EDIT: Looks like Blizzard leant on the wowtools people, all the WotLK trees are gone
EDIT The SecondAn unofficial site is hosting them now at http://war-tools.darlinganime.com/index.php?i=warlock
There it is, a consolidation of the information recently "leaked" from the WotLK 'Friends and Family' Alpha Release. The wiki can be found here: http://wotlk.wikidot.com/
This is certainly not the final tree, it may not even be real, the entire wiki could be a fake, but I personally doubt it.
Two words, ladies and gentlemen: DEMON FORM
Credit goes to RPzip for tracking down the links for the Death Knight forum, the implications of the leak though affect every class.
Edited, May 23rd 2008 8:24am by Sinstralis
Edited, May 26th 2008 11:16pm by Sinstralis
Edited, May 26th 2008 11:17pm by Sinstralis
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Possible Leaked WotLK Alpha TalentsFollow
The new Affliction talents are WAY overpowered, I call BS.
Death's Embrace: 3 ranks. Increases the the amount drained by your Drain life by 10% while your health is at or below 20% health, and increases the critical strike chance of your Shadow bolt and Haunt spells by 5% when your target is at or below 20% health.
Soul Depletion: 3 ranks. Your corruption spell ticks have a 5% chance of consuming 2% mana, 10 energy, 40 rage or a 10 runic power on effected targets.
Everlasting Affliction: 5 ranks. Your Corruption, Siphon Life and Seed of Corruption spells gain 4% (20%) more of your bonus spell damage effects, and your Drain Life and Shadow bolt spells have a 20% (100%) chance to reset the duration of your Corruption spell on the target.
Atrocity: Instant cast, no listed recast. You devastate the area, causing Corruption (Rank 8) to all targets within 15 yards. In addition, your Corruption spell will do 434 Shadow damage to the target when it finishes its duration.
Spell: Haunt (Rank 1, Level 80, 650 mana, 30 sec cooldown) - You send a corrupted soul into the target, doing 800 damage over 2 sec. Haunt will continue to travel between targets who suffer from your Corruption spell. After traveling from up to three targets, the corrupted soul will return to you, healing you for 50% of the total damage done.
There is no way these can go live as they stand. Every class out there would scream that Warlocks are OP all over again.....And they would be right.
Death's Embrace: 3 ranks. Increases the the amount drained by your Drain life by 10% while your health is at or below 20% health, and increases the critical strike chance of your Shadow bolt and Haunt spells by 5% when your target is at or below 20% health.
Soul Depletion: 3 ranks. Your corruption spell ticks have a 5% chance of consuming 2% mana, 10 energy, 40 rage or a 10 runic power on effected targets.
Everlasting Affliction: 5 ranks. Your Corruption, Siphon Life and Seed of Corruption spells gain 4% (20%) more of your bonus spell damage effects, and your Drain Life and Shadow bolt spells have a 20% (100%) chance to reset the duration of your Corruption spell on the target.
Atrocity: Instant cast, no listed recast. You devastate the area, causing Corruption (Rank 8) to all targets within 15 yards. In addition, your Corruption spell will do 434 Shadow damage to the target when it finishes its duration.
Spell: Haunt (Rank 1, Level 80, 650 mana, 30 sec cooldown) - You send a corrupted soul into the target, doing 800 damage over 2 sec. Haunt will continue to travel between targets who suffer from your Corruption spell. After traveling from up to three targets, the corrupted soul will return to you, healing you for 50% of the total damage done.
There is no way these can go live as they stand. Every class out there would scream that Warlocks are OP all over again.....And they would be right.
Well the abilities of the other classes are equally powerful.
Take a look at the wiki... if it's a fake, it's a hugely elaborate one. They have invented a LOT of talents, if its unrealistic.
To be honest the Demo talents seems a bit more OP than that... Soul Link as an 11pter?? Pets able to escape CC? Able to turn into a big stompy demon with plate armour?
Regardless of whether its real or not, I'm guessing every class will be OP until balanced against the OP-ness of other classes, at which point it will be un-OP.
~sin
Take a look at the wiki... if it's a fake, it's a hugely elaborate one. They have invented a LOT of talents, if its unrealistic.
To be honest the Demo talents seems a bit more OP than that... Soul Link as an 11pter?? Pets able to escape CC? Able to turn into a big stompy demon with plate armour?
