how is arcane mages in 25-mans?
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48 posts
As far as I know, arcane mage does nice DPS, but they're mana inneficient. They need a shadowpriest teamed with them.
Scholar
33 posts
2 piece t5 go arcane, if no stick with others
currently, without 4pT6, arcane frost 40/21 is the best damage spec
at arcane, you can got 2 choice
1)AB all the way until you had use all your CD(potion,mana gem, evo) then you frostbolt all the way until your CD of pot and gem is back up, then AB again
2) 3x AB, 3x frostbolt . The idea is to keep the AB debuff up all the time, where you start casting when the debuff is still there, but when it finish casting and it hit the mob, the debuff is down. So you are casting with the speed of the debuff, but using the mana which did not account the debuff
hope you get what i mean
currently, without 4pT6, arcane frost 40/21 is the best damage spec
at arcane, you can got 2 choice
1)AB all the way until you had use all your CD(potion,mana gem, evo) then you frostbolt all the way until your CD of pot and gem is back up, then AB again
2) 3x AB, 3x frostbolt . The idea is to keep the AB debuff up all the time, where you start casting when the debuff is still there, but when it finish casting and it hit the mob, the debuff is down. So you are casting with the speed of the debuff, but using the mana which did not account the debuff
hope you get what i mean
samleetingal wrote:
2 piece t5 go arcane, if no stick with others
currently, without 4pT6, arcane frost 40/21 is the best damage spec
at arcane, you can got 2 choice
1)AB all the way until you had use all your CD(potion,mana gem, evo) then you frostbolt all the way until your CD of pot and gem is back up, then AB again
2) 3x AB, 3x frostbolt . The idea is to keep the AB debuff up all the time, where you start casting when the debuff is still there, but when it finish casting and it hit the mob, the debuff is down. So you are casting with the speed of the debuff, but using the mana which did not account the debuff
hope you get what i mean
currently, without 4pT6, arcane frost 40/21 is the best damage spec
at arcane, you can got 2 choice
1)AB all the way until you had use all your CD(potion,mana gem, evo) then you frostbolt all the way until your CD of pot and gem is back up, then AB again
2) 3x AB, 3x frostbolt . The idea is to keep the AB debuff up all the time, where you start casting when the debuff is still there, but when it finish casting and it hit the mob, the debuff is down. So you are casting with the speed of the debuff, but using the mana which did not account the debuff
hope you get what i mean
any theorycrafting to prove this? As far as I know 2/48/11 (or 0/47/11 + 3) is the best overall damage spec in the game.
Scholar
33 posts
hm...sorry. forget to quote this that i read it from elitist jerks forum.
and yes, 2/48/11 is the best in the game when you get 4piece T6. 5% to fireball and such is way way too good :)
but when at T5, arcane is good :)
PS: elitist jerks forum is way too long, and some of them are old as in its for patch 2.3.
and yes, 2/48/11 is the best in the game when you get 4piece T6. 5% to fireball and such is way way too good :)
but when at T5, arcane is good :)
PS: elitist jerks forum is way too long, and some of them are old as in its for patch 2.3.
Within the last month and a half i've gone raiding frost/fire/arcane.
I find them all to be viable,
frost once you reach t6 gear platue's from what i feel. I havn't respecced back to frost since first switch.
Fire pulled much more agro, but can do its damage and then some. not so well in trash.
Just this week i respecced arcane, still toying with my rotations, so much of it is dependent on where your mana is at and were the boss is at.
Arcane cons:
- I've used more mana potions in the last week than i have the last year.
- You will go oom often/multiple times a fight.
- Self buffed,with int and mage armor. 360mp5 out of cast and 224mp5while cast. and 11816 mana and i still go oom. I raid with a spriest and ele shammy.
- Long boss fights suck, get friendly with a druid and steal his innervate.
- Agrivating when your always oom
- did i mention you'll go out of mana?
Arcane Pros:
- 40% less threat = aammaazing.
- Lots more to think about, makes it kinda fun.
