the pretty armor, personally I'm impressed with how much direct smacking priests can handle. I guess that was the point. Survivability and solo efficiency aren't generally mentioned among selling points for priests, but I think this is a great solo class.

Edited, Jun 1st 2008 4:28pm by teacake
#4 Jun 01 2008 at 3:35 PM Rating: Good
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teacake wrote:
hybrand wrote:

This is a reletive measurement.


Survivability and solo efficiency aren't generally mentioned among selling points for priests, but I think this is a great solo class.



Agree 100%, but I bet you saw that coming. :)

Paladins wear plate, I have seen paladins (and warriors also) with more armor on their helm than I have on every single piece I have equipped. A lot of people are so surprised to see a priest kicking butts and taking names, and it is fun to broaden their horizons.
#5 Jun 01 2008 at 5:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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Just this morning.

I was doing the Hellfire Peninsula pvp daily, the one where I have to capture The Overlook, the Stadium, and Broken Hill. My priest is level 64, and is Discipline specced--but not PvP-like. 5/5 Spirit Tap, 2/2 Healing Focus, 3/3 Renew, 5/5 Divine Fury, and Holy Nova are my off-spec points-- I've 38 points or so in Discipline, and I don't have PvP talents like Martyrdom, Blessed Will, Unbreakable Will, nor Improved Inner Fire.

So, it's established that I've PvE healing gear and a PvE Disc spec. Well, I was sitting there in the Overlook, alone, just watching that bar move to the red side. I usually always have Power Word: Shield on, but I was ambushed between PW:S refreshes.

It was a female night elf warrior. Level 70. I put on my shield, put on Devouring Plague and Shadow Word: Pain, Psychic Screamed, used two trinkets with Power Infusion and pulled off some Smites with a Mind Blast.

Rather than recalling every move in the entire fight, I'll just tell you that my general strategy was to keep Power Word: Shield up any time I could, use Psychic Scream when off cooldown, and have Renew ticking.

Now, if this were an arms or fury warrior, I'd have probably died. However, my combat log showed Devastates and Shield Slams, and I had 5 Sunders stacked on me. Between my Reflective Shield and Renew ticks, the warrior didn't get me down past half health every before I healed.

If I were the warrior, I'd be embarassed. A level 64 took down a level 70, even though the 70 had the ambush.

And this isn't actually a "DISC PRIESTS RAWK" so much as it is a "PROT WARRIORS NEED A DAMAGE BUFF". 6 levels difference should mean they win. It's bad that it's not so.




No, she wasn't a crappy warrior either. She used her moves effectively, had time to bandage and everything.
#6 Jun 01 2008 at 7:30 PM Rating: Decent
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did you armory her? Could have been a fresh 70 trying to get marks for the zangarmarsh stuff.
#7 Jun 01 2008 at 8:48 PM Rating: Good
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I armoried her, she's got a mix of blues and epics, Tankatronic goggles and everything.
#8 Jun 02 2008 at 11:10 AM Rating: Decent
That's... not good. At all.

For her, at least.
#9 Jun 04 2008 at 8:12 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
my combat log showed Devastates and Shield Slams, and I had 5 Sunders stacked on me.


Why would a warrior use threat generating abilities in PvP? Sunders on a clothie? Makes no sense. Did the warrior also disarm you? lol.

Sounds like the warrior was trying to tank you, but forgot that there was no DPS or healer to back them up....lol.

Nice job though. It's always nice to see a lower level take out a higher level.
#10 Jun 04 2008 at 2:35 PM Rating: Good
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YJMark wrote:
Sunders on a clothie? Makes no sense.


On the contrary, armor reduction moves are much more effective the lower the initial armor of the target is. Executioner and the like are minor to plate wearers, horrible to cloth wearers.

Grats on your victory, but...ah...you do realize it was a Prot warrior you beat, right? Prot warriors are probably the worst build in the game for PVP of any kind, much less against a pure caster. She's wearing Tanktronics, for god's sake. Her defense, probably a good portion of her item budget, is worthless against you, and her stamina doesn't mean a whole lot compared to your mana pool. Without any rage for burst--Power Word: Shield prevents rage generation while it's up--she really had no chance.

A six level difference is still impressive...just, you know. Prot Warrior.
#11 Jun 06 2008 at 4:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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emmitsvenson wrote:
Grats on your victory, but...ah...you do realize it was a Prot warrior you beat, right? A six level difference is still impressive...just, you know. Prot Warrior.


Raglu wrote:
Now, if this were an arms or fury warrior, I'd have probably died. However, my combat log showed Devastates and Shield Slams, and I had 5 Sunders stacked on me.


Raglu wrote:
And this isn't actually a "DISC PRIESTS RAWK" so much as it is a "PROT WARRIORS NEED A DAMAGE BUFF". 6 levels difference should mean they win. It's bad that it's not so.


