Is there any reason why my raid leader (resto shaman) loves to heal the TANKS? I'm not a healer but I constantly listen to him give healing assignments over vent and /facepalm when I hear him say he'll be one of the MT healers.
With a balanced healing roster in 25 mans (T6) is there any reason a resto shaman should ever be primary tank healers? Our raid healing on ranged really suffers. The only self healing I can personally do is bandage, since I chain chug mana pots, and I can't healthstone since it's shared with mana gems.
I'm not asking for resto heals, but I have a feeling he's organizing the healing assignments wrong.
It should show big time tonight in BT as the first fight is extremely raid healing intensive.
Edited, May 20th 2008 6:18pm by mikelolol
- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- Class Discussion
- Resto healing MT always?
Resto healing MT always?Follow
i don't see why he wouldn't be raid healing, since the other healing classes would be better suited to healing the MT. my guess is he knows he sucks at raid healing, doesn't like it, or can't read his healbot.
Unless you have another resto shaman or two who are assigned to raid healing, or also a CoH happy spamming priest there is no reason for a shaman to be assigned to heal the main tank.
When I raid on my shaman, sometimes it happens that I do get assigned to main tank heal but that is because we have enough people who excel at raid healing with us so we mix people around so we don't get rusty main tank healing.
However the previous poster makes a good point. Some people just aren't very good at raid healing. We have a priest who is an amazing raid healer, and other priests who just aren't quite as good at it as he is. Although, raid healing as a shaman isn't hard. You see someone who needs a heal, you chain heal them and watch the pretty golden lights jump around the screen :D
Although, even if the shaman is main tank healing, that doesn't mean raid healing should suffer. Someone needs to be assigned to heal the ranged people, a shaman may be best suited but any class can do it in a pinch. As for a valid reason to have a resto shaman on the main tank, when we crit heal someone it increases their armor by 25% for 15 seconds. With 2 resto shamans that have enough spell crit, you can keep this up on the tank for a good part of the fight, which may help out on bosses that hit like a truck. I haven't encountered a fight yet where we needed to try that strat, but hey, just throwing it out there.
Sorry for the ramble :D
In response to your edit: if the resto shaman isn't assigning themselves to heal the melee on Naj'entus, they should be punched in the face.
Edited, May 20th 2008 7:32pm by Khalane
When I raid on my shaman, sometimes it happens that I do get assigned to main tank heal but that is because we have enough people who excel at raid healing with us so we mix people around so we don't get rusty main tank healing.
However the previous poster makes a good point. Some people just aren't very good at raid healing. We have a priest who is an amazing raid healer, and other priests who just aren't quite as good at it as he is. Although, raid healing as a shaman isn't hard. You see someone who needs a heal, you chain heal them and watch the pretty golden lights jump around the screen :D
Although, even if the shaman is main tank healing, that doesn't mean raid healing should suffer. Someone needs to be assigned to heal the ranged people, a shaman may be best suited but any class can do it in a pinch. As for a valid reason to have a resto shaman on the main tank, when we crit heal someone it increases their armor by 25% for 15 seconds. With 2 resto shamans that have enough spell crit, you can keep this up on the tank for a good part of the fight, which may help out on bosses that hit like a truck. I haven't encountered a fight yet where we needed to try that strat, but hey, just throwing it out there.
Sorry for the ramble :D
In response to your edit: if the resto shaman isn't assigning themselves to heal the melee on Naj'entus, they should be punched in the face.
Edited, May 20th 2008 7:32pm by Khalane
mikelolol wrote:
With a balanced healing roster in 25 mans (T6) is there any reason a resto shaman should ever be primary tank healers?
None whatsoever. A Paladin is the optimal MT healer.
He wants to MT heal because he's lazy. It's much, much easier to heal one person, no matter how heavy the incoming damage, than to watch 20-ish other health bars and distribute heals when and where needed.
Tell him to get his head out of his *** and L2Resto Shaman.
