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DoT Refresh When Proc Activates?Follow

#1 May 13 2008 at 12:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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So I had someone pose me a question, and it involves a lot more math than I feel like doing right now.

Let's say you are an affliction lock with two piece T4. You have your boss mob dotted up, and your set bonus procs giving you an additional 135 +dmg to shadow spells.

Do you refresh UA, SL, Corr and Agony? Agony provided you aren't on CoS duty.

Is the bonus damage on a new spell better than letting a DoT run the duration? This is also assuming there is more time left on the DoT than there is on your proc, if there was less, you just let it run out then refresh all your dots.
#2 May 13 2008 at 12:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Without having done any math on in, i´d say no
You gain no benefit from the mana already spent nor do you benefit from the Global Cooldown spent already, so it´s probably not worht it.
#3 May 13 2008 at 1:01 PM Rating: Good
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I wouldn't bother refreshing DoTs unless they're about to run out anyway. No amount of spell damage is worth the extra mana and GCD, especially when you ccan get the same extra damage by shadowbolting.
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#4 May 13 2008 at 1:01 PM Rating: Decent
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I'd also have to say no. I'm not gonna do the math either though. If you did do the math you could probably find a point at each DoT that it does become worth it. Like if there's less than 3 seconds left it is worth it, but if more than your better off just leaving it. What it really boils down too though is you'll lower your damage per mana by refreshing the DoTs before they expire. That means more Life Taps and less Shadowbolts. Less Shadowbolts=Lower DPS.
#5 May 13 2008 at 1:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Most likely it will not be worth it but some sort of spec and stats would be needed to do the math on it. If you want to provide the numbers I could do the math for it.
#6 May 13 2008 at 1:27 PM Rating: Decent
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If the second-to-last tick just hit, occasionally third-to-last (if you've got a *ton* of procs), then it's okay to refresh early. Losing more than one tick is usually a DPS loss compared to sbolting/flaying/whatever instead.
#7 May 13 2008 at 5:31 PM Rating: Good
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never refresh a dot if it still has ticks remaining. both a massive dps decrease and a massive waste of mana
#8 May 14 2008 at 8:42 AM Rating: Good
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Twirdman wrote:
Most likely it will not be worth it but some sort of spec and stats would be needed to do the math on it. If you want to provide the numbers I could do the math for it.


http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Stormscale&n=Azryek
#9 May 14 2008 at 9:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Warlord Filterspawn wrote:
Twirdman wrote:
Most likely it will not be worth it but some sort of spec and stats would be needed to do the math on it. If you want to provide the numbers I could do the math for it.


http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Stormscale&n=Azryek


Ok I will run the numbers when I get home in like another 12 hours so I should have it by late tonight early tommarow, if you don't mind I will be assuming you are hit capped because the math becomes exponentially harder when you include the chance for resist.

Edited, May 14th 2008 1:11pm by Twirdman
#10 May 14 2008 at 10:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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Good on ya Twird for deciding to do the maths full on, but correct me if I'm wrong, a simple formula for just DPS would be:


X = (Remaining DoT time/Entire DoT time) * DoT mana cost
Y= (1.5/Entire DoT time) * DoT Damage
Z= 3/5 of SB Damage OR Dps of another DoT * 1.5 (Y)

((Dmg of DoT + (135 * Co-efficient)) / DoT Duration - (Dmg of DoT / DoT Duration)
- ((Mana cost of DoT-(X)) / Mana gained from LifeTap) * Z
- (DoT Time Remaining/DoT Duration) * Z

- ((3 - Time till DoT tick) * Original DoT dps) / DoT Duration

=Change in DPS =)

The first calculates the increase of DPS for the DoT that is reapplied while the proc is up.

The second line calculates how much dps you are losing by using up mana, and therefore having to use up the GCD for another LifeTap/Darkpact.

e.g If the spell cost 400 mana, and you get 800 back from LifeTap/Darkpact, the DoT would then be costing an extra .5 of a lifetap/darkpact GCD (.75 sec), therefore 3/10 of a shadowbolt or 1.5 of a DoT's DPS.

The Z bit is just the damage that could have been done during the GCD.

The X bit calculates how much mana you are really losing, as you would have refreshed the DoT in a bit anyway, so the mana loss only occurs from the part of the DoT still ticking.

e.g Corruption costs "500" mana, but you have five seconds to go. Therefore the amount of mana that you are losing is (5/18 x 500) giving a total loss of 138 mana. This makes the example for the one I used above wrong! But its simple so I'm not gonna change it.

The third line is the DPS lost to a GCD. As you are not going to use up an entire GCD due to having to refresh the DoT after it expires, this is just the fraction of the old DoT that is wasted.

E.g You have 6 seconds left on a 18 seconds spell. That would equal one third of a GCD because if you do this three times, thats 18 seconds of that DoT that was 'wasted', equaling a GCD.

The fourth line is the DPS lost due to having the previous DoT closer to ticking than the new one.

You also have to take in the fact that refreshing the DoT before time costs extra resources compared to relatively little gain, a resist would decrease your DPS even more + use up more resources. However this might be slightly beneficial in a fight where you are stunned a lot, as that way you have less time with no DoTs ticking.

Personally, I wouldn't bother refreshing an existing DoT as the proc is 15 seconds long, so chances are your DoTs would run out during its duration anyway. I'd rather Shadowbolt, as that can crit and also activiate ISB (something else that should be included in calculations, but I can't be bothered).

