http://www.war-tools.com/t52345.html
EDIT: Above link was taken down by Bliz's request, here's the current one (Thanks Duedain!)
http://www.war-tools.com/?p=vt&i=41912
Good golly Miss Molly, as a Moonkin, these are amazing! Moonkin Aura giving Spell Haste with crits? Starfire crits increasing Wrath damage and Wrath crits increasing Starfall crit chance? Natures reach reducing threat from Balance spells? Whoo hoo! Brambles making Thorns and Treants having a chance to daze is pretty nice too. And the resto talents are pretty cool too.
Edited, May 23rd 2008 5:48am by Micros
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WotLK Alpha Druid TalentsFollow
Wow! Those feral talents look amazing too! Improved Mangle, not to mention adding that bleed effect to mangle and Berserk at the end acting kind of like a Beast Within 41 point talent from the Beast Mastery tree of hunters. Not to mention the talent to reduce spell damage taken certainly helps us in damage mitigation against casters.
I'm awful skeptical on the feral talents; we already come perilously close to the armor cap, another 12% doesn't seem feasible. And the imp mangle has cooldown reduction listed in percentages instead of seconds, which doesn't make sense.
51pt resto is pretty worthless too lol. 665 healed? That's less than most aoe ticks, let alone melee hits from raid mobs...
51pt resto is pretty worthless too lol. 665 healed? That's less than most aoe ticks, let alone melee hits from raid mobs...
You know, people always pick the stupidest things to go "lol, no, those can't possibly be real!". Like how much the ability heals, especially given that it's rank 1 (i.e. level 60 version) and would, you know, scale. After all, at base strength Lifebloom is 873 healing over 7 seconds (including Bloom). But that's not very much healing at all, I guess the spell is crap and must be fake!
...right. Anyway, there's now a rather high number of screenshots up from people in the Alpha confirming the leaked notes; the talents are real. Some of the information on the WotLK Wiki is more up to date than the talent tree someone constructed. There's also new spell info.
...right. Anyway, there's now a rather high number of screenshots up from people in the Alpha confirming the leaked notes; the talents are real. Some of the information on the WotLK Wiki is more up to date than the talent tree someone constructed. There's also new spell info.
Quote:
* Entangling Roots can now be used indoors as well.
* Base damage of Maul, Rake and Ravage has been increased.
* Demoralizing Roar now removes more attack power than before.
* Soothe Animal is now instant cast.
* Tiger's Fury no longer costs energy, but now has a 30 second cooldown.
* Hurricane cooldown has been removed.
* Frenzied Regeneration now only has one rank. Frenzied Regeneration will now restore 0.1% of your max health per rage instead.
* Ferocious Bite's damage for extra energy now scales with attack power.
* Nature's Grasp can now be used indoors as well.
* Nature's Reach now reduces threat generated by your Balance spells by 15/30% in addition to it's old effect.
* Brambles now gives your Thorns and Treants a 5/10/15% chance to daze the target for 3 seconds when dealing damage in addition to it's old effect.
* Omen of Clarity is now a passive effect instead of a self-cast buff.
* Feral Charge is now available in Cat Form as well.
* Improved Mark of the Wild has been reduced to a 2 point talent, increasing the effect of Mark of the Wild by 20/40%.
* Nature's Focus has been reduced to a 3 point talent, now reducing chance to be interrupted by 23/46/70%.
* Subtlety has been reduced to a three point talent, now reducing threat and reducing the chance your spells will be dispelled by 10/20/30%
* Improved Tranquility now reduces the cooldown of your Tranquility spell by 25/50% in addition to it's old effect.
* Improved Faerie Fire works for spells too now.
* Survival of the Fittest's effect has been doubled.
* Tree of Life can cast the new Flourish spell. Old extra healing aura has been removed and replaced with Bark's Blessing, which increases healing done on target's of your healing spells by 25% of your spirit for 8 seconds.
* Mangle (Bear) now increases the damage of your Maul ability instead of the Shred ability.
* Base damage of Maul, Rake and Ravage has been increased.
* Demoralizing Roar now removes more attack power than before.