- AOE = funny with arcane power.
Lost my train of thought. I've had a few guildy's tell me to stay arcane for life. I'm torn because the mana issue's is rough. But ending fights with 1700-2000dps and doubl'ing the dmg of some of raid is fun to brag about. And ZA is fun since all boss's only last 3 minutes. In short, arcane is doable only with lots of spirit, a spriest and the shammy.
I'm sure i forgot somethig, but i've only been arcane for one week's worth of raiding. And one za run.
I find them all to be viable,
frost once you reach t6 gear platue's from what i feel. I havn't respecced back to frost since first switch.
Fire pulled much more agro, but can do its damage and then some. not so well in trash.
Just this week i respecced arcane, still toying with my rotations, so much of it is dependent on where your mana is at and were the boss is at.
Arcane cons:
- I've used more mana potions in the last week than i have the last year.
- You will go oom often/multiple times a fight.
- Self buffed,with int and mage armor. 360mp5 out of cast and 224mp5while cast. and 11816 mana and i still go oom. I raid with a spriest and ele shammy.
- Long boss fights suck, get friendly with a druid and steal his innervate.
- Agrivating when your always oom
- did i mention you'll go out of mana?
Arcane Pros:
- 40% less threat = aammaazing.
- Lots more to think about, makes it kinda fun.
- AOE = funny with arcane power.
Lost my train of thought. I've had a few guildy's tell me to stay arcane for life. I'm torn because the mana issue's is rough. But ending fights with 1700-2000dps and doubl'ing the dmg of some of raid is fun to brag about. And ZA is fun since all boss's only last 3 minutes. In short, arcane is doable only with lots of spirit, a spriest and the shammy.
I'm sure i forgot somethig, but i've only been arcane for one week's worth of raiding. And one za run.
Isn't the truth of the matter that 10/48/3 is the most damage-efficient spec, not the highest DPS?
I mean, AB spam is the highest DPS rotation, right? Or at least, with Arcane talents.
The only problem is that it's incredibly mana-inefficient, therefore completely throwing out the idea of spamming Arcane Blast. 10/48/3 is the most bang for its buck. It's got high damage without nearly the same mana inefficiency.
And that's why people go 2/48/11 now--because they don't need the best price, but can afford to have a slightly worse deal for more product (more DPS). At least, people go 2/48/11 if they have sufficient mana regen.
So I'm thinking... perhaps an Arcane Build with Arcane Blast Spam could work... if you gimp your spell damage and focus a lot more on spirit and intellect.
It's complete imagination, of course. I'm just speculating with dangerous ideas. But there are priests out there in Tier 6 with 320 Mana Regen During Casting, because they've stacked spirit and intellect appropriately. Mages are capable of the same regeneration--actually, more with Mage Armor--but, of course, mages are constantly casting. They don't cancel spells in reaction to the tank's health of anything.
Okay, I'm COMPLETELY offtopic now. I'll stop planting dangerous (stupid) ideas.
I mean, AB spam is the highest DPS rotation, right? Or at least, with Arcane talents.
The only problem is that it's incredibly mana-inefficient, therefore completely throwing out the idea of spamming Arcane Blast. 10/48/3 is the most bang for its buck. It's got high damage without nearly the same mana inefficiency.
And that's why people go 2/48/11 now--because they don't need the best price, but can afford to have a slightly worse deal for more product (more DPS). At least, people go 2/48/11 if they have sufficient mana regen.
So I'm thinking... perhaps an Arcane Build with Arcane Blast Spam could work... if you gimp your spell damage and focus a lot more on spirit and intellect.
It's complete imagination, of course. I'm just speculating with dangerous ideas. But there are priests out there in Tier 6 with 320 Mana Regen During Casting, because they've stacked spirit and intellect appropriately. Mages are capable of the same regeneration--actually, more with Mage Armor--but, of course, mages are constantly casting. They don't cancel spells in reaction to the tank's health of anything.
