One of our tanks is having real problem holding threat in 5-man heroics
Does anyone see any immediate problems with his gear or talents that may cause this
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Hydraxis&n=Irfsnag
I am tank dumb and trying to learn, my head is filled with hunter stats
Thanks in advance for your help
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Advice on one of my tanksFollow
spec's fine, i would however take the two points out of imp shield bash and put them in 2/5 demo shout.
imo, his rotation must be wrong. if he is having trouble holding threat when multitanking, tell him to keep tclap on cd, spam cleave when he has enough rage, then throw in the usual single target rotation of shield slam/revenge/devastate on the main target as rage permits, and if he is taking too much damage (looks like he would, dodge is low) then keep shield block on cd also.
if he is having trouble with single targets, the follow the same rotation as above except for weaving heroic strike in when rage permits (ie shield slam/revenge on cd and not coming off cd in the next few seconds).
also have everyone use the same version of omen, and l2read it.
imo, his rotation must be wrong. if he is having trouble holding threat when multitanking, tell him to keep tclap on cd, spam cleave when he has enough rage, then throw in the usual single target rotation of shield slam/revenge/devastate on the main target as rage permits, and if he is taking too much damage (looks like he would, dodge is low) then keep shield block on cd also.
if he is having trouble with single targets, the follow the same rotation as above except for weaving heroic strike in when rage permits (ie shield slam/revenge on cd and not coming off cd in the next few seconds).
also have everyone use the same version of omen, and l2read it.
If he cant hold aggro with that build, its because he's doing something wrong with his ability as a tank.
Question for you: does he lose the aggro of the main DPS mob? Does he lose the aggro of the adds? If the adds, are the adds going after DPS or the healer?
If the adds are after DPS, the DPSers are attacking the wrong target. lern2assist.
If the adds are on the healer, the tank needs to make sure to Tclap, demoshout, and toss around sunders on the adds, while keeping main threat on the main DPS.
If the tank is losing aggro to the main DPS target, he needs to make sure to be using shield slam every time its up, he needs to use revenge every time its up, and devastate in between. all while keeping tclap and demo shout up.
Question for you: does he lose the aggro of the main DPS mob? Does he lose the aggro of the adds? If the adds, are the adds going after DPS or the healer?
If the adds are after DPS, the DPSers are attacking the wrong target. lern2assist.
If the adds are on the healer, the tank needs to make sure to Tclap, demoshout, and toss around sunders on the adds, while keeping main threat on the main DPS.
If the tank is losing aggro to the main DPS target, he needs to make sure to be using shield slam every time its up, he needs to use revenge every time its up, and devastate in between. all while keeping tclap and demo shout up.
I've got a healer, and have seen this happen too. In heroics, when you are at the mobs that you can't CC, the tank may have to tank 3 mobs. That means MASSIVE incoming damage. With that much damage, I would have to spam large heals to keep the tank alive. Inevitably, this would lead to me getting aggro.
So.....here's what we did. Tanks in general can not tank 3 heroic mobs (unless they are Paladins who can open up with a ton of AoE threat, or rediculously over-geared). What we did was have one of the DPS kite one of the mobs. Hunters & Mages should be able to easily kite mobs. That will reduce the damage intake, thus reducing the heals needed. 3 DPS can take down a single mob fast enough.
Another option was to use the "lesser" CC moves. 6 second stuns and things like that will still work on most of those mobs. Rogues are especially helpful here.
I'm not sure this applies to your situation, but I found that it helped when we ran into threat issues.
So.....here's what we did. Tanks in general can not tank 3 heroic mobs (unless they are Paladins who can open up with a ton of AoE threat, or rediculously over-geared). What we did was have one of the DPS kite one of the mobs. Hunters & Mages should be able to easily kite mobs. That will reduce the damage intake, thus reducing the heals needed. 3 DPS can take down a single mob fast enough.
Another option was to use the "lesser" CC moves. 6 second stuns and things like that will still work on most of those mobs. Rogues are especially helpful here.
I'm not sure this applies to your situation, but I found that it helped when we ran into threat issues.
Our typical badge heroic is mech. Most groups throw down enough DPS that CC is not an issue. We control what we can with traps/sheep/banish/enslave and are left usually with 1-2 mobs for tank. It is usually the DPS pulling a single target when everyone is on the correct kill order. We all know to wait for sunders and watch Omen. His problem seems to be somewhat in grabbing the initial aggro even after his pull with my misdirect.
I will point this thread out to him and he may even stop in to ask for clarification. He knows it is an issue as well and wants to fix it.
I will also verify that we are all running Omen as current as possible for that hour.
As always you folks have delivered, thanks for the great replies.
I will point this thread out to him and he may even stop in to ask for clarification. He knows it is an issue as well and wants to fix it.
I will also verify that we are all running Omen as current as possible for that hour.
As always you folks have delivered, thanks for the great replies.
Quote:
In heroics, when you are at the mobs that you can't CC, the tank may have to tank 3 mobs. That means MASSIVE incoming damage. With that much damage, I would have to spam large heals to keep the tank alive. Inevitably, this would lead to me getting aggro.
So.....here's what we did. Tanks in general can not tank 3 heroic mobs
So.....here's what we did. Tanks in general can not tank 3 heroic mobs
That's BS. Completely and utterly. The threat generated by heals is divided by the number of mobs being tanked. A 6K heal on a tank tanking 4 mobs results in a mere 750 threat for the healer, not even counting any threat-reducing talents or the fact that you'd have to get beyond 130% of the tank's threat in the first place before getting aggro.
About the only limitation is TC only affecting up to 4 mobs. Perfect example would be the packs in heroic Ramparts, where the tank can easily grab 4 orcs and keep them attached to himself, while the dogs will usually run straight for the healer and need dealt with - not because of the tank taking any massive damage, but the heals creating SOME threat on those UNAFFECTED by TC.
Quote:
It is usually the DPS pulling a single target when everyone is on the correct kill order. We all know to wait for sunders and watch Omen.
one of these statements cannot be true. if DPS is pulling the main target, they are not watching omen closely enough. any dps'er can pull agro from an equally-geared tank if they are not careful. so, to allow your group dps to be higher, your tank needs to up his threat cap.
i can see a couple of easy tradeoffs your tank can make to increase his threat without gimping himself much:
2% threat enchant to gloves - awesome enchant, and it scales
shield spike
throw a +hit gem in the gun
[link]Breastplate of the Warbringer[/link] (+30 hit since my link didn't work :P)
as far as an "opener", i've heard two main thoughts. shield slam is a typical (and effective) opener; he's got 2/2 imp bloodrage, so that's an easy one. i've also heard some people like to open with a devastate and heroic strike together. that's a nice idea because if you miss a SS, you just started with zero. after your opener, settle into the normal threat rotation if you only have one target:
SS -> Rev -> Dev -> Dev -> SS -> Rev -> Dev -> Dev...
replace revenge with devastate the first one or two times through to get sunders up quicker.
multi-mob tanking is quite different; the focus is still on SS, but you may have to add some tab-devastates in between and keep thunderclap on cooldown.
Edited, May 21st 2008 6:02pm by marklartank
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