* Soothe Animal is now instant cast.
* Tiger's Fury no longer costs energy, but now has a 30 second cooldown.
* Hurricane cooldown has been removed.
* Frenzied Regeneration now only has one rank. Frenzied Regeneration will now restore 0.1% of your max health per rage instead.
* Ferocious Bite's damage for extra energy now scales with attack power.
* Nature's Grasp can now be used indoors as well.
* Nature's Reach now reduces threat generated by your Balance spells by 15/30% in addition to it's old effect.
* Brambles now gives your Thorns and Treants a 5/10/15% chance to daze the target for 3 seconds when dealing damage in addition to it's old effect.
* Omen of Clarity is now a passive effect instead of a self-cast buff.
* Feral Charge is now available in Cat Form as well.
* Improved Mark of the Wild has been reduced to a 2 point talent, increasing the effect of Mark of the Wild by 20/40%.
* Nature's Focus has been reduced to a 3 point talent, now reducing chance to be interrupted by 23/46/70%.
* Subtlety has been reduced to a three point talent, now reducing threat and reducing the chance your spells will be dispelled by 10/20/30%
* Improved Tranquility now reduces the cooldown of your Tranquility spell by 25/50% in addition to it's old effect.
* Improved Faerie Fire works for spells too now.
* Survival of the Fittest's effect has been doubled.
* Tree of Life can cast the new Flourish spell. Old extra healing aura has been removed and replaced with Bark's Blessing, which increases healing done on target's of your healing spells by 25% of your spirit for 8 seconds.
* Mangle (Bear) now increases the damage of your Maul ability instead of the Shred ability.
RPZip wrote:
Quote:
* Entangling Roots can now be used indoors as well.
* Hurricane cooldown has been removed.
* Hurricane cooldown has been removed.
YEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSS!
#6REDACTED,
Posted: May 22 2008 at 5:56 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Not believing any of this. Indoor Roots... Tiger's Fury being of some use... People have been trying to get Blizzard's attention for years now without any success. Why now? Why would it take an expansion to make changes or fixes that could have been done via patch a long time ago?
RPZip wrote:
* Feral Charge is now available in Cat Form as well.
I really cannot help but laugh a little bit at how this would look.
kind of skeptical about the "improved tol" form
plus the master shapeshifter which seems it almost forces you to put points into to get the +heal from TOL form now.
Not a fan of the tranquil spirit reducing threat either from 100% to 50% now.
Maybe add another talent point seperate from that to allow the cooldown but keep the threat reduced.
It's still early though so I'm curious to see how all these shake out and what will stick or what won't.
plus the master shapeshifter which seems it almost forces you to put points into to get the +heal from TOL form now.
Not a fan of the tranquil spirit reducing threat either from 100% to 50% now.
Maybe add another talent point seperate from that to allow the cooldown but keep the threat reduced.
It's still early though so I'm curious to see how all these shake out and what will stick or what won't.
Quote:
Omen of Clarity is now a passive effect instead of a self-cast buff
Wow, removed timers? More power and instant casts? Of course remember this is the Alpha notes.
Quote:
Why now? Why would it take an expansion to make changes or fixes that could have been done via patch a long time ago?
Well this has been posted on the Oboards in every class forums; US and EU, for the last 6 months. So why not?
Quote:
We're currently gathering class feedback from players for Wrath of the Lich King concerning thoughts on the areas of each class that is perceived to be most in need of improvement. This thread is not intended for discussion purposes and we ask that you please review the below format before presenting your feedback. It's very important for us to be able to review all provided feedback and as a result, not following the required format will very likely result in your post being removed.
* List your primary talent tree(s), i.e. Holy/Disc.
* List the content you're primarily pursuing or most enjoy, i.e. Raiding, PvP, Solo, etc...
* Provide a brief description of the areas you feel are most in need of improvement (you may list a maximum of three issues and each issue should be described in one or two sentences).