Regardless of whether its real or not, I'm guessing every class will be OP until balanced against the OP-ness of other classes, at which point it will be un-OP.
~sin
remember. the new top tiers, especially the 51 pointers, are meant to be 'game breaking' to quote blizzard. must be like 6 months ago now that there was a blue saying that the 51 pointers will 'all' be 5+ minute cooldowns and rediculously over-powered
I wouldn't trust a wiki page for something that isn't out yet. Anyone can edit that info.
All the classes are currently unbalanced already, so who cares what talents are added and how powerful they are?
All the classes are currently unbalanced already, so who cares what talents are added and how powerful they are?
Raolan wrote:
The new Affliction talents are WAY overpowered, I call BS.
only a $%^&ing idiot would say something like that without looking at what changes will be made to the other classes. In case you hadn't notices, numbnuts, there have been very few announcements on what will be done to the talents of every class. So, I call BS on your BS. Go back to the O-boards to continue your whining.
Edited, May 21st 2008 5:00pm by ohmikeghod
ohmikeghod the Venerable wrote:
Raolan wrote:
The new Affliction talents are WAY overpowered, I call BS.
only a $%^&ing idiot would say something like that without looking at what changes will be made to the other classes. In case you hadn't notices, numbnuts, there have been very few announcements on what will be done to the talents of every class. So, I call BS on your BS. Go back to the O-boards to continue your whining.
Edited, May 21st 2008 5:00pm by ohmikeghod
I agree, its gets really annoying when people say the WotLK spells will be OP, because they don't even know what the other classes are getting.
ohmikeghod the Venerable wrote:
Raolan wrote:
The new Affliction talents are WAY overpowered, I call BS.
only a $%^&ing idiot would say something like that without looking at what changes will be made to the other classes. In case you hadn't notices, numbnuts, there have been very few announcements on what will be done to the talents of every class. So, I call BS on your BS. Go back to the O-boards to continue your whining.
Edited, May 21st 2008 5:00pm by ohmikeghod
You need to calm down. You constantly respond to posts you don't like with massive overreaction, and I'm sick of your constant "Rate down for being stupid" when you think someone is wrong on an issue that isn't sending someone off misinformed. Raolan has said nothing offensive in the least and you jump all over him.
Cool it.
/agree with mike. noobs are meant to be abused :P
Quote:
Quoted TextYou need to calm down. You constantly respond to posts you don't like with massive overreaction, and I'm sick of your constant "Rate down for being stupid" when you think someone is wrong on an issue that isn't sending someone off misinformed. Raolan has said nothing offensive in the least and you jump all over him.
Cool it.
Cool it.
I say Mike can do whatever he wants. If you don't agree with his position, rate him down, or argue against whatever he's saying. Focus on the issues, not the position; talk with your rate-down button, not with whining.
I like Mike. He's a 65-year old gamer (from what he says). An epic prostate earns some cred in my book. And if he's been a liar all these years, then he can pull off a curmudgeonly old gamer better than anyone else I've seen.
Not that I've seen anyone else try it
Edited, May 21st 2008 10:00pm by LockeColeMA
Raolan wrote:
There is no way these can go live as they stand. Every class out there would scream that Warlocks are OP all over again.....And they would be right.
Not only would they be right, but their screams of despair will replenish our hit points and refresh our dots!
So. Who else is leveling destruction?
Even on their own merits, these talents aren't overpowered that much.
Haunt is basically an Offensive Prayer of Mending with two less charges and a crappy (1200 then damage) heal at the end, and the coefficient is likely to be low for each part (40%, I'd guess at, like ProM).
I don't deny that even a nerfed version of Soul Link that low down is a bit overpowered even compared to what other classes are getting, deep Affliction or Destruction and Soul Link will be rather powerful. Of course, an Affliction or Destruction Warlock's pet is flimsy as hell...
Soul Depletion is actually pretty balanced, the large amount of Rage reduction will make us better against Warriors and the other ticks are a fairly nice bonus.
Death's Embrace will give us some much-needed burst damage (we've had, what, Shadowburn or unreliable Nightfall for burst since launch?).