That's what I figured =(
I hate to be the guy who tells others how to play their class, but damn. Maybe I'll have a chat with him. I'm super worried because we're going to be working on Naj'entus, frostbolts hitting the entire raid for 8500 damage every minute, and lots of splash damage. Raid healing will need to be massive in this fight, and if our resto shamans aren't playing right.....sigh. I'm predicting lots of wipes.
edit- You guys are the healers, not me =) As a mage (or other ranged class, but I play a mage), where would incoming heals generally be coming from? From what I understand chain heal is a very mana efficient heal, even non jumping single target, and it could possibly jump from me to another ranged class, though generally not. Who should I generally be seeing raid heals from? I seriously don't get enough heals. I know bandage and all that, don't stand in the splash, I never do. I always bandage when I have to, but I mean the raid healing just isn't there when it needs to be. Who should my primary healer be, or does it matter? I know shamans do crazy melee healing, but do you guys raid heal ranged?
Using health pots + health stones is almost never a realistic option as a mage, since we're so mana inefficient and they share cooldowns with our respective mana pots/gems.
Edited, May 20th 2008 8:34pm by mikelolol
Edited, May 20th 2008 8:35pm by mikelolol
I hate to be the guy who tells others how to play their class, but damn. Maybe I'll have a chat with him. I'm super worried because we're going to be working on Naj'entus, frostbolts hitting the entire raid for 8500 damage every minute, and lots of splash damage. Raid healing will need to be massive in this fight, and if our resto shamans aren't playing right.....sigh. I'm predicting lots of wipes.
edit- You guys are the healers, not me =) As a mage (or other ranged class, but I play a mage), where would incoming heals generally be coming from? From what I understand chain heal is a very mana efficient heal, even non jumping single target, and it could possibly jump from me to another ranged class, though generally not. Who should I generally be seeing raid heals from? I seriously don't get enough heals. I know bandage and all that, don't stand in the splash, I never do. I always bandage when I have to, but I mean the raid healing just isn't there when it needs to be. Who should my primary healer be, or does it matter? I know shamans do crazy melee healing, but do you guys raid heal ranged?
Using health pots + health stones is almost never a realistic option as a mage, since we're so mana inefficient and they share cooldowns with our respective mana pots/gems.
Edited, May 20th 2008 8:34pm by mikelolol
Edited, May 20th 2008 8:35pm by mikelolol
Using the Naj'entus fight as an example here is how we set up assignments.
First we designate 3 healers who are dedicated solely to the main tank. Then, each of the remaining 5 healers is assigned a group from 1-5 who they are responsible for healing. The ranged groups spread out around the room with each healer and their ranged people within healing range. There is overlap between healing range as well so people who get their groups topped off fastest help out their neighbours. This is especially important if someone gets spined right after the raid all take 8.5k damage.
Usually we have a paladin or two on the main tank along with a resto druid for hots as paladins are the weakest raid healers. At this point in progression your priests should be CoH for the most part, so if your raid set up is like ours you will have 2 shaman and 2 priests all of whom have great raid heals. Sure it is a lot of damage to heal, but if everyone does their assignment and the raid helps out as much as possible by taking healthstones and health pots on cooldown, it works out. Living is more important than every inch of dps so if that means using health pots instead of mana pots do it.
First we designate 3 healers who are dedicated solely to the main tank. Then, each of the remaining 5 healers is assigned a group from 1-5 who they are responsible for healing. The ranged groups spread out around the room with each healer and their ranged people within healing range. There is overlap between healing range as well so people who get their groups topped off fastest help out their neighbours. This is especially important if someone gets spined right after the raid all take 8.5k damage.
Usually we have a paladin or two on the main tank along with a resto druid for hots as paladins are the weakest raid healers. At this point in progression your priests should be CoH for the most part, so if your raid set up is like ours you will have 2 shaman and 2 priests all of whom have great raid heals. Sure it is a lot of damage to heal, but if everyone does their assignment and the raid helps out as much as possible by taking healthstones and health pots on cooldown, it works out. Living is more important than every inch of dps so if that means using health pots instead of mana pots do it.
Or there are two other explanations:
1. He doesn't trust the other healers to keep tanks alive.
2. His gear is much better than the other "main" tank healers.
If you have enough raid healers, generally a GM will put a healer they TRUST on the main tank. It doesn't matter what class it is. A good healer is a good healer and will out perform (or can outperform) a healer that isn't as good. Sometimes you just need people to feel that bit of safety from knowing the tank will live. (shrug)
No, if chain heal DOESN'T jump, it's very mana inefficient (AND TIME). This is why fights like Void Reaver, it's frustrating to heal ranged dps as a shaman. I'd much rather be thrown in the middle and heal melee. If I'm raid healing something I know people are spread out, I use lesser healing wave and healing wave (and use a different totem). If it's a fight where chain heal will likely jump... well, chain heal all the way.