* List up to five specific spells/abilities/talents you feel most need change, redesign or improvement in the order you feel each is most in need of attention. (MOST to LESS)
Please remember to be constructive when providing feedback, and avoid discussions with others so that this thread can remain a promising and reliable source for feedback. It's also important to note that we're not looking for suggestions on how aspects of your class can be improved, but rather which areas are in need of improvement by your own assessment. When we have collected enough feedback we will reply back to this thread thanking everyone for their assistance, and the thread will be locked. Thank you very much for your participation!
Druid (US): Class Feedback Requested
Edited, May 22nd 2008 11:44am by GryphonStalker
RPZip wrote:
You know, people always pick the stupidest things to go "lol, no, those can't possibly be real!". Like how much the ability heals, especially given that it's rank 1 (i.e. level 60 version) and would, you know, scale. After all, at base strength Lifebloom is 873 healing over 7 seconds (including Bloom). But that's not very much healing at all, I guess the spell is crap and must be fake!
...I'm sorry for being suspicious in the age of the internet where people get off on spreading misinformation for the hell of it?
I didn't rip into the guy for posting it, I just said I was skeptical...given that's the same website where people make all of their joke talent trees, I'd say I have reason to be.
And I didn't think about including +heal effects and so forth on the resto one, obviously. With that in mind it's definitely a much better spell.
Edited, May 22nd 2008 12:03pm by Norellicus
I am also pretty skeptical, it's possible they are real, but the fact that some (not just druid) issues/ideas that have been nagged about for a long time are finally being addressed (warriors being able to one-hand wield 2Hers like Barbarians for example, or roots indoors) sound suspicious (just because they are long-lasting topics).
I'm not gonna shoot them down as fake patch notes, but I'm not gonna get too excited either. Even if they are real, this is just alpha and a lot can still change.
I'm not gonna shoot them down as fake patch notes, but I'm not gonna get too excited either. Even if they are real, this is just alpha and a lot can still change.
The Link for the talents was "removed" at the request of Blizzard. Here is a new one that will hopefully work for a while.
http://www.war-tools.com/?p=vt&i=41912
New talents look cool. I liked the balance one that up's attack by 25% in any beast form. Really help my attack chicken in solo'ing.
http://www.war-tools.com/?p=vt&i=41912
New talents look cool. I liked the balance one that up's attack by 25% in any beast form. Really help my attack chicken in solo'ing.
Quote:
I'm awful skeptical on the feral talents; we already come perilously close to the armor cap, another 12% doesn't seem feasible. And the imp mangle has cooldown reduction listed in percentages instead of seconds, which doesn't make sense.
51pt resto is pretty worthless too lol. 665 healed? That's less than most aoe ticks, let alone melee hits from raid mobs...
51pt resto is pretty worthless too lol. 665 healed? That's less than most aoe ticks, let alone melee hits from raid mobs...
Armor cap went up for Burning Crusades. Why wouldn't it go up for Wrath? If mobs are going to hit harder and be stronger, wouldn't it make sense that our still unable to parry/block furry butts would need more hp@armor to mitigate it?
The cooldown is probably in percent because 21% sounds better than reduces by 1.26 secs heh at least to me it does.
The resto spell was already addressed so I'll leave that be.
Just throwing out my opinion on what you said, no digs intended
theyre chucking the changes in during the xpac because thats what xpacs do; really shake things up. putting all of these changes into a base patch would totally fubar the current balance of things, not to mention create so much anti-druid sentiment ("why is this the druid patch QQ?!?!?!") that it would be insane. so instead, they lump all the big changes into the xpac, therefore sidestepping the whole size issue as well as being able to change all classes at once.
anyways, as for the talents, i can say im actually really excited to try out the balance stuff. ive never really liked the balance playstyle, but boy the new stuff makes it look fun!
Edited, May 22nd 2008 1:05pm by Quor
anyways, as for the talents, i can say im actually really excited to try out the balance stuff. ive never really liked the balance playstyle, but boy the new stuff makes it look fun!
Edited, May 22nd 2008 1:05pm by Quor
5 stackable 15% nature res loss... Yes Please.
The whole rooting into the ground as a tree also seems like it could be fun.
Oh and Tornado... I forsee much fun with this.
