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Approaching KaraFollow

#1 May 08 2008 at 8:57 AM Rating: Decent
My character

69 Gnome

Time for me to get serious I suppose. For months I've been soloing and just having a good old time, but as I get close to end-game events I figured I'd put more effort in.

I was planning on getting 2-3 PVP pieces (Galdiator's Felweave) from my saved HP/marks as soon as I hit 70. I know PVP gear isn't the best but it will be better than what I have until I can replace it with Kara loot.

So my first question - which 2-3 PVP pieces (helm, war staff, etc) would last me the longest once I start raiding?

Second question - Is there something I should be working on in particular toward end-game? From the little I've read, capped Spell Hit Rating seems to be the primary goal, at least when going Destruction.

I probably will end up with a 0/21/40 build. I'm not sure which questions need to be asked in order to get the answers I need. I assume my spec of choice will dictate the rest of my effort.

Cheers

#2 May 09 2008 at 5:11 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
From the little I've read, capped Spell Hit Rating seems to be the primary goal, at least when going Destruction.


See the min/max dps affliction thread on this front page here. There is a spreadsheet you can download and put your gear into. Then you can play with the specs there to see what will do the largest dps for you. Generally speaking, affliction is the best spec to go with in early kara, but again... check the spreadsheet. You can find it at elitistjerks.com I believe.
#3 May 09 2008 at 5:52 AM Rating: Decent
AAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHH! A GNOME!!

Seriously though...best way to approach Kara is via the back door.

No, no...just kidding.

Having done Kara a couple of times only now (and when I say done - I mean 2 boss fights), I'm seriously considering respeccing to Affliction. It is, for me, a waste of time being Demo in a boss fight. I don't have the concentration for managing my FG AND outputting DPS.

So back to Aff/Imp, cap +hit and stack +dam - I could do it for questing - just didn't like it. But if I'm gonna raid seriously, it has to be Aff for me.

Destro is likely to be just as viable though, mate. Stack that +crit!!
#4 May 09 2008 at 6:04 AM Rating: Decent
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For Destro:

1. 180-202 Spell Hit
2. 1k+ Shadow Dmg
3. 20% Crit

For Affliction:
1. 76 Spell hit
2. As much shadow damage you can get
3. DoTs can't Crit

For affliction the gladiators spellblade and off-hand
For Destro the gladiators war(?) staff. And get the FSW tailored set if you are tailor, and Spellstrike as well.
#5 May 09 2008 at 6:57 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
For Destro:

1. 180-202 Spell Hit
2. 1k+ Shadow Dmg
3. 20% Crit


That +hit is way too high. I have 1K shadow dmg, 15% crit and 150 +hit (it was also calculated at +55 hit) and Shadow destro came out on top in the warlock dps spreadsheet.

I agree you *want* to go higher in +hit, but even at lower levels of +hit, shadow destro will out dps affliction.
#6 May 09 2008 at 7:06 AM Rating: Decent
I only have +60 hit and Prince resists me quite a lot. That's as Demo. Everything I've read suggests maxing out +hit first, then stacking +dam

Yet for some reason, FreeTrial suggests 76+ hit will do for Aff!?

I need an explanation!
#7 May 09 2008 at 7:24 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Yet for some reason, FreeTrial suggests 76+ hit will do for Aff!?

I need an explanation!


The talent 'supression' keeps your DoTs from being resisted.
#8 May 09 2008 at 7:33 AM Rating: Decent
Yeah, sure, but I had read that more than 2 points is a waste - and even then, being hit capped is better because you have two spare points to use in better places.

Goddam - before I respec I'm going back to the research books.
#9 May 09 2008 at 8:54 AM Rating: Good
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More than 2 points is only a waste if the other spells/talents you get mitigate that +% hit. Use the warlock dps spreadsheet to test out your specs before you pay gold.
#10 May 09 2008 at 12:14 PM Rating: Good
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As I understand it, and I could be deluded here, the 2 points in suppression is to maximize hit on equal-level mobs (mobs the same level as the caster). This obviously doesn't work as well on bosses who are generally calculated as level 73 elites.

The idea of raising your +hit to the cap is to then move those two talent points to something more useful in raiding (melee loves imp. imp, for example).

The current spell +hit cap is 202. The hit and crit ratings are most important in Destro builds, the hit and +damage ratings are more important to Affliction.