I'm quite aware. ;P
#12 Jun 06 2008 at 4:21 PM Rating: Good
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emmitsvenson wrote:
YJMark wrote:
Sunders on a clothie? Makes no sense.


On the contrary, armor reduction moves are much more effective the lower the initial armor of the target is. Executioner and the like are minor to plate wearers, horrible to cloth wearers.


Also, just wanted to expand and agree on what you said here.

Armor does not scale linearly. You get more damage reduction, percentagewise, for the first 1000 armor, than you do for the second 1000 armor, which is less than the third 1000 armor...

At level 70, DR% = Armor / (Armor + (467.5 * AttackerLevel - 22167.5) (from WoWWiki).

Let's say a level 70 attacked you while you had 2000 armor.

Damage Reduction = 2000 / (2000 + (467.5 * 70 - 22167.5)
Damage Reduction = 2000 / (2000 + (32725 - 22167.5)
Damage Reduction = 2000 / (2000 + 10557.5)
Damage Reduction = 2000 / (12557.5)
Damage Reduction = 0.1593 = 15.93%

So, 2000 armor rating gives 15.93% damage reduction at level 70.

If it was linear, then we'd expect 1000 armor to give half of 15.93% damage reduction, being 7.97%.

Damage Reduction = 1000 / (1000 + 10557.5)
Damage Reduction = 1000 / 11557.5
Damage Reduction = 0.0865 = 8.65%, not 7.97%.

That first 1000 armor rating gave 0.68% more damage reduction than the second 1000 armor rating. As it goes higher and higher, the less each point armor does for you in terms of damage reduction. (There is, however, a linear increase in a different calculation called Effective Health which is about how much a stat increases your time to live, but that's a different can o' worms.)
#13 Jun 08 2008 at 3:42 AM Rating: Good
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The reason Sunder Armor was stacked on you was because he used Devastate. Not only does Devastate cause the Sunder Armor effect on hit, it also does more damage the more applications of Sunder Armor you have on you.

Edited, Jun 8th 2008 1:46pm by Mazra
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#14 Jun 08 2008 at 8:03 AM Rating: Good
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They're level 55. I was level 51. Yep, that would be the dark red.


Wouldn't a 4 level difference be orange? Not red?

Maybe my colors are off....

Other than that, good story! On a less impressive note, I took down 5 Defias looters/pillagers at once today on my level 20 Priest. Yes... they're 5 levels below me... but having three fireballs hit you every 2.5 seconds bites no matter what.
#15 Jun 09 2008 at 9:25 AM Rating: Good
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Armor does not scale linearly. You get more damage reduction, percentagewise, for the first 1000 armor, than you do for the second 1000 armor, which is less than the third 1000 armor...


I understand this, but just question if it is more effective than just hitting Heroic Strike.

Devastate = 50% damage + 15/sunder. Max = 50% damage + 75 (fully sunder-stacked).

Heroic Strike = 100% damage + 208

So even a fully sunder-stacked opponent will take less damage with Devastate than Heroic Strike. To even get close, you have to stack it 5x (unlike Heroic Strike that will hit you each time).

Now with a squishy, let's say they have 2000 armor. You stacked sunders, and brought their armor to 0. That would give you a 16% damage increase (per your calculation of 16% damage reduction). So now you'd have:

Devastate = 66% damage + 75 (fully sunder stacked).

At least, that is how I understand it.

If that is correct, it seems that Heroic Strike would always deal more damage, and should always be used in favor of Devastate against squishies.

Of course, I could have missed something. Please let me know, as I am curious.

Thanks.

#16 Jun 09 2008 at 1:27 PM Rating: Good
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YJMark wrote:
I understand this, but just question if it is more effective than just hitting Heroic Strike.


Heroic strike gimps a warrior's rage generation by turning his next white hit into a special attack. If he's up against a shielded opponent, such as a Priest or a Frost Mage, he's already thirsty for more red and doesn't want to make the situation worse. If he's specced for Devastate, it's probably his best option when in PVP against a clothie. It's not a great option, just the best one he has.

Good numbers on the scaling of armor, Raglu. New PVP Priests should see that curve and consider its significance in regards to the Inner Fire buff. Inner Fire isn't a huge amount of armor, but considering how low our armor is naturally, it's a huge amount of damage reduction against physical damage, especially when the opposition is using Executioner or other armor-reducing effects such as the ones built into the S4 gear previews.
#17 Jun 09 2008 at 6:52 PM Rating: Good
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LockeColeMA wrote:

Wouldn't a 4 level difference be orange? Not red?


I totally didn't believe you, so I looked it up, and yep, they were orange. Well pfft. My priest suxorz.
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