The whole rooting into the ground as a tree also seems like it could be fun.
Oh and Tornado... I forsee much fun with this.
Alot of good changes for feral, and seems like it will be well balanced judging by the changes in other classes. After seeing the talent tree it was nice to see the diversity in feral builds. Not one spec fits all anymore. Now there is significant difference between PvP and PvE builds, and even a difference between full tanking and full DPS for raiding. Yet it is still possible to do a very effective offtank PvE spec for switching between roles. There is good balance for multiple playstyles, and each playstyle is balanced in its relative bracket.
In tanking, feral druid is now the weakest multimob tank. Warriors, paladins and death knights are all more effective in generating threat across multiple targets. However, we are still the highest single target threat tank, followed by warriors who also got a nice boost. In mitigation, the new armor talent would seem to indicate that the armor cap increase to 80 is not going to be linearly increasing the same it was from 60-70. This talent will offset that increase by some amount so we won't be as effected by the ramped up armor cap. But it will effect every other class so the relative difference in sheer armor that already sets ferals apart will be magnified.
Interesting things to note is the change to Survival of the Fittest talent, which would make druid tanks crit immune with just talents. This would make it significantly easier to itemise for feral without having to create different sets of gear for tanking and dps. No more having to substitute PvP gear for tanking to stay crit immune.
A bonus if running 5 mans, feral is the only tank that can CC with the new and improved roots. It'll be a great way to start pulls, maybe cyclone one too and take two out of the action for the first 6 seconds. Infected wound will be nice, don't have to worry about runners. Bear dps got a big boost in the way of maul, it'll be nice to see those crits. Top it all off, we finally have a real "oh sh*t!" button.
Cat form is now the king of crit, with a natural crit with shred over 50%. Combo points will flow like water~ Talent to increase expertise and refund energy back on missed finishers will be nice too. Tiger's Fury is actually good now but doesn't scale so it will probably lose its luster with time. It'll be fun, but I'm not sure yet how we will compare.
Feral's biggest boosts though are in PvP. Starting with the buff to maul, we're not toothless in bear form so going defensive doesn't mean turtle anymore. Infected wound is a huge buff, allowing us to take full advantage of our mobility and giving stronger anti-caster tools. Feral charge in cat is big too, further enhancing our mobility and interupts. But a 20 second free-for-all on a target with double energy? That's a 5 minute I win button. I've heard that defense curl is fake however, and I'd tend to agree since it doesn't seem balanced with the other changes in mind. I have a feeling feral will be a strong arena contender without it though, and possibly even the preferred PvP spec for druid. Resto has found a definate counter class in the deathknight, creating an obvious counter to the resto/dps teams that dominate 2v2s.
Even after balancing I'm looking forward to these changes and I'll probably have to leave my plans of leveling a death knight on hold for a while after release.
Edited, May 22nd 2008 9:13pm by SirJac
In tanking, feral druid is now the weakest multimob tank. Warriors, paladins and death knights are all more effective in generating threat across multiple targets. However, we are still the highest single target threat tank, followed by warriors who also got a nice boost. In mitigation, the new armor talent would seem to indicate that the armor cap increase to 80 is not going to be linearly increasing the same it was from 60-70. This talent will offset that increase by some amount so we won't be as effected by the ramped up armor cap. But it will effect every other class so the relative difference in sheer armor that already sets ferals apart will be magnified.
Interesting things to note is the change to Survival of the Fittest talent, which would make druid tanks crit immune with just talents. This would make it significantly easier to itemise for feral without having to create different sets of gear for tanking and dps. No more having to substitute PvP gear for tanking to stay crit immune.
A bonus if running 5 mans, feral is the only tank that can CC with the new and improved roots. It'll be a great way to start pulls, maybe cyclone one too and take two out of the action for the first 6 seconds. Infected wound will be nice, don't have to worry about runners. Bear dps got a big boost in the way of maul, it'll be nice to see those crits. Top it all off, we finally have a real "oh sh*t!" button.