Okay, I'm COMPLETELY offtopic now. I'll stop planting dangerous (stupid) ideas.
Raglu wrote:
So I'm thinking... perhaps an Arcane Build with Arcane Blast Spam could work... if you gimp your spell damage and focus a lot more on spirit and intellect.
<snip>
Okay, I'm COMPLETELY offtopic now. I'll stop planting dangerous (stupid) ideas.
<snip>
Okay, I'm COMPLETELY offtopic now. I'll stop planting dangerous (stupid) ideas.
I've actually seen discussion about that kind of a DPS build and rotations, and I've seen it in action.
It's pretty powerful, though I can usually outdo the guy on bosses.
I've read through quite a few posts on how this build is supposed to work, after you use all your cooldown/etc you cast frostbolt until another one comes up then AB spam again. I'm still waiting to see definitive dps numbers between that and 2/48/11 though.
Here's 2 Hyjal nights with me as arcane, Just to give some thoughts.
http://wowwebstats.com/stq2axy2mqs3k?m
http://wowwebstats.com/jvr2rqknoca45?m
First time downing those two bosses for my guild.
http://wowwebstats.com/stq2axy2mqs3k?m
http://wowwebstats.com/jvr2rqknoca45?m
First time downing those two bosses for my guild.
CalenciaBlue wrote:
Here's 2 Hyjal nights with me as arcane, Just to give some thoughts.
http://wowwebstats.com/stq2axy2mqs3k?m
http://wowwebstats.com/jvr2rqknoca45?m
First time downing those two bosses for my guild.
http://wowwebstats.com/stq2axy2mqs3k?m
http://wowwebstats.com/jvr2rqknoca45?m
First time downing those two bosses for my guild.
grats on the kaz/az kills.
how was the kaz'rogal mana drain while you were helping him out with that with the AB spam?
It's actualy not too bad, because once i got in the danger zone, and have evocate/gem/mana pot on cooldown, the mana regen with the spirit gear kept me alive for the next hit. So as other casters were going down i stay'ed alive whole fight. And if i resisted one its that much mana i gained back untill cooldowns were up. I dont know if it was the kill, but one of them i even used arcane power haha, that was dumb of me.
13 posts
Arcane has a tendency to be misrepresented. It's a spec that takes lots of specific gear, specific group make-up, and lots of practice.
When you first get 2 peices of T5, you spec 50/0/11. With this setup you arcane blast as much as you can, weaving in AM + Scorch into your rotation to slow down your mana consumption. All that is really needed for this spec is a good shadow priest.
Once you hit t6 content and start getting something along the lines of 300+ spirit, 1250+ spell damage, 25-30% spell crit, you spec 40/0/21. With this spec you AB spam weaving in frost bolts to slow down your mana consumption. This setup generally requires a ret pally or resto shaman in addition to a shadow priest to top fire mages.
The ultimate goal of all arcane setups is to finish the fight with 0 mana and all cooldowns used. In this aspect arcane can easily be superior to fire, since chain chugging pots and mana gems as fire spec, you have a tendency to not go oom, and are therefore not reaching your full potential.
For more arcane information or advice see Fireangel on the official WoW forums. Also Anobix he has parses to arcane beating fire but I don't have the links to any of them.
When you first get 2 peices of T5, you spec 50/0/11. With this setup you arcane blast as much as you can, weaving in AM + Scorch into your rotation to slow down your mana consumption. All that is really needed for this spec is a good shadow priest.
Once you hit t6 content and start getting something along the lines of 300+ spirit, 1250+ spell damage, 25-30% spell crit, you spec 40/0/21. With this spec you AB spam weaving in frost bolts to slow down your mana consumption. This setup generally requires a ret pally or resto shaman in addition to a shadow priest to top fire mages.
The ultimate goal of all arcane setups is to finish the fight with 0 mana and all cooldowns used. In this aspect arcane can easily be superior to fire, since chain chugging pots and mana gems as fire spec, you have a tendency to not go oom, and are therefore not reaching your full potential.