Nothing is more annoying to see the target you chose to chain heal is WAY OFF by themselves and you just wasted a good chunk of mana. Healing is a lot like dps but ... inverted.
Do you Flamestrike a boss that has no adds? Of course not, it's poor mana use. Same goes for Chain Heal, except you have to "try" to keep track of 25 targets and their locations. Also, using Flamestrike is REALLY going to hurt your dps... using chain heal on a single target will hurt a healers "hps" or heals per second. It's a longer cast time and only heals a bit more than lesser healing wave if non-crit usually. But it takes almost twice the time to cast and a good bit more mana.
Did he say what fight? Sometimes a shaman can MT heal with chain heal and still take care of the melee. A good portion of my healing percentage is on the main tanks, but then again... they take the most damage. Silly to sit around on full mana and just hope the other healers heal the tanks if everyone else is full.
Edited, May 25th 2008 7:20pm by Jiade
1. He doesn't trust the other healers to keep tanks alive.
2. His gear is much better than the other "main" tank healers.
If you have enough raid healers, generally a GM will put a healer they TRUST on the main tank. It doesn't matter what class it is. A good healer is a good healer and will out perform (or can outperform) a healer that isn't as good. Sometimes you just need people to feel that bit of safety from knowing the tank will live. (shrug)
Quote:
You guys are the healers, not me =) As a mage (or other ranged class, but I play a mage), where would incoming heals generally be coming from? From what I understand chain heal is a very mana efficient heal, even non jumping single target, and it could possibly jump from me to another ranged class, though generally not. Who should I generally be seeing raid heals from? I seriously don't get enough heals. I know bandage and all that, don't stand in the splash, I never do. I always bandage when I have to, but I mean the raid healing just isn't there when it needs to be. Who should my primary healer be, or does it matter? I know shamans do crazy melee healing, but do you guys raid heal ranged?
No, if chain heal DOESN'T jump, it's very mana inefficient (AND TIME). This is why fights like Void Reaver, it's frustrating to heal ranged dps as a shaman. I'd much rather be thrown in the middle and heal melee. If I'm raid healing something I know people are spread out, I use lesser healing wave and healing wave (and use a different totem). If it's a fight where chain heal will likely jump... well, chain heal all the way.
Nothing is more annoying to see the target you chose to chain heal is WAY OFF by themselves and you just wasted a good chunk of mana. Healing is a lot like dps but ... inverted.
Do you Flamestrike a boss that has no adds? Of course not, it's poor mana use. Same goes for Chain Heal, except you have to "try" to keep track of 25 targets and their locations. Also, using Flamestrike is REALLY going to hurt your dps... using chain heal on a single target will hurt a healers "hps" or heals per second. It's a longer cast time and only heals a bit more than lesser healing wave if non-crit usually. But it takes almost twice the time to cast and a good bit more mana.
Quote:
He wants to MT heal because he's lazy. It's much, much easier to heal one person, no matter how heavy the incoming damage, than to watch 20-ish other health bars and distribute heals when and where needed.
Did he say what fight? Sometimes a shaman can MT heal with chain heal and still take care of the melee. A good portion of my healing percentage is on the main tanks, but then again... they take the most damage. Silly to sit around on full mana and just hope the other healers heal the tanks if everyone else is full.
Edited, May 25th 2008 7:20pm by Jiade
I was in a heroic sethek other day and our shaman healer would not use chain heal, I asked why he said that us BC shaman no jack about shaman he was a big time healer pre bc but took a break, I told him that Chain Heal is sweet and he should use it for the boss (lots of aoe dmg) he continued to say it was talantless and he took pride in his heals.
When i start Chain healing myself and him he told me i was an idiot for just targeting him for chain heal its so inefficiently and that he has our heals (we where both the only casters.