Cat form is now the king of crit, with a natural crit with shred over 50%. Combo points will flow like water~ Talent to increase expertise and refund energy back on missed finishers will be nice too. Tiger's Fury is actually good now but doesn't scale so it will probably lose its luster with time. It'll be fun, but I'm not sure yet how we will compare.
Feral's biggest boosts though are in PvP. Starting with the buff to maul, we're not toothless in bear form so going defensive doesn't mean turtle anymore. Infected wound is a huge buff, allowing us to take full advantage of our mobility and giving stronger anti-caster tools. Feral charge in cat is big too, further enhancing our mobility and interupts. But a 20 second free-for-all on a target with double energy? That's a 5 minute I win button. I've heard that defense curl is fake however, and I'd tend to agree since it doesn't seem balanced with the other changes in mind. I have a feeling feral will be a strong arena contender without it though, and possibly even the preferred PvP spec for druid. Resto has found a definate counter class in the deathknight, creating an obvious counter to the resto/dps teams that dominate 2v2s.
Even after balancing I'm looking forward to these changes and I'll probably have to leave my plans of leveling a death knight on hold for a while after release.
Edited, May 22nd 2008 9:13pm by SirJac
SirJac wrote:
Interesting things to note is the change to Survival of the Fittest talent, which would make druid tanks crit immune with just talents. This would make it significantly easier to itemise for feral without having to create different sets of gear for tanking and dps. No more having to substitute PvP gear for tanking to stay crit immune.
I completely missed that when I was projecting my current 1/46/14 (figuring we'll get a free respec, saving me a whopping 15g), as well as Omen being a passive buff. I did notice the big PvP buffs for ferals, figured a DK would be a counter to the druid/warrior 2v2... oh and finally a Last Stand, which also doubles as an "I win" button... it is starting to look like the couple of ferals in my guild who prefer to DPS will get to do just that.
It will be interesting to see what unfolds as we learn more about the expansion. At this time seeing all the buffs and changes is making me want to get my druid to 80 ASAP, then check out a DK or level my other toons to 80.
deleted
Edited, Aug 27th 2008 12:40am by kawainui
Edited, Aug 27th 2008 12:40am by kawainui
So for this new "proposed" tree wouldn't it be worth it for a Feral Druid to put some points in the Balance tree to get the "Killer Instincts" talent?
This build looks like it would be wicked with "Killer Instincts" (adding 50% attack increase of your intellect) and "Heart of the Wild" (adding 20% to your intelligence) etc.
http://www.war-tools.com/t41912.html?b=95c322012002p5002321303220253312351051z00
Although I prefer Crit Chicken I am rolling another Druid (which will go feral until about 60) which I plan to Tree for end game. I am tired of re-speccing and I want two druids.
Thoughts on this build would be entertaining.
Edited, May 23rd 2008 1:23pm by Duedain
This build looks like it would be wicked with "Killer Instincts" (adding 50% attack increase of your intellect) and "Heart of the Wild" (adding 20% to your intelligence) etc.
http://www.war-tools.com/t41912.html?b=95c322012002p5002321303220253312351051z00
Although I prefer Crit Chicken I am rolling another Druid (which will go feral until about 60) which I plan to Tree for end game. I am tired of re-speccing and I want two druids.
Thoughts on this build would be entertaining.
Edited, May 23rd 2008 1:23pm by Duedain
Even ignoring the possible new low-end Resto talents, Naturalist, OoC, and Furor (Powershifting) are a lot better than 50% of a non-core stat as AP.
weeedoggy wrote:
RPZip wrote:
* Feral Charge is now available in Cat Form as well.
I really cannot help but laugh a little bit at how this would look.
Why not? Feline predators will outcharge any super bear any day of the week.
its not like real world physics really apply here. we do play shapeshifting magic users after all.
Quote:
This build looks like it would be wicked with "Killer Instincts" (adding 50% attack increase of your intellect) and "Heart of the Wild" (adding 20% to your intelligence) etc.
How much intellect do you really have in feral form and is it really worth the 10% more damage you can get from naturalist along with furor and Natural Shapeshifter?