For more arcane information or advice see Fireangel on the official WoW forums. Also Anobix he has parses to arcane beating fire but I don't have the links to any of them.
Magenslayer wrote:
The ultimate goal of all arcane setups is to finish the fight with 0 mana and all cooldowns used. In this aspect arcane can easily be superior to fire, since chain chugging pots and mana gems as fire spec, you have a tendency to not go oom, and are therefore not reaching your full potential.
That's what Flame Caps and Destro pots are for.
13 posts
That and the added haste gear from sunwell has caused fire to pull ahead in sunwell, however for hyjal/bt arcane has some wonderful advantages.
I do still have two pieces of T5 (not the ones that I would love to have, but shoulders and gloves could do the trick). I wouldn't mind testing it, but I would probably only do it for Kara to not waste time in Hyjal/BT
Scholar
33 posts
the shorter the boss fight is, the better it is for arcane :p
as from what i read, MH boss are normally short, so guess it is good for arcane then
the longer time you using frostbolt, your dps will go down more
anobix, once you try it out please let us know ;)
as from what i read, MH boss are normally short, so guess it is good for arcane then
the longer time you using frostbolt, your dps will go down more
anobix, once you try it out please let us know ;)
Scholar
38 posts
I spec arcane, currently with T4 gear, 43/15/3 with about 11500 mana (with AI but before GoTW and kings buff). I join my guild in raids only recently and not the top damage yet because my guildmates outgear me at the moment, but i am around the top 35%.
The way I see it: better finish a fight with no mana, no gems, potion and evocation on cooldown than having a half-full mana bar which is of no use anway. Gold is only an online currency and since I am paying the monthly subscrition, better enjoy the game than trying to see how much gold I can save on consumables.
For thrash and small minor bosses, I just spam AB. The trick is to consume a gem when your mana reaches 80%, so that the gem tops it up to full. Do the same with mana potion, continue to spam AB until mana runs out. By now, most if not all thrash mobs will be dead. If it is a mini-boss, step back and cast evocation, return to combat spaming AB again. When i run out of mana again, the cooldown for gem and potion should be over, so just take them and continue casting. There are few ocassions bosses won't fall under this continuous spanking.
In cases where I know we can't burn the boss down in such direct manner, just rotate AB with fireball and fireblast, or ice bolt, but maintain the same gem/potion consumption and evocation guide. With a shadow priest and mage armour and some movement of the entire raid during different stages of the fight, the only time I run out of mana is when the boss is dead or 1% left in his health.
By the way, if your group can run out of mana, spells and item cooldown etc and still can't take down the boss, you are either undergeared or using the wrong tactic.
Edited, May 12th 2008 11:36am by whitegreen
The way I see it: better finish a fight with no mana, no gems, potion and evocation on cooldown than having a half-full mana bar which is of no use anway. Gold is only an online currency and since I am paying the monthly subscrition, better enjoy the game than trying to see how much gold I can save on consumables.
For thrash and small minor bosses, I just spam AB. The trick is to consume a gem when your mana reaches 80%, so that the gem tops it up to full. Do the same with mana potion, continue to spam AB until mana runs out. By now, most if not all thrash mobs will be dead. If it is a mini-boss, step back and cast evocation, return to combat spaming AB again. When i run out of mana again, the cooldown for gem and potion should be over, so just take them and continue casting. There are few ocassions bosses won't fall under this continuous spanking.
In cases where I know we can't burn the boss down in such direct manner, just rotate AB with fireball and fireblast, or ice bolt, but maintain the same gem/potion consumption and evocation guide. With a shadow priest and mage armour and some movement of the entire raid during different stages of the fight, the only time I run out of mana is when the boss is dead or 1% left in his health.
By the way, if your group can run out of mana, spells and item cooldown etc and still can't take down the boss, you are either undergeared or using the wrong tactic.