Everlasting Affliction will be nice for helping us keep up our DoTs, has a small increase in DPS too. (an extra 3/5 of a Shadow Bolt for every 18 seconds when you'd normally refresh)
Atrocity is pretty mediocre actually, Corruption won't actually be ending in most situations (due to Everlasting Affliction, it'll basically only fade when you're unable to attack for 18 seconds) other than using Atrocity and a single Mass Dispel and it was worthless unless you put UA on everything first.
Decimate as a new Destruction spell is worth it even in a PvP, I'm expecting Destruction to become pretty common in PvP. With the low-down Soul Link, nifty burst from this (Trinket => Decimate => Soul Fire anyone?) and the ability to finish off a Paladin before he heals with his bubble, Destruction will be very formidable (if still less survivable) in PvP.
Haunt is basically an Offensive Prayer of Mending with two less charges and a crappy (1200 then damage) heal at the end, and the coefficient is likely to be low for each part (40%, I'd guess at, like ProM).
I don't deny that even a nerfed version of Soul Link that low down is a bit overpowered even compared to what other classes are getting, deep Affliction or Destruction and Soul Link will be rather powerful. Of course, an Affliction or Destruction Warlock's pet is flimsy as hell...
Soul Depletion is actually pretty balanced, the large amount of Rage reduction will make us better against Warriors and the other ticks are a fairly nice bonus.
Death's Embrace will give us some much-needed burst damage (we've had, what, Shadowburn or unreliable Nightfall for burst since launch?).
Everlasting Affliction will be nice for helping us keep up our DoTs, has a small increase in DPS too. (an extra 3/5 of a Shadow Bolt for every 18 seconds when you'd normally refresh)
Atrocity is pretty mediocre actually, Corruption won't actually be ending in most situations (due to Everlasting Affliction, it'll basically only fade when you're unable to attack for 18 seconds) other than using Atrocity and a single Mass Dispel and it was worthless unless you put UA on everything first.
Decimate as a new Destruction spell is worth it even in a PvP, I'm expecting Destruction to become pretty common in PvP. With the low-down Soul Link, nifty burst from this (Trinket => Decimate => Soul Fire anyone?) and the ability to finish off a Paladin before he heals with his bubble, Destruction will be very formidable (if still less survivable) in PvP.
Decimate will need to be changed for one simple reason; it doesnt specify damage spells. That would give 51pt destrolocks any instant cast they wanted in the spellbook, including Summoning a pet instantly (something Demolocks cant even do) and of course; instant, unresistable Fear.
This means Rogues Cloak of Shadows won't work. Never mind Paladin bubbles.
I would expect Decimate to be retuned to only affect Incinerate and Shadow Bolt, being able to case instant Soul Fires on a 3min cooldown that crack through every shield in the game is absolutely insane. Looking at the other trees, I cant find a single 51pter as ripe for abuse as that one, if you specced into Pyroclasm you'd even have a chance to stun people with it, and since it's on a seperate cooldown to Backlash AND Torture you could easily frontload three major damage sources in as many GCDs...
However, Demon Form is the one that has my attention. Plate-level armour, and if the action bar on the wiki screenshot is to believed, the abilities Howl of Terror, Intercept, Shadowbolt and Hellfire, as well as something else we cant recognise. Wouldnt help a great deal against Rogues unless the melee attack power is exceptional.
Atrocity is obviously a PvP talent, and is designed to synergize with Soul Depletion. Hitting everyone with Atrocity starts draining all of their resources, demanding either an early Mass Dispel or a lot of hard work for the dispelling team. Sapping Rogue energy in particular is dangerous as it can prevent stunlocking and interrupt their flow of abilities. Frankly I'm glad Affliction has been given something with such obvious PvP utility, it has zero PvE benefit.
This means Rogues Cloak of Shadows won't work. Never mind Paladin bubbles.
I would expect Decimate to be retuned to only affect Incinerate and Shadow Bolt, being able to case instant Soul Fires on a 3min cooldown that crack through every shield in the game is absolutely insane. Looking at the other trees, I cant find a single 51pter as ripe for abuse as that one, if you specced into Pyroclasm you'd even have a chance to stun people with it, and since it's on a seperate cooldown to Backlash AND Torture you could easily frontload three major damage sources in as many GCDs...
However, Demon Form is the one that has my attention. Plate-level armour, and if the action bar on the wiki screenshot is to believed, the abilities Howl of Terror, Intercept, Shadowbolt and Hellfire, as well as something else we cant recognise. Wouldnt help a great deal against Rogues unless the melee attack power is exceptional.