Also, every analysis I've seen puts heavy affliction (deep UA) builds well ahead of destro up to t5 gear. After 2/5 t5 gear this changes to sac/destro or deep destro being more effective dps output.

But in the end, play what you enjoy. I've spec'd both while leveling, seen both in raids and really dig each for different reasons. If your raid is cool with pre-t4 destro build, then sac the succy and get ready to spam spam spam shadow bolts! ;)

Oh, and for the PvP gear: Every single raiding lock I've talked to suggested no more than the spellblade/offhand (or staff) and maybe the robes. You can get by with PvP gear, but it's not ideal for raiding. Even just Kara.
#11 May 09 2008 at 12:43 PM Rating: Decent
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With 20% unbuffed crit 180 spell hit is fine as the higher # of crits should offset the minimal resists, of course the target is 202 spell hit but if you need to trade crit for hit then I'd advise against it and just aim to replace spell dmg only gear or lower spell hit gear with the better pieces.
#12 May 09 2008 at 1:31 PM Rating: Decent
I get all the mechanics. It's just this respec - and the required hit for each. Bugger it - I'm chasing more +hit and respeccing to affliction in the next couple of days.
#13 May 09 2008 at 4:48 PM Rating: Decent
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All the analsys may say one thing, but that all assumes youre perfect about keeping up all your dots.

I switched to destro at ~140 hit, 1050 spell dmg, and 15% crit and saw ~200dps increase from 700 to 900ish. I did have to use more pots though, but with my void sacced I was able to keep up mana pretty well.

#14 May 12 2008 at 3:09 AM Rating: Good
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MrDallas wrote:
but with my void sacced


You didn't sac your succubus?

o.O

1 HoT, 2 FoL, or being hit twice with part of a Chain Heal will get more health back than 30% of your max health every minute. If you ask your healer nicely, I'm sure they can spare a couple seconds every minute to give you basicly an extra 15% DPS.
#15 May 12 2008 at 4:19 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
All the analsys may say one thing, but that all assumes youre perfect about keeping up all your dots.

I switched to destro at ~140 hit, 1050 spell dmg, and 15% crit and saw ~200dps increase from 700 to 900ish.


I also went destro at 145 spell hit and 15% crit, 1030 damage and saw around 100dps increase. Use the warlock spreadsheet to determine if you would do better as destro. The numbers I see around here (you need to be hit capped... no, you don't. You need 20% crit, no, you don't) are too large. You do not need to be hit capped or have your crit as high as 20%.

You want to sac the succy and do life taps (that either soul leach, FSW set bonus or a healer will help you out with). Healers in raids get that you will need heals if you give them a heads up and you'll be fine.
#16 May 12 2008 at 5:39 AM Rating: Decent
Thanks for the feedback. I hit 70, got some S1 pvp gear, and switched to Affliction.

I also had 2 friends bring me into a 3v3 team, and I realized that my keyboard dexterity / ability to execute quickly (especially when turning or close range) needs more attention than my gear.

I know this isn't the forum for it, but I somehow need to work on maneuverability-execution, if that makes sense. Things I had taken for granted while soloing to 70, and nuking in AV from a distance.

I'm a late-blooming nerd and not a PC proficient person, so I'm struggling to get where I need to be in order to perform better.

Theory I get, practice is harder.

#17 May 12 2008 at 5:59 AM Rating: Decent
Hot key your most used spells in a 3/3 or 4/4 layout on your keyboard. Like this for example on your keyboard:

1 COA 2 Cor 3 Imm

q SB w COS e Fear

And use your mouse to move. That takes practice.

I am FAR from perfect and haven't hotkeyed my spells yet either due to pure laziness. In raids, don't matter - in PvP will matter a LOT.
#18 May 12 2008 at 6:23 AM Rating: Good
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for keybindings... read this. It is written for rogues, but you could insert lock spells you use all the time (e.g. iHoT) to reduce your reaction time.
#19 May 12 2008 at 6:58 AM Rating: Decent
Thanks again.

Looks like I need to take the WASD movement out with the interface, and change AD to strafing, forcing myself to get used to mouse-movement. This will be awkward and unproductive at first, but I assume I'll settle into a rhythm.

As far as the hotkey layout goes, I assume I will set it up for PVP. When I'm doing PVE I will have SoC and UA as my first casts, because I can assume safe distance and setup. But when in an arena or getting ganked, turning, moving - I'll have to prioritize instant-aff first (which I can cast while moving).

