Hi,
Regarding armor penetration, most specifically http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=34887;source=live ,
How come people say that it is such a big upgrade from the http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=33919;source=live or the veteran's one and just a bigger upgrade than what most people have, i would really like to know why people say it is better, as from my eye it would seem the vindicator /veteran rings are better? I would assume because of the Armor Penetration but any input is nice :)
Speed
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Is Armor Penetration really that good?Follow
Other than the fact that it has way more AP, yes, armor penetration is incredibly good.
In fact, one of my guildmates thought that my armory was glitched out when he checked after I logged from raiding, seeing only 175 hit and that I was putting up 1400-1500 DPS.
It's because I have ~1000-ish armor pen passive.
Basically, unless the boss has over ~5100 armor, bosses act like they have 0 armor to me.
Of course all T6 bosses have 6200 or 7685 armor, so...
The other reason is that Angelista's Revenge is the same item level as the S4 ring, but doesn't waste as many itemization point on resilience and stam.
In fact, one of my guildmates thought that my armory was glitched out when he checked after I logged from raiding, seeing only 175 hit and that I was putting up 1400-1500 DPS.
It's because I have ~1000-ish armor pen passive.
Basically, unless the boss has over ~5100 armor, bosses act like they have 0 armor to me.
Of course all T6 bosses have 6200 or 7685 armor, so...
The other reason is that Angelista's Revenge is the same item level as the S4 ring, but doesn't waste as many itemization point on resilience and stam.
Now which would be better for a SHS arena rogue?
Armor pen. What do rogues specialize in killing? Anything under 5k armor. What helps you kill them faster? Armor pen.
You should be using both in arena.
S3 ring + Angelista's Revenge.
S3 ring + Angelista's Revenge.
Cool, thanks for the replies guys :)
Scholar
17 posts
I'm 20/0/41 spec and trying to get most Armor Penetration as possible. I got this sword last night:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34609
I know this sword is a OH weapon but I was wondering if I can use this on MH as well if I'm ShS spec and not Combat Sword spec. Does rogue's dps gets nerfed by using fast weapon on MH besides poison proc?
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34609
I know this sword is a OH weapon but I was wondering if I can use this on MH as well if I'm ShS spec and not Combat Sword spec. Does rogue's dps gets nerfed by using fast weapon on MH besides poison proc?
Gunorc wrote:
I'm 20/0/41 spec and trying to get most Armor Penetration as possible. I got this sword last night:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34609
I know this sword is a OH weapon but I was wondering if I can use this on MH as well if I'm ShS spec and not Combat Sword spec. Does rogue's dps gets nerfed by using fast weapon on MH besides poison proc?
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34609
I know this sword is a OH weapon but I was wondering if I can use this on MH as well if I'm ShS spec and not Combat Sword spec. Does rogue's dps gets nerfed by using fast weapon on MH besides poison proc?
Yeah. That's not a good MH at all.
Especially for PvP.
Scholar
17 posts
Cool, thanks for the input.
Gunorc wrote:
Does rogue's dps gets nerfed by using fast weapon on MH besides poison proc?
Yes. You main attack is Hemo, which is a normalised attack. Meaning the speed of the weapon is not taken into consideration, the attack just applies the damgage of the sword. So if you have a fast sword like this, the range will be low (much lower than an equivalent weapon with same dps but slower).
You do need a 2.6 speed weapon for your mainhand.
But this sword you have here is a nice OH.
nostra
Banatu wrote:
Armor pen. What do rogues specialize in killing? Anything under 5k armor. What helps you kill them faster? Armor pen.
It's been mathematically proven that armor penetration works against plate classes just as well as cloth classes in terms of reducing survivability. Besides, rogues kill clothies fast enough as it is.
To preemptively answer your questions: No.
Jophiel wrote:
I managed to be both retarded and entertaining.
Demea wrote:
Banatu wrote:
Armor pen. What do rogues specialize in killing? Anything under 5k armor. What helps you kill them faster? Armor pen.
It's been mathematically proven that armor penetration works against plate classes just as well as cloth classes in terms of reducing survivability. Besides, rogues kill clothies fast enough as it is.
To preemptively answer your questions: No.
You're wrong, actually.
Bleeds are boosted by AP - you use bleeds on higha rmour taregets but not clothies. This alone make ArP better against clothies. However, the fun doesn't stop there!
Armour Pen is only as useful vs plate wearers (compared to clothies) if there is no healing taking place. This is because armour scales in a linear way with absolute time to live, but not with the amount of healing needed to keep someone alive.
Edited, May 10th 2008 12:02am by Kavekk
Armor Pen reduces Time To Live by the same amount no matter how much armor your target has, assuming your target has enough armor for all of your armor pen to take effect.
Either RP or Nooble did a massive calculation on this a while back, but I can't find it without premium search feature.
Either RP or Nooble did a massive calculation on this a while back, but I can't find it without premium search feature.
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Armor Pen reduces Time To Live by the same amount no matter how much armor your target has, assuming your target has enough armor for all of your armor pen to take effect.
Either RP or Nooble did a massive calculation on this a while back, but I can't find it without premium search feature.
Either RP or Nooble did a massive calculation on this a while back, but I can't find it without premium search feature.
You're about 30 steps behind.
www.wowwiki.com/armor
If you meant to refute my post then lol. If not... well, ok? We've already gone over that.