Atrocity is obviously a PvP talent, and is designed to synergize with Soul Depletion. Hitting everyone with Atrocity starts draining all of their resources, demanding either an early Mass Dispel or a lot of hard work for the dispelling team. Sapping Rogue energy in particular is dangerous as it can prevent stunlocking and interrupt their flow of abilities. Frankly I'm glad Affliction has been given something with such obvious PvP utility, it has zero PvE benefit.
Quote:
Decimate will need to be changed for one simple reason; it doesnt specify damage spells. That would give 51pt destrolocks any instant cast they wanted in the spellbook, including Summoning a pet instantly (something Demolocks cant even do) and of course; instant, unresistable Fear.
This means Rogues Cloak of Shadows won't work. Never mind Paladin bubbles.
I would expect Decimate to be retuned to only affect Incinerate and Shadow Bolt, being able to case instant Soul Fires on a 3min cooldown that crack through every shield in the game is absolutely insane.
This means Rogues Cloak of Shadows won't work. Never mind Paladin bubbles.
I would expect Decimate to be retuned to only affect Incinerate and Shadow Bolt, being able to case instant Soul Fires on a 3min cooldown that crack through every shield in the game is absolutely insane.
One PoM Pyroblast (essentially) through CloS won't change the fact that Rogues kick our asses. Going through damage shields isn't that useful, unless it's a Killing Blow you're going to have to break down the damage eventually anyway. Going through Paladin bubble isn't THAT overpowering, it gives us something to do other than stand around and be hit for 12 seconds if we don't have a Priest with us.
Instant Fear makes no difference unless we have an interrupter on us at the time or the enemy would move out of range by the time the cast finishes. A pseudo-nerf to Restoration PvP Druids at last xD
I DO agree that being able to summon a pet instantly should be in the realm of Demonologists, but as a 51-point talent, on a fairly long cooldown, for a spec with absolutely NO way of making the pet tougher it's not that bad.
Browsing through the lists, it seems like most of the 51-point talents are PvP-oriented (or 5-man oriented; they most likely aren't going to be raiding talents unless something major changes in WotLK dungeons). That's probably a fairly smart design choice for Blizz, since it gives you more power while leveling but means that specialized raiding builds are going to be pretty wimpy in PvP, as most of them are going to look something like the current 0/21/40 build.
Looking more specifically at Warlocks, Decimate is quite good but it's not going to make Destruction viable for serious PvP any more than PoM Pyro is good for Mages. It'll be a neat trick, and a nice kick in the *** for world PvP, but you'll still lose to dedicated builds/geared opponents all the time. It's too focused on providing the burst at the expense of sustained damage/survivability, so god help you if you don't get a Crit and get obliterated after you've blown your wad.
I know the assumption is that any spell or effect that bypasses normal play/game restrictions (like Bubble or Mass Dispel, or even something as simple as Shadowstep) is assumed to be massively overpowered but they're usually not as awe-inspiring as they first appear. Everyone thinks of that time when the damn Paladin bubbled at 2% HP and starts slobbering for revenge, but you forget the main reason you were able to get him there was because you were playing as SL/SL and could wear him down without getting your *** handed to you by someone else. Giving good PvP talents to PvE trees isn't going to make them PvP powerhouses, but it will level the playing field somewhat.
And actually, my inclination for the most potentially overpowered/intrigueing talent is the Empowered Imp one. Yes, they're weak as hell... but with the new talents they'll have something like a ~30-35% crit rate raid-buffed, and every time they do crit you'll autocrit for 8 seconds. Which is insane.
It's too bad it's so deep in the tree, and it'd require some specific boss fights/group setups to work, but it could be kind of crazy. I know on our first Brutallus kill we had an Affliction warlock at #4 because with a Shadow Priest in his group and no pet raid damage his imp just Firebolt'd the entire encounter, which adds up to a lot of damage.
Looking more specifically at Warlocks, Decimate is quite good but it's not going to make Destruction viable for serious PvP any more than PoM Pyro is good for Mages. It'll be a neat trick, and a nice kick in the *** for world PvP, but you'll still lose to dedicated builds/geared opponents all the time. It's too focused on providing the burst at the expense of sustained damage/survivability, so god help you if you don't get a Crit and get obliterated after you've blown your wad.