Needless to say we wiped about 10 times, he would not listen so i decided to stand next to tank and ret pally we had and in between LBs and CL i would heal up the tank and melee as well as myself basically doing his job of keeping up the group.
we finally beat the boss when I took over his job as an ele shaman and took advantage of our "talentless spell"
Chain Heal is so powerful we should use it, yes being MT healer makes you seem important, but if the raid is dieing you aren't getting anywhere thats just way it is.
just cause we can MT heal doesn't mean we should, i do not think we are bad at it, but i know we are so damn good at healing raid there is no reason we should not take advantage of our strongest heal.
When i start Chain healing myself and him he told me i was an idiot for just targeting him for chain heal its so inefficiently and that he has our heals (we where both the only casters.
Needless to say we wiped about 10 times, he would not listen so i decided to stand next to tank and ret pally we had and in between LBs and CL i would heal up the tank and melee as well as myself basically doing his job of keeping up the group.
we finally beat the boss when I took over his job as an ele shaman and took advantage of our "talentless spell"
Chain Heal is so powerful we should use it, yes being MT healer makes you seem important, but if the raid is dieing you aren't getting anywhere thats just way it is.
just cause we can MT heal doesn't mean we should, i do not think we are bad at it, but i know we are so damn good at healing raid there is no reason we should not take advantage of our strongest heal.
jmfmb wrote:
just cause we can MT heal doesn't mean we should, i do not think we are bad at it, but i know we are so damn good at healing raid there is no reason we should not take advantage of our strongest heal.
Not being bad at something isn't the same as being good at it. We already went over this in nauseating detail in another thread, but just because a class can do X, Y, or Z, it doesn't automatically mean that they should.
I can main-tank heal. If I couldn't, I wouldn't be running all of those heroics or even regular instances where I am the one and only healer. However, I recognize that Holy Paladins are clearly superior single-target healers to myself, and thus I will gladly defer the job of tank-healing to them in a ten or 25-man raid. I will still toss Earth Shield on the main tank and support them when necessary, but in the end it is their primary focus while my focus is always on the raid first and the tank second.
That's what raids are all about: optimization. You put the right people in the right places so that they will do the most good and the raid as a whole will benefit. A main-tank healer is not the optimal position for a Resto Shaman. A raid healer is. It's pretty much that simple.
maybe that cam eout wrong point I was trying to get across is we are very strong raid healers and should try to take advantage of that is all.
shaman can MT heal sure, and I think are plenty capable of it, but chain heal is a great asset to a raid for many fights.
shaman can MT heal sure, and I think are plenty capable of it, but chain heal is a great asset to a raid for many fights.
resto shams shine as raid healers - a holy pal would be better MT healer usually
I don't know if this has been said before, since I can't be bothered with reading every post in this thread, but here goes.
If he's raid leading, it might not be optimal doing "difficult" stuff, since he might lose overview and won't be able to tell people what to do over vent/ts. I usually lead the raids in my guild, and as a mage, it doesn't matter too much if I slack off a bit to make sure everyone's doing their part. When I'm not there though, one of our tanks usually tries to lead the raid. He doesn't do as well as I do simply because he can't stop tanking stuff without causing dangerous situations, he doesn't have the time to check up on other people that might be ******** up.
I don't think chain healing can be hard enough to interfere with his raid leading abilities, especially with grid and mouseover macros, but he might disagree.
If this is indeed the issue, spam him with L2P for a while. If all else fails, get a ranged dps to lead the bossfights. Having an aoe healer single target heal is insane.
If he's raid leading, it might not be optimal doing "difficult" stuff, since he might lose overview and won't be able to tell people what to do over vent/ts. I usually lead the raids in my guild, and as a mage, it doesn't matter too much if I slack off a bit to make sure everyone's doing their part. When I'm not there though, one of our tanks usually tries to lead the raid. He doesn't do as well as I do simply because he can't stop tanking stuff without causing dangerous situations, he doesn't have the time to check up on other people that might be ******** up.
I don't think chain healing can be hard enough to interfere with his raid leading abilities, especially with grid and mouseover macros, but he might disagree.
If this is indeed the issue, spam him with L2P for a while. If all else fails, get a ranged dps to lead the bossfights. Having an aoe healer single target heal is insane.
jmfmb wrote:
When i start Chain healing myself and him he told me i was an idiot for just targeting him for chain heal its so inefficiently and that he has our heals (we where both the only casters.