Kavekk wrote:
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Armor Pen reduces Time To Live by the same amount no matter how much armor your target has, assuming your target has enough armor for all of your armor pen to take effect.
Either RP or Nooble did a massive calculation on this a while back, but I can't find it without premium search feature.
Either RP or Nooble did a massive calculation on this a while back, but I can't find it without premium search feature.
You're about 30 steps behind.
www.wowwiki.com/armor
If you meant to refute my post then lol. If not... well, ok? We've already gone over that.
I'm not quite sure how you think my post did or did not refute your post. You said that armor pen is only useful vs plate wearers compared to clothis when there is no healing taking place.
What you either fail to realize or are completely ignoring is that in full arena gear (assuming same season), warriors and paladins aren't that far ahead of any other class in terms of total HP.
If there is a healer there, the healer will be healing for similar percentages of the persons life whether it is a warrior, warlock, rogue, mage, or whatever.
Based on this, armor pen reduces Time To Live by the same amount no matter how much armor your target has (which you already agreed with) and the healing from the healer would increase their Time To Live by about the same amount, based on small variations in total HP.
Looking at that, armor pen is just as effective vs a plate wearer as it is vs a mail wearer, leather wearer, or cloth wearer.
Granted, the absolute Time To Live is calculated as a percent, but you would still shave off 10% (made up number just for comparison's sake) of a warriors Time To Live, just like you would for a mage, rogue, or shaman.
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Kavekk wrote:
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Armor Pen reduces Time To Live by the same amount no matter how much armor your target has, assuming your target has enough armor for all of your armor pen to take effect.
Either RP or Nooble did a massive calculation on this a while back, but I can't find it without premium search feature.
Either RP or Nooble did a massive calculation on this a while back, but I can't find it without premium search feature.
You're about 30 steps behind.
www.wowwiki.com/armor
If you meant to refute my post then lol. If not... well, ok? We've already gone over that.
I'm not quite sure how you think my post did or did not refute your post. You said that armor pen is only useful vs plate wearers compared to clothis when there is no healing taking place.
What you either fail to realize or are completely ignoring is that in full arena gear (assuming same season), warriors and paladins aren't that far ahead of any other class in terms of total HP.
If there is a healer there, the healer will be healing for similar percentages of the persons life whether it is a warrior, warlock, rogue, mage, or whatever.
Based on this, armor pen reduces Time To Live by the same amount no matter how much armor your target has (which you already agreed with) and the healing from the healer would increase their Time To Live by about the same amount, based on small variations in total HP.
Looking at that, armor pen is just as effective vs a plate wearer as it is vs a mail wearer, leather wearer, or cloth wearer.
Granted, the absolute Time To Live is calculated as a percent, but you would still shave off 10% (made up number just for comparison's sake) of a warriors Time To Live, just like you would for a mage, rogue, or shaman.
...
Read the page again and again until you understand, then come back and tell me I'm right. Then we can put this behind us.
Apart fromt eh fact you're wrong, you go from "about the same amount" to "just as effective". Anywya, you're wrong.
...
I can tell you're not going to believe me. OK, here goes:
Effective time to live = 1/(1-DR%) * Base time to live
Ok, the reason armour scales in a linear fashion with time to live is that higher armoured targets have a longer time to live, thus their armour is reducing damage for a longer period of time despite the DR on mitigation given by armour.
On the other hand, with a healer, the amount of healing needed to keep a target alive does not scale in a linear fashion - it follows the mitigation graph. thus, the more armour the target has the less effective armour pen is on it.
FURTHERMORE, you can bypass the higer armour of the plate class entirely by bleeds. This is normally the better choice unless the target is taking a beating from two or three melee.
Kavekk is right, guys.
Armor penetration is much less effective versus plate targets.
Armor penetration is much less effective versus plate targets.
Yeah, my bad.
Dealing with % of time on absolute TTL where as healing rec'd is static no matter how much HP you have.
Edit: Wasn't not understanding the way armor works, was just having a brain fart on the healing side of it.
Edited, May 11th 2008 3:24pm by Bigdaddyjug
Dealing with % of time on absolute TTL where as healing rec'd is static no matter how much HP you have.
Edit: Wasn't not understanding the way armor works, was just having a brain fart on the healing side of it.
Edited, May 11th 2008 3:24pm by Bigdaddyjug
It's also why EA is way better on a clothie than on your average plate-goer, if I'm not mistaken.
Edited, May 12th 2008 1:13pm by Norellicus
Edited, May 12th 2008 1:13pm by Norellicus
Norellicus wrote:
It's also why EA is way better on a clothie than on your average plate-goer, if I'm not mistaken.
Edited, May 12th 2008 1:13pm by Norellicus
Edited, May 12th 2008 1:13pm by Norellicus
Yes.
EA on non-plate.
Rip on everyone else.
Shamans w/ shields basically count as plate.
Jordster the Quick wrote:
Norellicus wrote:
It's also why EA is way better on a clothie than on your average plate-goer, if I'm not mistaken.
Edited, May 12th 2008 1:13pm by Norellicus
Edited, May 12th 2008 1:13pm by Norellicus
Yes.
EA on non-plate.
Rupture on everyone else.
Shamans w/ shields basically count as plate.
Fixed for ya ;)
Figure everybody knows what you meant, but just clarifying for those who may not and might get confused between Rogue and Druid. :p
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