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#1 May 24 2008 at 1:16 AM Rating: Decent
stunlock...can someone tell me what spec i should use for that?
#2 May 24 2008 at 2:13 AM Rating: Decent
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Assassanation - Mutilate adds lots of combo points so you have 5 points up to kidney shot the guy right when he comes out of the cheap shot..

or maybe something with maces, cause they stun aswell.. but dont think this is as effective.. i never tried these myself

Edited, May 24th 2008 6:13am by Shivera
#3 May 24 2008 at 7:22 AM Rating: Decent
Both shadowstep and mutilate can stunlock.

Combat maces can't stunlock well, although i can keep the enemy stunned a fair deal.
#4 May 24 2008 at 9:19 AM Rating: Good
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Kavekk wrote:
Both shadowstep and mutilate can stunlock.

Combat maces can't stunlock well, although i can keep the enemy stunned a fair deal.


This.

My leveling rogue is combat maces just because, and stunlocks aren't as easy to come by as getting lucky with a stun proc inbetween my Kidney Shot cooldown and Gouge.
#5 May 24 2008 at 2:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Stunlock is dead at 70.
#6 May 24 2008 at 3:49 PM Rating: Decent
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"Theo" wrote:
Stunlock is dead at 70


Pretty much so I guess. At least that's what I noticed when I started doing 70's BGs exclusively. Granted, my PvP gear is pretty crappy right now, but even if I'd get the AP and crit I'm currently missing, it's unlikely to get a player to less than half health before running out of cooldowns and energy.

I mean what's the best case scenario? CS, then a muti crit for a 5 point KS...If latency lets you, you might get 2 more mutis in, to leave you with a bunch of CPs that you can use for anything but another KS since it will be on cooldown for quite a while longer.

Different story with most quest mobs though. They usually don't make it out of the KS. Wish it would be that easy with other players :)
#7 May 24 2008 at 11:25 PM Rating: Default
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Kanngarnix wrote:
"Theo" wrote:
Stunlock is dead at 70


Pretty much so I guess. At least that's what I noticed when I started doing 70's BGs exclusively. Granted, my PvP gear is pretty crappy right now, but even if I'd get the AP and crit I'm currently missing, it's unlikely to get a player to less than half health before running out of cooldowns and energy.

I mean what's the best case scenario? CS, then a muti crit for a 5 point KS...If latency lets you, you might get 2 more mutis in, to leave you with a bunch of CPs that you can use for anything but another KS since it will be on cooldown for quite a while longer.

Different story with most quest mobs though. They usually don't make it out of the KS. Wish it would be that easy with other players :)

You're forgetting Gouge, Blind... CS, KS, Gouge/blind, restealth and repeat. Requires proper timing
#8 May 25 2008 at 6:25 AM Rating: Decent
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Not forgetting them, just not including them in my definition of stun. Besides, more than proper timing, it requires having plenty of time with your opponent without any interference, and seeing how much health you need to chew through, it's just very unlikely.
#9 May 25 2008 at 1:08 PM Rating: Good
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arukomp wrote:
Kanngarnix wrote:
"Theo" wrote:
Stunlock is dead at 70


Pretty much so I guess. At least that's what I noticed when I started doing 70's BGs exclusively. Granted, my PvP gear is pretty crappy right now, but even if I'd get the AP and crit I'm currently missing, it's unlikely to get a player to less than half health before running out of cooldowns and energy.

I mean what's the best case scenario? CS, then a muti crit for a 5 point KS...If latency lets you, you might get 2 more mutis in, to leave you with a bunch of CPs that you can use for anything but another KS since it will be on cooldown for quite a while longer.

Different story with most quest mobs though. They usually don't make it out of the KS. Wish it would be that easy with other players :)

You're forgetting Gouge, Blind... CS, KS, Gouge/blind, restealth and repeat. Requires proper timing

Not forgetting at all. Gouge isn't used as a stunlock, it's used as a CC, it costs too much energy to be used for anything but.

Your suggestion of Blind being used in a stunlock is also increibly bad, as using Blind should be saved for a CC target, chained with Vanish and a Sap.
#10 May 25 2008 at 2:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Overlord Theophany wrote:
Stunlock is dead at 70 assuming your opponent has some decent gear.


FTFY. I'm doing 70s BGs and I'm finding quite a few clothies I can whittle down with a simple CS, Hemo, KS routine. Mostly it's the fresh 70s that haven't bought their first set of Glad/Vindicator gear.
#11 May 27 2008 at 12:37 PM Rating: Decent
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103 posts
Overlord Theophany wrote:
arukomp wrote:
Kanngarnix wrote:
"Theo" wrote:
Stunlock is dead at 70


Pretty much so I guess. At least that's what I noticed when I started doing 70's BGs exclusively. Granted, my PvP gear is pretty crappy right now, but even if I'd get the AP and crit I'm currently missing, it's unlikely to get a player to less than half health before running out of cooldowns and energy.

