AotV and EndgameFollow

For some time I've been wondering how frequently Aspect of the Viper is used during endgame activities. Now I try to avoid being a "cookie-cutter" Hunter and basically chose talents according to what I thought was good for BM spec. However now that I'm nearing the almighty 70, I'm thinking of how things play with endgame and the use of Aspect of the Viper and Aspect of the Hawk.

Right now my current planned talent build is this (41/20/0). According to whether or not Aspect of the Viper is used a lot I might drop Endurance Training and Improved Concussive Shot for IAoftH and Efficiency.

I'm not looking for a "better build" answer, just some knowledge from the experienced to help me decided which build to take.

EDIT: How do I used wowhead...lulz.

Edited, May 15th 2008 7:06pm by Alkezo

This build is basically what all of the high end good hunter raiders use. It is a cookie cutter BM/MM build. Made for maximum DPS. As Aethien said, a cookie cutter build is a cookie cutter build because it is nearly indisputably the best build you can get of that kind. http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=cgbM0gxRVuVoVVbRV

As for Aspect of the Viper. I only tend to use it on really long boss fights when I run out mana fast and you might not even have to use it at all if you have a high Mp5 and a spirit buff from a priest.

Edited, May 15th 2008 10:15pm by BlackRevolution

He had it wrong.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=ctbM0gxRwuVoVVbRV

That is the cookie cutter BM raid build.



Imp revive pet is just better than the alternatives. If you or your pet get hit you're dead one way or the other so the extra armor from thick hide means nothing. Endurance Training is really just filler, but it helps against AoEs, which is the only way you or your pet should really be taking damage. Animal handler is a must. Two points there is crucial. Improved Concussive is completely useless in raiding. Efficiency is pretty sweet. Personally, I spec imp mark, but efficiency is better. You only need 4 points in frenzy to keep FI and frenzy up.

<insertrandomcursewordshere> you are survival dammit, and you get better synergy than most people >:(
All of us who have to do with just hunters and a feral in our group actually go OoM at the end of long bossfights :(

I use Aspect of the Viper every now and again. Even with Blessing of Wisdom, Major Mageblood Elixirs and Mana Oil, I can still go OOM- with my pots on cooldown. It takes having a Shadow Priest in my group to keep my Mana up without it.

But I did notice earlier, that when I switched from Hawk to Viper at around 15% mana during Mag today, I was actually regenerating mana, rather than just slowing the drain. The latest buff to it is AMAZING. At level 70, it gives an extra 24 mp/5. Of course, with the regen curve for Viper, I stopped gaining mana at around 40%, and just sat stuck there, so I went back to Hawk.

Fel mana pots ofcourse, those things are hawt :3
You can drink them earlier, get more mana and a static amount.

I run it all the time, the only time I DON'T run it is when someone gets a judgement of wisdom up on the boss. For some reason, even though I'm the raid leader, I always manage to get stuck in the misc group when it comes to dps. I don't get the feral druid, I don't get the shadow priest, I don't get the enhancement shaman (or even resto shaman for that matter). I always get stuck in the misc group with offtanks and off healers and what not, so basically my ONLY buff is stuff I give myself. And if last night is any indication I really don't do bad considering that. Now the other day I was doing tidewalker and my mana kept being nearly full, so I ended up switching to hawk for the entire fight, but that's rare for me.

I use Viper for soloing/farming. It reduces downtime to virtually zero.

In raid fights, I only use Viper at the end of a long fight when I'm waiting for the cooldown on a mana pot. As soon as that cooldown is up, I switch right back to Hawk.

Also, when I switch to Viper in a boss fight, I simplify my rotation to a 1:1 to minimize mana use.

Long bossfights :-) Those are not the problem if you pot early and if you have at least some manareg buffs. If you take the manapot if you run low on mana then you won't last, but if you pot after you are missing the first 2-3k mana, then you should be golden.

Yes, I'm survival but currently I only have 2/3 in Thrill of the Hunt (specced 0/20/41 for our Brutallus tries).
Normally I don't have very much group synergy. We usually run with one or two hunters which prevents groups designed for us hunters. If I'm lucky I get a feral druid, if not I'm stuck with 2-3 trees and 1-2 pallies.
Also I do have the wonderful task of skorpid-sting duty at least 90% of the time. This alone increases my mana consumption by ~100mp5.
And when I'm not trying my wonderful new 3:2 macro, I do a 1.5:1 rotation which uses quite some mana.
The thing which easily keeps my mana up is the nice alchemist stone which yields 40% extra mana.

My mana suddenly gets a lot better when one of our pally specs retribution and keeps judgement of wisdom up. By then I gain mana instead of loosing it which allows for some haste pots :-)
But this is by no means standard, although we try to put a ret pally into our normal raid setup from now on.

I do use them, I bring 20+ to raids. I also use superior mana oil. I don't have to burn them constantly, I usually use 1-2 per fight and its all I need. So shush, you.

If it is farm content, why bother? After the 10th full clear everybody is just phoning it in anyway.

But we're not talking grinding or PvP. "Endgame" usually = Raiding.

And if you're raiding, you'll usually have a mage in the group for Mana biscuits. I have yet to use all 80 biscuits during a raid because I don't have Viper on during trash pulls.

Oh, and here's an interesting whisper I got today from a new hunter in my guild: "Do you ever use Viper during bossfights?"
"no."
"Well, if you use Aspect of the Viper, and use Draenic Wisdom elixirs, you regenerate just as much mana as if you use mageblood elixirs."

I was seriously about to hit my head against my desk. Like... the corner of my desk. Where do people get these ideas? Assuming I have enough base Intellect for that to be true, why in the WORLD would I sacrifice 155AP when I can pay a little bit more money for a superior elixir?