I know the assumption is that any spell or effect that bypasses normal play/game restrictions (like Bubble or Mass Dispel, or even something as simple as Shadowstep) is assumed to be massively overpowered but they're usually not as awe-inspiring as they first appear. Everyone thinks of that time when the damn Paladin bubbled at 2% HP and starts slobbering for revenge, but you forget the main reason you were able to get him there was because you were playing as SL/SL and could wear him down without getting your *** handed to you by someone else. Giving good PvP talents to PvE trees isn't going to make them PvP powerhouses, but it will level the playing field somewhat.
And actually, my inclination for the most potentially overpowered/intrigueing talent is the Empowered Imp one. Yes, they're weak as hell... but with the new talents they'll have something like a ~30-35% crit rate raid-buffed, and every time they do crit you'll autocrit for 8 seconds. Which is insane.
It's too bad it's so deep in the tree, and it'd require some specific boss fights/group setups to work, but it could be kind of crazy. I know on our first Brutallus kill we had an Affliction warlock at #4 because with a Shadow Priest in his group and no pet raid damage his imp just Firebolt'd the entire encounter, which adds up to a lot of damage.
I'm having trouble making a sensical Partial Demo build because at tier 5 there are a lack of slots to allocate points into, leaving few options. The option for Health funnel helps, though.
Kinda sux.
As for AE Corruption it's about time with that. 30% increase to Drain Life will serve in a tight spot, but will be highly situational and still wont put Drain anywhere near top DPS. The effect will negate itself due to the fact that Draining gives back life - lol.
If Decimate is on a timer of 5 or 10 minutes, I wouldn't consider it OP - especially with the after effect. Molten core looks like a basetalent for a very unfamiliar raid build (possibly PVP when coupled with Searing Pain.) Throwing fire around definatly looks like a viable option here, with the right build, and I wouldn't doubt an increase in Destro Raiding Locks from the updated Fire Talents (better for Low-end +Spell) coupled with the new Cataclysm (now helping low-end +Hit).
Demon form will probobly be a considerable leveling option, as rotating from Demonform to Regular w/ Pet will allow for a more accelerated grind. The only thing that would make this not true is if it has a cooldown longer than 5 minutes. It should also serve as a good OShi button, which besides Fel Dom, Demonology is lacking currently. Love struck actually looks like it has the potential to be OP, especially when coupled with SL, Master Demonologist, Fel Synergy, and Demonic Empowerment. Then again, that's a lot of talents to be blown on melee DPS negation. I'm still thinking we'll be seeing some Succies back out on the field (which considering they're low HP shouldn't really be condemned as too OP.)
Weird Talents?
Everlasting Affliction looks pointless to me. The new high-end tree looks to be very useful in certain situations, none of them in coherence with this talent. While this saves a GCD (I suppose) on a DoTRot/SBSpam, it seems like wasted effort, and wasted 5 points especially this high in the tree, and the increase in SL and Seed are all but pointless: Seed has a terribly low ratio, and who uses SL in Raiding or is that far in Affliction using it to PVP?
Demonic Pact? An unreliable/sporatic minor group HP buff and an increase to SPI in the Demon Tree? BWha?!
Kindling Soul? Locks don't usually want Spirit as far as I'm concerned. I suppose theres a chance some game mechanics are going be changed (I remember something about how Spi would again become an integral part of the game for non-healers), it just seems odd that a Destro talent so deep in would rely entirely on Spi.
Kinda sux.
As for AE Corruption it's about time with that. 30% increase to Drain Life will serve in a tight spot, but will be highly situational and still wont put Drain anywhere near top DPS. The effect will negate itself due to the fact that Draining gives back life - lol.
If Decimate is on a timer of 5 or 10 minutes, I wouldn't consider it OP - especially with the after effect. Molten core looks like a basetalent for a very unfamiliar raid build (possibly PVP when coupled with Searing Pain.) Throwing fire around definatly looks like a viable option here, with the right build, and I wouldn't doubt an increase in Destro Raiding Locks from the updated Fire Talents (better for Low-end +Spell) coupled with the new Cataclysm (now helping low-end +Hit).
