Hi, I need professional help :P
I haven't played Wow for very long so my main is a lvl 42 BM hunter, but I figured I would experience much more of WoW if I just tried other classes too. I made a druid, but it was so lame he became a bank alt at lvl 14. I had already tried warlock but gave that up too. I like the BM hunter because I can handle a lot by myself and I prefer playing solo.
Now I'm working on a lvl 17 rogue, since rogues looks like a rather good soloing class, on paper at least. And it IS much more in my taste, but one thing is making me extremely fffrrrustrated - mobs running away and returning with adds! (As you probably know, with a pet and a bow nothing can run very far from you...)
But my lvl 17 rogue just died 4 times during the lvl 14(!)Samophlange quest, because of little green men ganging up on me. And i'm thinking, omg is this how it's gonna be?
So my question is: am I just not using my rogue skills correctly and should read up on things? Or will it get better soon when I lvl up? Or am I just not the right person to play rogue and should go back to my hunters?
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It will get a little easier at 20 when you get crippling poison, maybe others can give more good tips.
i found rogue a little slow to start. not as slow as lock, but it was still somewhat frustrating at first. the miss rate was kinda nuts when i first got dual wield.
anyways, at lv 20, poisons helps a TON. i also didnt use swords yet.
i switched to swords at 27, best idea ever.
also, when you hit 30, respec down the combat tree if you arent in it already. the talents there will do amazing things for your DPS and survivability. rogue gets better and better as you level, which is ultimately what made it my main.
anyways for your level, if theres a lot of mobs near each other, use a ranged weapon to pull. stand back. you dont want to rush in because if you get any links your screwed.
when you get vanish, those multi-pulls arent a problem because if you make a mistake you can vanish and run to reset the battle and heal up.
when you get distract, landing saps and opening with ambush is so much easier. until 30 i reccomend opening with ambush then switching to dual swords for the fight.
dont worry it does get better.
anyways, at lv 20, poisons helps a TON. i also didnt use swords yet.
i switched to swords at 27, best idea ever.
also, when you hit 30, respec down the combat tree if you arent in it already. the talents there will do amazing things for your DPS and survivability. rogue gets better and better as you level, which is ultimately what made it my main.
anyways for your level, if theres a lot of mobs near each other, use a ranged weapon to pull. stand back. you dont want to rush in because if you get any links your screwed.
when you get vanish, those multi-pulls arent a problem because if you make a mistake you can vanish and run to reset the battle and heal up.
when you get distract, landing saps and opening with ambush is so much easier. until 30 i reccomend opening with ambush then switching to dual swords for the fight.
dont worry it does get better.
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i found rogue a little slow to start. not as slow as lock, but it was still somewhat frustrating at first.
How is a lock slow?
Immolate + Dot Target + Fear
Immolate + DoT 2nd Target + Fear
Throw a shadow bolt at first target as it come back, it'll most likely die from the dots.
Immolate + DoT 3rd Target.
Throw a shadow bolt at first target as it come back, it'll most likely die from the dots.
Rince and repeat. I swear Warlock are totally disgusting in pve :P. Just gotta know how to twist fear. And heck, before you learn fear, the newbie mobs are so easy you can kill them just by dotting a few and letting them beat on you.
But back on topic - Use sword, despite all the daggers blizzard is throwing at you. Crippling poison is a boon once you reach level 20, so only a few more level to go.
i was kind of talking about levels before 20 on lock.
void walker tends to not hold threat very well, he also dies fast in my experience.
also, you cant just fear and dot a lot of things. if fear breaks early you get screwed. and in a lot of areas mobs will link.
although i didnt play lock a lot and im sure it becomes viable later on.
void walker tends to not hold threat very well, he also dies fast in my experience.
also, you cant just fear and dot a lot of things. if fear breaks early you get screwed. and in a lot of areas mobs will link.
although i didnt play lock a lot and im sure it becomes viable later on.
I never got a lock past level 25, so I'm also talking about those levels.
Once you get to VW, it's even easier. Put him on a target and DoT said target. Then fear a 2nd one and dot it up. The VW will kill the mob with your dots on it.
Throw in life tap, drain life, health funnel, and you can juggle 2 mobs non-stop. It's crazy effective.
http://media.putfile.com/lock-grinding
Check it out. This is a higher level lock, but aside from having Siphon Life, none of what he does is impossible for a level 14 lock... I know, I did it on my orc locks.
Once you get to VW, it's even easier. Put him on a target and DoT said target. Then fear a 2nd one and dot it up. The VW will kill the mob with your dots on it.
Throw in life tap, drain life, health funnel, and you can juggle 2 mobs non-stop. It's crazy effective.
http://media.putfile.com/lock-grinding
Check it out. This is a higher level lock, but aside from having Siphon Life, none of what he does is impossible for a level 14 lock... I know, I did it on my orc locks.
I actually find Rogue to be an amazingly forgiving and easy class to play leveling wise. Not quite as easy as Hunter or lock, but what is?
At low levels I guess you lack real escape abilities - but low levels are easy, as long as you keep to same level mobs.