I mean what's the best case scenario? CS, then a muti crit for a 5 point KS...If latency lets you, you might get 2 more mutis in, to leave you with a bunch of CPs that you can use for anything but another KS since it will be on cooldown for quite a while longer.

Different story with most quest mobs though. They usually don't make it out of the KS. Wish it would be that easy with other players :)

You're forgetting Gouge, Blind... CS, KS, Gouge/blind, restealth and repeat. Requires proper timing

Not forgetting at all. Gouge isn't used as a stunlock, it's used as a CC, it costs too much energy to be used for anything but.

Your suggestion of Blind being used in a stunlock is also increibly bad, as using Blind should be saved for a CC target, chained with Vanish and a Sap.

Ok. sorry for bad suggestions. I thought gouge would be a part of stunlock, because it keeps enemy from doing something and if talented, allows to restealth and open up with another cs ks wave.
#12 May 27 2008 at 12:50 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:

Not forgetting at all. Gouge isn't used as a stunlock, it's used as a CC, it costs too much energy to be used for anything but.


Hardly true. If you are stunlocking and have imp gouge then using gouge is a free 10 energy. 45 energy, lasts 5.5 seconds. You also gain a combo point. Gouge can and should be used if you're, for example, sub mut with 3/3 imp gouge and stunlocking someone. There's always the chance of a restealth, too.

Stunlock to death is pretty much dead vs well geared opponents though, yeah.

Edited, May 27th 2008 4:50pm by Kavekk
#13 May 27 2008 at 1:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Gouge can and should be used if you're, for example, sub mut with 3/3 imp gouge and stunlocking someone. There's always the chance of a restealth, too.


Unlikely - unless you don't apply wound poison - which would cause yet another set of troublesome issues.
#14 May 27 2008 at 6:12 PM Rating: Good
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Isn't Gouge also effective in that it serves to bring the Kidney Shot cooldown close enough for the lock part of a stunlock?
#15 May 27 2008 at 6:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Kavekk wrote:
Quote:

Not forgetting at all. Gouge isn't used as a stunlock, it's used as a CC, it costs too much energy to be used for anything but.


Hardly true. If you are stunlocking and have imp gouge then using gouge is a free 10 energy. 45 energy, lasts 5.5 seconds. You also gain a combo point. Gouge can and should be used if you're, for example, sub mut with 3/3 imp gouge and stunlocking someone. There's always the chance of a restealth, too.

Stunlock to death is pretty much dead vs well geared opponents though, yeah.

Edited, May 27th 2008 4:50pm by Kavekk

Sub mut with 3/3 imp gouge?

What kind of fail build is that?

I've said it before and I'll say it again: gouge is not something you use on your main target except to set up a KS on resist targets (orcs, warriors, priests, etc).
#16 May 27 2008 at 6:58 PM Rating: Decent
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In addition, I've always wondered why rogues (maybe it's the ones who don't have a mob cooldown watcher) Cheapshot mages when the mages can Blink out of them (assuming the mages' Blinks are not on cooldown)...?

Pretty much a waste of an opener when you can silence them with Garrote (I don't know the Energy issues though...)?

I dunno.

Edited, May 27th 2008 9:58pm by Pinkbullet
#17 May 27 2008 at 7:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Pinkbullet wrote:
In addition, I've always wondered why rogues (maybe it's the ones who don't have a mob cooldown watcher) Cheapshot mages when the mages can Blink out of them (assuming the mages' Blinks are not on cooldown)...?

Pretty much a waste of an opener when you can silence them with Garrote (I don't know the Energy issues though...)?

I dunno.

Edited, May 27th 2008 9:58pm by Pinkbullet

Baiting Blink. If a Mage Blinks out of CS, they're gonna have to blow Ice Block, if they don't, it can go either way.
#18 May 27 2008 at 8:15 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:

Sub mut with 3/3 imp gouge?

What kind of fail build is that?


It's not fail for 1v1, which is the only place I'd try a stunlock solo. Who else would you use Gouge on in 1v1? There's nothing else to gouge, and it gains you energy and a combo point and gives KSot time to count down.

---

CS + premed ona mage is done to bait blink. You then ShS or sprint up (pref ShS) to them and Kshot. They then get their *** handed to them or Iceblock. Garrote is an option, but you can get RNGd by frostbite procs and most of the damage probably won't tick.

Edited, May 28th 2008 12:19am by Kavekk
#19 May 27 2008 at 8:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Kavekk wrote:
Quote:

Sub mut with 3/3 imp gouge?

What kind of fail build is that?