Demon form will probobly be a considerable leveling option, as rotating from Demonform to Regular w/ Pet will allow for a more accelerated grind. The only thing that would make this not true is if it has a cooldown longer than 5 minutes. It should also serve as a good OShi button, which besides Fel Dom, Demonology is lacking currently. Love struck actually looks like it has the potential to be OP, especially when coupled with SL, Master Demonologist, Fel Synergy, and Demonic Empowerment. Then again, that's a lot of talents to be blown on melee DPS negation. I'm still thinking we'll be seeing some Succies back out on the field (which considering they're low HP shouldn't really be condemned as too OP.)
Weird Talents?
Everlasting Affliction looks pointless to me. The new high-end tree looks to be very useful in certain situations, none of them in coherence with this talent. While this saves a GCD (I suppose) on a DoTRot/SBSpam, it seems like wasted effort, and wasted 5 points especially this high in the tree, and the increase in SL and Seed are all but pointless: Seed has a terribly low ratio, and who uses SL in Raiding or is that far in Affliction using it to PVP?
Demonic Pact? An unreliable/sporatic minor group HP buff and an increase to SPI in the Demon Tree? BWha?!
Kindling Soul? Locks don't usually want Spirit as far as I'm concerned. I suppose theres a chance some game mechanics are going be changed (I remember something about how Spi would again become an integral part of the game for non-healers), it just seems odd that a Destro talent so deep in would rely entirely on Spi.
i disagree RPzip. though some are blatently pvp orientated, others like demonform, depending on the abilities available in said form, could be very powerful in pve, especially when you look at the other available talents in the tree
Jenovaomega wrote:
i disagree RPzip. though some are blatently pvp orientated, others like demonform, depending on the abilities available in said form, could be very powerful in pve, especially when you look at the other available talents in the tree
Well, I did say "most". Besides, you're just emphasizing the point - Demonology isn't traditionally a PvE tree, so giving it a PvE talent (or a talent that's still good for PvE, anyway) would make sense with that design philosophy.
It's not universally true, but it is... well, widely true. The Desto and Affliction end-talents seem more PvP-oriented, the Fury (superjump!) and to a lesser extent Protection Warrior talents seem PvP-oriented, plus the Fire Mage (AoE Bomb), Shadow Priest (90% damage reduction and self-healing) and Balance/Feral (AoE nuke and TBW effect).
Conversely, the Demo Warlock and Resto Druid talents seem more PvE-focused. It's not universal, like I've mentioned (most notable is probably the Frost Mage talent, which is a stun on a frozen target) but it's consistant enough to not be a total coincidence.
Of course, if AoE attacks or debuffs are really useful in WotLK 10-mans/raids (stuff like Shadowfury, for example) then this won't be true... but at first glance, it looks like they're designed to give a bit more versatility to the trees.
demonology has always been a support tree, regardless of how far talented into it, unless we've gone felguard spec, we always consider ourselves afliction or destruction
As always, I reserve judgement until I get blue posts from Blizzard and a new talent section on the official site before I buy into any of these.
But assuming for a moment that all of this information is real... does anyone else think that talenting is getting a little out of hand? I mean, Blizzard has always said that they would eventually like to have character levels up to 100. What are the 61 and 71 point talents going to look like?
But assuming for a moment that all of this information is real... does anyone else think that talenting is getting a little out of hand? I mean, Blizzard has always said that they would eventually like to have character levels up to 100. What are the 61 and 71 point talents going to look like?
Gaudion wrote:
But assuming for a moment that all of this information is real... does anyone else think that talenting is getting a little out of hand? I mean, Blizzard has always said that they would eventually like to have character levels up to 100. What are the 61 and 71 point talents going to look like?
I don't know, but hopefully with 450+ engineering I could fix an I win!
Edited, May 22nd 2008 5:35pm by Bongaru
Even if all of these leaked abilities are true, I have faith that the test realms will weed out/tone down a number of them to achieve some form of class neutrality.
That being said, im sure there will be some exploitable abilities that will slip through, but hey...thats WoW.
That being said, im sure there will be some exploitable abilities that will slip through, but hey...thats WoW.
indeed *cough* cloak of LOLLLLLL *cough*
hehe
hehe
Bumped as the talent calcs are back up
17 posts
Or mike could offer something useful like pointing out that the talent least likely to make it to live is Eradication, that is if you want to talk about op.
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