Also, Agony should always be allowed to run to the full as it does most of its damage at the end.


Co-efficients


Have fun!

Edit: Boy did I stuff up the first time >.>

Conclusion : After doing a couple of short calcs, the DPS lost to GCD and mana induced GCD is more than 100x greater than the dps increase caused by that proc.
e.g
135/18 = 8
3/5 of a shadowbolt= ~1200
0.o Massive as stated by Jenovaomega unless you only have a very few seconds remaining, and the proc is about to run out aswell.

Disclaimer: Its four o'clock in the morning and I just woke up....... ^.^

Edited, May 14th 2008 8:58pm by germa
#11 May 14 2008 at 11:52 AM Rating: Good
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In that gear and spec hit is capped for all DoT's.

Edited to replace geat with gear Smiley: tongue

Edited, May 14th 2008 8:41pm by Filterspawn
#12 May 14 2008 at 12:34 PM Rating: Decent
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129 posts
Good man

Edited, May 14th 2008 8:47pm by germa
#13 May 14 2008 at 6:46 PM Rating: Decent
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546 posts
germa wrote:
Good on ya Twird for deciding to do the maths full on, but correct me if I'm wrong, a simple formula for just DPS would be:


X = (Remaining DoT time/Entire DoT time) * DoT mana cost
Y= (1.5/Entire DoT time) * DoT Damage
Z= 3/5 of SB Damage OR Dps of another DoT * 1.5 (Y)

((Dmg of DoT + (135 * Co-efficient)) / DoT Duration - (Dmg of DoT / DoT Duration)
- ((Mana cost of DoT-(X)) / Mana gained from LifeTap) * Z
- (DoT Time Remaining/DoT Duration) * Z

- ((3 - Time till DoT tick) * Original DoT dps) / DoT Duration

=Change in DPS =)

The first calculates the increase of DPS for the DoT that is reapplied while the proc is up.

The second line calculates how much dps you are losing by using up mana, and therefore having to use up the GCD for another LifeTap/Darkpact.

e.g If the spell cost 400 mana, and you get 800 back from LifeTap/Darkpact, the DoT would then be costing an extra .5 of a lifetap/darkpact GCD (.75 sec), therefore 3/10 of a shadowbolt or 1.5 of a DoT's DPS.

The Z bit is just the damage that could have been done during the GCD.

The X bit calculates how much mana you are really losing, as you would have refreshed the DoT in a bit anyway, so the mana loss only occurs from the part of the DoT still ticking.

e.g Corruption costs "500" mana, but you have five seconds to go. Therefore the amount of mana that you are losing is (5/18 x 500) giving a total loss of 138 mana. This makes the example for the one I used above wrong! But its simple so I'm not gonna change it.

The third line is the DPS lost to a GCD. As you are not going to use up an entire GCD due to having to refresh the DoT after it expires, this is just the fraction of the old DoT that is wasted.

E.g You have 6 seconds left on a 18 seconds spell. That would equal one third of a GCD because if you do this three times, thats 18 seconds of that DoT that was 'wasted', equaling a GCD.

The fourth line is the DPS lost due to having the previous DoT closer to ticking than the new one.

You also have to take in the fact that refreshing the DoT before time costs extra resources compared to relatively little gain, a resist would decrease your DPS even more + use up more resources. However this might be slightly beneficial in a fight where you are stunned a lot, as that way you have less time with no DoTs ticking.

Personally, I wouldn't bother refreshing an existing DoT as the proc is 15 seconds long, so chances are your DoTs would run out during its duration anyway. I'd rather Shadowbolt, as that can crit and also activiate ISB (something else that should be included in calculations, but I can't be bothered).

Also, Agony should always be allowed to run to the full as it does most of its damage at the end.


Co-efficients


Have fun!

Edit: Boy did I stuff up the first time >.>

Conclusion : After doing a couple of short calcs, the DPS lost to GCD and mana induced GCD is more than 100x greater than the dps increase caused by that proc.
e.g
135/18 = 8
3/5 of a shadowbolt= ~1200
0.o Massive as stated by Jenovaomega unless you only have a very few seconds remaining, and the proc is about to run out aswell.

Disclaimer: Its four o'clock in the morning and I just woke up....... ^.^

Edited, May 14th 2008 8:58pm by germa


Well with that there I really don't want to bother running the numbers since he can easily put it in. Though if you do want it done just ask.
#14 May 17 2008 at 11:37 AM Rating: Decent
Even if you were gaining like 500+ spell damage, or hell even more, it would be unwise to recast DoTs up for many of the reasons posted here.

Ignoring the total mana-inefficiency of it, and looking at just the damage:

You're taking GCDs (and a cast for UA) to recast a DoT that is already doing a certain amount of damage, so that you can up the Damage of the DoT -- fair enough. You are also missing out on straight SBolt damage ALSO affected by said +Spell Damage.

By dotting, yes you are essensially extending the +Damage, but you are not amplifying it in any way. If you look at your damage output on Boss fights you will find (Dependant on Spec, use of SL, use of Doom/Shadows/Agony) you're SBolts will easily make up about 50% of your damage, much much more under certain circumstances.

Definatly take any chances to apply new DoTs, but don't waste your time refreshing stuff that's already workin fine.
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