Edited, May 12th 2008 11:36am by whitegreen
Well, I just wanted to update this thread. I saw the power of a person playing an arcane mage (a mage that my guild picked up from a guild that died who has had Illidan on farm for some time). He was doing fantastic dps, but at the sight of last night (Illidari council down btw, woot!) we didn't have an spriest for him, he said it was fairly 'challenging' to do it. So if you have the help of mana regen, I say to go for it and give it a shot. If you do not, then I would stick with a normal fire build. Oh, and he wasn't using 2xT5 either.
46 posts
question from a noob.
when you guys say T4-T5 gear what are you refering too exactly?
when you guys say T4-T5 gear what are you refering too exactly?
Anobix the Wise wrote:
Well, I just wanted to update this thread. I saw the power of a person playing an arcane mage (a mage that my guild picked up from a guild that died who has had Illidan on farm for some time). He was doing fantastic dps, but at the sight of last night (Illidari council down btw, woot!) we didn't have an spriest for him, he said it was fairly 'challenging' to do it. So if you have the help of mana regen, I say to go for it and give it a shot. If you do not, then I would stick with a normal fire build. Oh, and he wasn't using 2xT5 either.
Could you link his armory? I'm interested in his stats.
Scholar
23 posts
> 10/48/3 is the most bang for its buck.
Wanding is the most bang for its buck. If you only count spells, Frostbolt spam with a CSD on top of a 125% crit bonus would probably trump fire in DPM.
Fire+IV* is the highest DPS build with a mana cost easily sustainable over any fight currently in the game.
DPS: Arcane Blast Spam
DPM: Wand
Win: Fire+IV*
EDIT: Wait, what? 10/48/3? Who uses that anymore? Changed to Fire+IV.
Edited, May 17th 2008 4:08am by sauceror
Wanding is the most bang for its buck. If you only count spells, Frostbolt spam with a CSD on top of a 125% crit bonus would probably trump fire in DPM.
Fire+IV* is the highest DPS build with a mana cost easily sustainable over any fight currently in the game.
DPS: Arcane Blast Spam
DPM: Wand
Win: Fire+IV*
EDIT: Wait, what? 10/48/3? Who uses that anymore? Changed to Fire+IV.
Edited, May 17th 2008 4:08am by sauceror
Raglu wrote:
Anobix the Wise wrote:
Well, I just wanted to update this thread. I saw the power of a person playing an arcane mage (a mage that my guild picked up from a guild that died who has had Illidan on farm for some time). He was doing fantastic dps, but at the sight of last night (Illidari council down btw, woot!) we didn't have an spriest for him, he said it was fairly 'challenging' to do it. So if you have the help of mana regen, I say to go for it and give it a shot. If you do not, then I would stick with a normal fire build. Oh, and he wasn't using 2xT5 either.
Could you link his armory? I'm interested in his stats.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Stormscale&n=Easye
Anobix the Wise wrote:
Raglu wrote:
Anobix the Wise wrote:
Well, I just wanted to update this thread. I saw the power of a person playing an arcane mage (a mage that my guild picked up from a guild that died who has had Illidan on farm for some time). He was doing fantastic dps, but at the sight of last night (Illidari council down btw, woot!) we didn't have an spriest for him, he said it was fairly 'challenging' to do it. So if you have the help of mana regen, I say to go for it and give it a shot. If you do not, then I would stick with a normal fire build. Oh, and he wasn't using 2xT5 either.
Could you link his armory? I'm interested in his stats.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Stormscale&n=Easye
Quote:
Character Data Unavailable
It seems like the character you are trying to view is not currently available on the Armory. Since the Armory data is periodically updated, this character needs to have been active recently for detailed character data to show up. Character profiles that have been updated recently may display this message as a result of high server load.
It seems like the character you are trying to view is not currently available on the Armory. Since the Armory data is periodically updated, this character needs to have been active recently for detailed character data to show up. Character profiles that have been updated recently may display this message as a result of high server load.
;_;
shows up fine for me right now, he has 1314 arcane damage, what other info would you like to know? 3pc t6 (head, shoulders, and gloves right now).
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