Killer instincts doesn't exist. That talent tree isn't the alpha talents but instead just something that someone came up with. I believe the real alpha talent trees were taken down by request of blizzard so I'm not sure if there are any sites with them still intact.
Well...dunno what in this would be real and what wouldn't. And even the real ones, what would really stick after Alfa, Beta and, finally, release.
Anyway, I still see some problems to feral form in Arena. The main thing would be what is the actual problem today. Resillience. It kills feral druids in arena. Not so much in bgs, but Arena...you're a crit dependant class, wih a crit dependant build, with crit dependant damage. And all your crits are negated by resillience. Now you're deade. And I don't see a solution to this problem on what was posted.
That being said, I liked the "changes" made for feral dps concerning pve. The main problem for me today, trying to do 5 man pugs, is...I don't have CCs.
Yes, I can go bear form and eat some hits, but in mght, for example, where it lies the single best dps trinket for feral druids, if I dont go as a healer or a tanker, I just don't go, because no one wants a dpser there that doesnt have at least a serious CC (read it mage, rogues and, sometimes, a lock). So, for 5 mans, feral now would have an CC that would work for a while.
Raid concerning, I see a feral druid dps finally having their raid spot. I mean, nowadays, you pick a feral druid offtank for the 5% crit aura and that's it. You don't count him as an dpser so much, since your dps warrior wil have a higher dps if you have a shaman droping WF in your group (and you will always have a shaman droping WF in an melee group) than a feral druid. Same with rogues, they will have higher dps than feral druids, giving they have similar skill and gear. Anyway, I can see, now, a reason to have an dps feral druid in a raid besides his aura.
About tanking, I see the bear tank still going the same way he is now. And I see this as a good thing. You know, the old "dont change a winning team". Feral druid tank are good as they are now, and with those talents it seens Blizzard is keeping them the way they work now.
I wont comment about tree and moonkin, since they are not my real concern.
Anyway, I still see some problems to feral form in Arena. The main thing would be what is the actual problem today. Resillience. It kills feral druids in arena. Not so much in bgs, but Arena...you're a crit dependant class, wih a crit dependant build, with crit dependant damage. And all your crits are negated by resillience. Now you're deade. And I don't see a solution to this problem on what was posted.
That being said, I liked the "changes" made for feral dps concerning pve. The main problem for me today, trying to do 5 man pugs, is...I don't have CCs.
Yes, I can go bear form and eat some hits, but in mght, for example, where it lies the single best dps trinket for feral druids, if I dont go as a healer or a tanker, I just don't go, because no one wants a dpser there that doesnt have at least a serious CC (read it mage, rogues and, sometimes, a lock). So, for 5 mans, feral now would have an CC that would work for a while.
Raid concerning, I see a feral druid dps finally having their raid spot. I mean, nowadays, you pick a feral druid offtank for the 5% crit aura and that's it. You don't count him as an dpser so much, since your dps warrior wil have a higher dps if you have a shaman droping WF in your group (and you will always have a shaman droping WF in an melee group) than a feral druid. Same with rogues, they will have higher dps than feral druids, giving they have similar skill and gear. Anyway, I can see, now, a reason to have an dps feral druid in a raid besides his aura.
About tanking, I see the bear tank still going the same way he is now. And I see this as a good thing. You know, the old "dont change a winning team". Feral druid tank are good as they are now, and with those talents it seens Blizzard is keeping them the way they work now.
I wont comment about tree and moonkin, since they are not my real concern.
Brisin wrote:
That being said, I liked the "changes" made for feral dps concerning pve. The main problem for me today, trying to do 5 man pugs, is...I don't have CCs.
Yes, I can go bear form and eat some hits, but in mght, for example, where it lies the single best dps trinket for feral druids, if I dont go as a healer or a tanker, I just don't go, because no one wants a dpser there that doesnt have at least a serious CC (read it mage, rogues and, sometimes, a lock).
Same thing as a Balance druid. I mean, I can main heal it (Have in the past) but that was in a group that was me, a tank, a lock and 2 mages.
Which makes it a pain in the *** to get the pheonix pet or hawkstrider mount. :(
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