It's not fail for 1v1, which is the only place I'd try a stunlock solo. Who else would you use Gouge on in 1v1? There's nothing else to gouge, and it gains you energy and a combo point and gives KSot time to count down.

Gouge to prevent resists, blocks, dodges on KS.
#20 May 27 2008 at 8:28 PM Rating: Decent
Overlord Theophany wrote:
Kavekk wrote:
Quote:

Sub mut with 3/3 imp gouge?

What kind of fail build is that?


It's not fail for 1v1, which is the only place I'd try a stunlock solo. Who else would you use Gouge on in 1v1? There's nothing else to gouge, and it gains you energy and a combo point and gives KSot time to count down.

Gouge to prevent resists, blocks, dodges on KS.


Gouge doesn't prevent resist on a stun, does it? It would be illogical for that to be the case, and seeing as Orcs have resisted my KS with CS active I find it hard to believe.

I KS with .2 left on CS, anyway (I have about 90 to 140 latency, so playing it safe). If you mean the second KS then yeah, I'd agree, but then you failed at stunlocking. Or, well, their gear didn't fail at stunlocking, rather.
#21 May 27 2008 at 8:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Kavekk wrote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:
Kavekk wrote:
Quote:

Sub mut with 3/3 imp gouge?

What kind of fail build is that?


It's not fail for 1v1, which is the only place I'd try a stunlock solo. Who else would you use Gouge on in 1v1? There's nothing else to gouge, and it gains you energy and a combo point and gives KSot time to count down.

Gouge to prevent resists, blocks, dodges on KS.


Gouge doesn't prevent resist on a stun, does it? It would be illogical for that to be the case, and seeing as Orcs have resisted my KS with CS active I find it hard to believe.

I KS with .2 left on CS, anyway (I have about 90 to 140 latency, so playing it safe). If you mean the second KS then yeah, I'd agree, but then you failed at stunlocking. Or, well, their gear didn't fail at stunlocking, rather.

If something is incapacitated, it can't resist, block, or dodge.
#22 May 27 2008 at 9:06 PM Rating: Decent
Overlord Theophany wrote:
Kavekk wrote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:
Kavekk wrote:
Quote:

Sub mut with 3/3 imp gouge?

What kind of fail build is that?


It's not fail for 1v1, which is the only place I'd try a stunlock solo. Who else would you use Gouge on in 1v1? There's nothing else to gouge, and it gains you energy and a combo point and gives KSot time to count down.

Gouge to prevent resists, blocks, dodges on KS.


Gouge doesn't prevent resist on a stun, does it? It would be illogical for that to be the case, and seeing as Orcs have resisted my KS with CS active I find it hard to believe.

I KS with .2 left on CS, anyway (I have about 90 to 140 latency, so playing it safe). If you mean the second KS then yeah, I'd agree, but then you failed at stunlocking. Or, well, their gear didn't fail at stunlocking, rather.

If something is incapacitated, it can't resist, block, or dodge.


I cannot find this information anywhere at all (checked Wowiki (lol) AJ and Google). Got a link?

#23 May 27 2008 at 9:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Nothing other than my experience.
#24 May 28 2008 at 11:03 AM Rating: Decent
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one thing to remember when your stunlocking,

some stunlock strategies for anyone:
1) Open with CS
2) build up 4-5 CPs and save a little energy.
3)If the target uses their pvp trinket: KS as soon as possible
if not, KS about a second after CS wears off (make it fast so they cant use any instants).
4) During KS, damage as always but save enough energy for a blind. easier to do with SHS spec.
5) when KS ends, if the target already used their trinket, blind them, bandange if need be, restealth ASAP, then sap. if they didnt use their trinket use gouge to try and force them to trinket, then pop blind anyways and try to stealth asap.
6) sap them (after restealthing) and build up energy or bandage [almost everyone has their trinket down at this point]
7) wait till blind is almost over then CS again, if you waited long enough there will be no diminishing returns.
8) use KS
from here the target should be mostly down or dead, if they arent you might want to vanish and run. you should still have vanish ready unless things went wrong, and if your SHS you have 2 vanishes ready thanks to prep. you could also swap in a dagger while the target is sapped and do an ambush if you feel comfortable w/it. CS > vanish > ambush works decently if you need some bursty damage. you have to sacrifice points in improved ambush to make this really worth while and it wont be as effective in high rated arenas.

the key is to not rush, try and force them to trinket before using your next stun, and always save a little energy to blind them when they do trinket (or to vanish -> CS or vanish -> sap if your out of combat)

Edited, Jun 10th 2008 3:42pm by EnthalpyTheBurninator
#25 Jun 03 2008 at 4:35 AM Rating: Decent
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i say save yourself the trouble and go all PvE haha jk
but i dont have much experience in PvP as i spend my time PvE'ing
so keep debating lol
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