Unfortunately it's hard to chain heal when your group doesn't listen and aren't a resonable distance from each other for the chain to work.
that was a personal situation that annoyed me you can more or less disregard most of it =P
lol =P
Well the group I ran Kara with last night wanted to test out my healing (my first time being a healer and going into Kara... always played my rogue). Anyway, they had me main heal the tank (only up to Curator and other bosses)... this is where we started since they ran earlier in the week). Needless to say, even with my crappy gear, I was out healing the other two healers (druid and pally) hps wise, and was second to the druid.
Felt pretty good about my healing abilities with them doing that. A good test to see if I knew how to play my class. Glad they did.
During bosses I just kept spamming chain heals to the group. Didn't do too bad either.
But the shammy main healing the tank, is an eh job. Sure, it's much easier to focus on one person, but our heals do great group wise.
Well the group I ran Kara with last night wanted to test out my healing (my first time being a healer and going into Kara... always played my rogue). Anyway, they had me main heal the tank (only up to Curator and other bosses)... this is where we started since they ran earlier in the week). Needless to say, even with my crappy gear, I was out healing the other two healers (druid and pally) hps wise, and was second to the druid.
Felt pretty good about my healing abilities with them doing that. A good test to see if I knew how to play my class. Glad they did.
During bosses I just kept spamming chain heals to the group. Didn't do too bad either.
But the shammy main healing the tank, is an eh job. Sure, it's much easier to focus on one person, but our heals do great group wise.
xNocturnalSunx wrote:
lol =P
Well the group I ran Kara with last night wanted to test out my healing (my first time being a healer and going into Kara... always played my rogue). Anyway, they had me main heal the tank (only up to Curator and other bosses)... this is where we started since they ran earlier in the week). Needless to say, even with my crappy gear, I was out healing the other two healers (druid and pally) hps wise, and was second to the druid.
Well the group I ran Kara with last night wanted to test out my healing (my first time being a healer and going into Kara... always played my rogue). Anyway, they had me main heal the tank (only up to Curator and other bosses)... this is where we started since they ran earlier in the week). Needless to say, even with my crappy gear, I was out healing the other two healers (druid and pally) hps wise, and was second to the druid.
Don't want to rain on your parade (too badly =P), but reguardless of class you can pretty much always expect the heal meter to read MT healer > OT healer > raid healer in Kara. Other than healing up self-inflicted damage (Spriest's constant SW:D), tank touch-ups, the rare AoE-ing trash, or the
Again... I don't want anyone to get back to the assumption that I'm saying Shaman can't MT heal. I'm just saying it can be done better.
Gaudion wrote:
xNocturnalSunx wrote:
lol =P
Well the group I ran Kara with last night wanted to test out my healing (my first time being a healer and going into Kara... always played my rogue). Anyway, they had me main heal the tank (only up to Curator and other bosses)... this is where we started since they ran earlier in the week). Needless to say, even with my crappy gear, I was out healing the other two healers (druid and pally) hps wise, and was second to the druid.
Well the group I ran Kara with last night wanted to test out my healing (my first time being a healer and going into Kara... always played my rogue). Anyway, they had me main heal the tank (only up to Curator and other bosses)... this is where we started since they ran earlier in the week). Needless to say, even with my crappy gear, I was out healing the other two healers (druid and pally) hps wise, and was second to the druid.
Don't want to rain on your parade (too badly =P), but reguardless of class you can pretty much always expect the heal meter to read MT healer > OT healer > raid healer in Kara. Other than healing up self-inflicted damage (Spriest's constant SW:D), tank touch-ups, the rare AoE-ing trash, or the
Again... I don't want anyone to get back to the assumption that I'm saying Shaman can't MT heal. I'm just saying it can be done better.
No raining whatsoever. I'm moreso talking about that I was surprised that I was able to keep up with the healing (with the tank taking so much damage). I've never done it so I was proud of myself =P.
But you're right, during the points I had raid healed, I was barely using mana.