Does anyone else run into that dilemma? If I'm in AV keeping my distance from a horde of well, um, horde...I can plant 5-6 Seeds of Corruption and watch the domino damage while also landing UA. Then I can insta-dot. Should I get used to insta-dotting first ALL THE TIME?

I'll reserve the click-abilities for non-combat situations (fel armor, mount, etc).



#20 May 12 2008 at 7:08 AM Rating: Decent
I never considered the mouse wheel.

Guess what I'm doing tonight. Sigh.

Sometimes this game is just work.
#21 May 12 2008 at 11:28 AM Rating: Decent
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I've got a 5-button mouse which I use a LOT. I've had it for 2-3 years now and it's not let me down once, despite being a crappy, wired Microsoft piece of faeces. I find binding either your most-used spells or the ones you need to get off quickest to your mouse buttons is the best approach. While I play with the numpad and mouse (don't even ask, I've been used to it since 40 and see no reason to change) binding your DoTs or nukes to your mouse is a really good idea in raids, makes it so much easier for me at least.
#22 May 12 2008 at 3:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Inoperante wrote:
q SB w COS e Fear

And use your mouse to move. That takes practice.


I'd advise against it. Relying so much on autorun for free look isn't optimal. Besides, with Shift, Ctrl and Alt on the keyboard, there's no reason to dump two vital movement keys for those easy-to-reach keys.

You can probably reach 4 or 5 on the keyboard without many issues, right? That's twelve or fifteen different combinations right there. Add Q, E, R, T, F, V, C, X, Z and Ctrl, Shift, Alt for each of them.

Unless you're suffering from arthritis, hitting those combinations shouldn't be a problem. Not that you need that many keybindings, though. I don't and I only have two offensive spells unbound. Rain of Fire and Incinerate. I don't use them much as a SL/SL lock.

Edited, May 13th 2008 1:37am by Mazra
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#23 May 12 2008 at 5:12 PM Rating: Good
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All the analsys may say one thing, but that all assumes youre perfect about keeping up all your dots.

Most people assume the same when quess-timating a builds' performance. I'd rather have logical proof myself.

The spreadsheets and analysis is only there to show efficient talent/gear combinations. How to set up the toon for what you want to do. Quantifying potential helps immensely in preparation. The rest is up to the player.

Player skill > everything.
#24 May 13 2008 at 4:44 AM Rating: Decent
After trying to move with only my mouse last night, I'm agreeing with Mazra.

WASD seems to work ok UNTIL my hand leaves that spot to hit numbers 6 7 8 9 0, then I have to react while resetting my movement hand.

Inconsistency has been the bane of my typing prowess, and with this too. Sometimes I'll hit "6" (Fear) with my left hand, sometimes I'll be turning and use my right hand, it makes for a lovely mess.

Tonight I'll try to localize my bindings to letters around WASD as suggested, but I need to pick something and stick with it and get those neural pathways hard-wired.

5 years of FFXI totally gimped me (number pad movement).

#25 May 13 2008 at 6:52 AM Rating: Decent
Mazra wrote:
Inoperante wrote:
q SB w COS e Fear

And use your mouse to move. That takes practice.


I'd advise against it. Relying so much on autorun for free look isn't optimal. Besides, with Shift, Ctrl and Alt on the keyboard, there's no reason to dump two vital movement keys for those easy-to-reach keys.

You can probably reach 4 or 5 on the keyboard without many issues, right? That's twelve or fifteen different combinations right there. Add Q, E, R, T, F, V, C, X, Z and Ctrl, Shift, Alt for each of them.

Unless you're suffering from arthritis, hitting those combinations shouldn't be a problem. Not that you need that many keybindings, though. I don't and I only have two offensive spells unbound. Rain of Fire and Incinerate. I don't use them much as a SL/SL lock.

Edited, May 13th 2008 1:37am by Mazra


Poor choice of keys, Maz, meant purely as an example. But if you can move with mouse and cast with keys (while retaining the key=movement option in a handly place) then you're golden. Of course, keeping WASD and using modifiers on the surrounding keys is another option.

Personal preference and ability counts!

By the way - key binding with Bartender I have found to be a *****. I have lost interest again...

Anyone got any tips on this?
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