Sun Eater and now whatFollow

And there you have it. Swapping your TPS weapon for an avoidance/defense weapon only gives you a slightly higher chance to mitigate some incoming damage, but it guarantees that you're going to be putting out noticeably less threat.

It's not necessary and there's no point in it unless we're really getting down to splitting very fine hairs.

Uhhh right, that costs a bit over 900g on my server, and well, If you don't like my CB, you can find another tank <3.

it might have cost 900g the one time you looked for it, but really, its not that expensive. it really isnt.

and pshaw at that anyway, just get the PvP spell dmg mace.

The uncrushability difference between a Sun Eater and a Crystalforged Sword is 0.48%. The threat difference is MASSIVE.

The only times you should use a Sun Eater is when threat is a non-issue, i.e. the red beam on Netherspite. On any other fight your DPS raid members SHOULD be pushing your threat, or they need help.

I have a Sun Eater, and I can honestly say the only time I have ever used it is while soloing instances. Threat doesn't matter when you're alone. :)

I have a kings defender in the bank when we got fed up of DEing stuff, can't say i've ever found a use for it other than looking cool (it does look cool!)

I was offered a mallet of the tides once, but turned it down, think a rogue ended up with it!

you forgot to enchant your theorycraft with weapon chain. this adds another .5% avoidance through parry, which in turn generates additional threat based on the mechanic of swing speed.

also, why would i choose the shield block rating of crystalforge over the spell hit of continuum when considering a TPS weapon? would the block rating cause more reactive threat than the ~1% spell hit?

You forgot that enchants are independant of weapons. I could put a weapon chain on the crystalforged sword as well if I was concerned about uncrushability, returning the difference to 0.48%. In fact, we could even go so far as to say that a crystalforged sword with a weapon chain will both get you farther towards uncrushability AND have higher threat than a sun eater with 20 spell damage.



You touted the Sun Eater as a great weapon to get you to uncrushable. My reply was, basically, that you are sacrificing 121 spell damage for 0.48% uncrushability. This is a very very bad tradeoff. If you are concerned about uncrushability, there still is zero reason to use a Sun Eater.

If you are concerned about threat, yes there are lots of weapons that are better than a Crystalforged Sword, but we weren't talking about the best threat weapon. We were talking about when you would want to use a sun eater, and the answer is that there is no practical situation in either a 5-man or a raid where you should, unless you're so far ahead of your DPS in gear.

This.

I've stopped using my wings right from the get go, but instead waiting to pop them just before Phase 2. The DPS should be watching themselves during Phase 1, giving me plenty of leeway for building up that threat, where as Phase 2 is when I really need to pour it on: the DPS will be gunning as fast as they can to get to Phase 3.

Seriously, there is ONE person here saying that using a Warrior weapon over a caster weapon has its place, and he's mainly a Ret. Sooo ... yea. The spell immune wurms in Kara are about the only place I can really justify a Warrior weapon instead of a caster weapon, but then I just swap in my 2H instead.

And this makes you right on everything Prot? I think not. In fact I'd have to say "most" is a bit of an overstatement.



And exactly how much does this affect your actual avoidance? If you're already crushable, which tanking those bosses you'd be a fool not to be, then all you're doing is swapping in a slight miss/dodge/parry (depending on the particular weapon) for some block, not actually getting you "closer to uncrushable" as you stated earlier. It's not as big of a deal as you make it out to be.



No, and I don't believe anyone has said it was, so why are you making this an issue? The only issue I have with it is depending on your avoidance the block rating will simply fall off the table anyway. You have to be careful in your calculations so that this enchant will work for you, not be wasted mats.

Edited, May 21st 2008 11:09pm by Maulgak

UM i dont believe the suneater is worth enchanting unless you have the extra gold to spend gear that is going to spend 90% of its time in your bag.

I do feel that it does have its uses. Every little bit of avoidance helps and in phase 2 of prince for instance, not attacking and just having that equipped with +agil on it is a very incremental benefit.

But of course, i'm too lazy to do that and I just stand there and hit him anyway with the cudgel from h mgt on and spamming excorcism.

but once again i agree with the people who say having sun eater is more useless than the blue SD blades. I've NEVER equipped sun eater in any raid fight.

spell damage maces and the like are just way better. the cudgel has a blue socket for christ's sake!

The Cudgel of Consecration is a PvE-accessable tanking weapon that provides better threat than the PvP-required Gladiator's Gavel. For people that are in a highly specialized PvE spec, PvP generally sucks donkey nuts, so it's nice to have an alternative. However, when S4 comes out and you can get a Merciless Gladiator's Gavel for honor, that will be better.

The 1.9 speed is grossly overstated as having an influence, as weapon speed is far more important for warrior tanks.

And don't talk to me about knowing threat. I've raided on a prot warrior, a prot pally, and currently raid as a fury warrior. I probably know threat even better than you because I have absolutely zero emergency buttons to hit if I pull aggro, unlike pallies (bubble) and mages (ice block)

If you pull aggro, it's because YOU weren't paying attention.

continuing onto the cudgel comments...

When i first started tanking heroics, one thing I really wanted was the sun eater (pre 2.4) I dont know why i really wanted it, maybe because mech is such an easy heroic and i wanted sha'atar rep for the Crest of Sha'atar.


ANYWAy, like i said before, that weapon never came out of my bag. Left me wondering, is there any badge gear I can get to truly improve the weapon slot? no. only option was the pvp maces, but since my pally is a virgin to the realm of pvp, it just wasn't an option.

Then 2.4 came out, did what truly is an easy heroic, and got me a cudgel.

Now, that will hold me to hyjal hopefully or until akilzon drops ME an Amani Punisher, which, isn't THAT big of an upgrade anyway.

About weapon speed, 1.6, 1.8 whatever, yeah sure there are more optimal seals to judge or what not but as a pally tank, your true tanking shines in trash cuz u can hold multiple mobs, thus who really cares about the optimal threat on one mob? if a weapon adds u +200 spell damage on its own, thats gonna contribute much more in threat generation than the speed of it, IMO.

and well if you're Maintanking, there's nothing a little frontloading of threat with occasional cooldown use won't do.

blessing of salv, and righteous Fury, two reasons why pally's should never lose aggro with equally geared groups, and if they do, it probably wasn't their fault.

merc shield is very impressive i must agree.

makes me QQ that a pvp item is in most ways better than even the Amani Bulwark thingy,.