This is kind of an aside from the main topic. I've not done a lot of healing in raids as am enhancement specced, so I don't have a lot of input on the main topic. But as I was reading this thread, I thought about the OP's situation as a Mage and not being able to use healing pots as he was using mana pots. My shaman is an alchemist and can use Mad Alchemist pots which restore both health and mana and, hopefuly, will one day discover how to make supre rejuvination pots. For toons that end up using mana pots and suffer from lack of healing, buying a bunch of super rejuvination pots or becoming an alchemist to use Mad Alchemist pots might be beneficial. Just a thought.
The problem I see with using Mad Alch Pots (as I was talking with a guildie about this), is the fact that the "side-effect" always takes over one of my elixirs with some other one that I don't need. I mean, I know I could always just take another elixir, but when you're in a middle of a fight after a rebuff of everything and you have to drink one, it's a waste of elixirs, imo.
And I really can't have that happening and having it replace my elixir of Healing Power and my Draenic Wisdom.
Edit: But the super rejuv would be nice to discover.
Edited, Jun 2nd 2008 8:19am by xNocturnalSunx
And I really can't have that happening and having it replace my elixir of Healing Power and my Draenic Wisdom.
Edit: But the super rejuv would be nice to discover.
Edited, Jun 2nd 2008 8:19am by xNocturnalSunx
14 posts
ive never healed in a raid, ive healed in a few bgs and a couple instances, so i dont know the schematics of it, i healed as a elemenatl shammy, BUT.. usually the main tank has the most armor? and a resto shammy has that spec where a critical heal provides an extra 24% of the targets total armor for the next X amount of seconds? could that have anything to do with it
Catshyttin wrote:
ive never healed in a raid, ive healed in a few bgs and a couple instances, so i dont know the schematics of it, i healed as a elemenatl shammy, BUT.. usually the main tank has the most armor? and a resto shammy has that spec where a critical heal provides an extra 24% of the targets total armor for the next X amount of seconds? could that have anything to do with it
Could be... or it could be the fact that they want to be on the top of the healing meters.
As a MT healer, you have to heal more. Group heals aren't as often, which in turn, means being on the lower portion of the healing meters. I've noticed this with my Kara runs. When I'm MT and OT healing, I'm at the top of the meters, but if I'm group healing, I'm usually third (at the bottom).
Edit: When I say, with group heals you're not healing as often, I mean that if you have a good group that knows what they're doing and they're not pulling aggro off the tanks, you shouldn't have to be healing them much.
It's sort of like those dps classes that don't care about cutting back on their threat and want to always be on top of the damage meters. Sometimes, as a dps, you need to know when to cut back on your damage. I've had to do that a few times (feint, vanish, etc).
Edited, Jun 3rd 2008 9:36am by xNocturnalSunx
Quote:
ive never healed in a raid, ive healed in a few bgs and a couple instances, so i dont know the schematics of it, i healed as a elemenatl shammy, BUT.. usually the main tank has the most armor? and a resto shammy has that spec where a critical heal provides an extra 24% of the targets total armor for the next X amount of seconds? could that have anything to do with it
Both Priests and Shamans have this ability.
Quote:
As a MT healer, you have to heal more. Group heals aren't as often, which in turn, means being on the lower portion of the healing meters. I've noticed this with my Kara runs. When I'm MT and OT healing, I'm at the top of the meters, but if I'm group healing, I'm usually third (at the bottom).
That's only the case in some fights. Also, if chain heal can keep a MT or OT alive, then you'll still be raid healing and you'll blow by the other healers. In 25 man raids, raid healers will destroy tank healers in total effective amount healed (or generally should)
Jiade wrote:
That's only the case in some fights. Also, if chain heal can keep a MT or OT alive, then you'll still be raid healing and you'll blow by the other healers. In 25 man raids, raid healers will destroy tank healers in total effective amount healed (or generally should)
Indeed. Fights like Naj'entus are just criminal for meter padding, especially if there is a full melee group and you're responsible for keeping them alive.
For the most part I hold my own, but on fights where there isn't a tonne of raid damage our tree druid is a beast. Most of the time there is no catching her if she's able to keep lifebloom rolling on multiple people.
Recent Visitors: 164
All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (164)
- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- Class Discussion
- Resto healing MT always?
© 2024 Fanbyte LLC