At low levels I guess you lack real escape abilities - but low levels are easy, as long as you keep to same level mobs.
7 posts
Thanks for the encouragement!
Lvl 20 is not far away, I'll hang in there. And I will probably just stay away from overly frustrating situations meanwhile (like anything with murlocks, they make even my hunters cry sometimes).
Poison, swords, respec at 30. Okidoki. And vanish sounds like a lifesaver...
Oh and too right about the miss rate with dual wield. But since I'm used to hunter melee it didn't seem so bad until you mentioned it :P When the rogue DO hit it's awesome.
And to the further discussion: the problem I have with locks and druids is, I don't like SPELLCASTING. It's just too many buttons to press in the right order. And no I don't want to use macros either, it's too artificial. I want the feel of combat while being in control, which is why range+pet is just perfect.
While I'm thinking "Oh dear! What am I gonna dooo" the hunter is autoshooting and the pet is attacking. Just a few clicks even if I'm completely unprepaired.
I might get better at this eventually... but until then the button-clicking has to be fairly easy. I want to see what is happening, not search for keys or icons or watch cooldowns.
So it's nothing wrong with the classes, it's just me being slow.
Thanks again :)
Lvl 20 is not far away, I'll hang in there. And I will probably just stay away from overly frustrating situations meanwhile (like anything with murlocks, they make even my hunters cry sometimes).
Poison, swords, respec at 30. Okidoki. And vanish sounds like a lifesaver...
Oh and too right about the miss rate with dual wield. But since I'm used to hunter melee it didn't seem so bad until you mentioned it :P When the rogue DO hit it's awesome.
And to the further discussion: the problem I have with locks and druids is, I don't like SPELLCASTING. It's just too many buttons to press in the right order. And no I don't want to use macros either, it's too artificial. I want the feel of combat while being in control, which is why range+pet is just perfect.
While I'm thinking "Oh dear! What am I gonna dooo" the hunter is autoshooting and the pet is attacking. Just a few clicks even if I'm completely unprepaired.
I might get better at this eventually... but until then the button-clicking has to be fairly easy. I want to see what is happening, not search for keys or icons or watch cooldowns.
So it's nothing wrong with the classes, it's just me being slow.
Thanks again :)
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I made a druid, but it was so lame he became a bank alt at lvl 14
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But my lvl 17 rogue just died 4 times during the lvl 14(!)Samophlange quest, because of little green men ganging up on me.
I have one of each class between levels 45-70. I have my favorites of course...but I gave each class a chance. I can tell you that some of the classes and specs do not start to shine until the 40's. Playing a class to levels 14 or 17 will not give you a very good impression of that class. Invest a little more time in a class before you write it off.
Vanish has saved my rogue more times than I can count. I feel it's even more effective than Feign Death. Mainly because if you are to close you can sneak out.
Great things to come, keep at it!
Or go level your hunter some more ;)
Also, Tyr, That's a great video!!! I wasn't very motivated with my lock, but that looked like a ton of fun.
Edited, May 7th 2008 1:38pm by Ebonspine
Great things to come, keep at it!
Or go level your hunter some more ;)
Also, Tyr, That's a great video!!! I wasn't very motivated with my lock, but that looked like a ton of fun.
Edited, May 7th 2008 1:38pm by Ebonspine
1.) With a rogue, getting into higher levels, clicking will slow you down. If you haven't already, bind your keys now, you'll thank yourself 20 lvls from now.
2.) ^^ With the single pulls - you'll get the hang of it. Sometimes you have to get to a safe area in stealth, then range pull the ones that aren't linked.
3.) Rogues can be surprisingly survivable, once you get the tools. And if you go into the combat tree at 30 with swords, and pick up bladefurry (don't know lvl req on that), you can watch mobs melt around you.
Stick with it!
2.) ^^ With the single pulls - you'll get the hang of it. Sometimes you have to get to a safe area in stealth, then range pull the ones that aren't linked.
3.) Rogues can be surprisingly survivable, once you get the tools. And if you go into the combat tree at 30 with swords, and pick up bladefurry (don't know lvl req on that), you can watch mobs melt around you.
Stick with it!
Another thing nobody has mentioned is, that quest is just a huge pain in the ***.
It almost made me quit WoW doing it on my first char, which I believe was a shaman.
You just need to be careful when doing that quest, and just ask for help if you are struggling with it.
The only other areas I can think of in the Barrens where you might have rtrouble are with the harpies in the NW corner and with the dwarves at Bael Modan (or whatever it's called) in the SE.
It almost made me quit WoW doing it on my first char, which I believe was a shaman.
You just need to be careful when doing that quest, and just ask for help if you are struggling with it.
The only other areas I can think of in the Barrens where you might have rtrouble are with the harpies in the NW corner and with the dwarves at Bael Modan (or whatever it's called) in the SE.
I had a very similar experience-- my rogue was my first serious character, and I think that people forget how different playing a rogue is when you don't have vanish or poisons or anything like blade flurry, etc.
And Bigdaddyjug is absolutely right-- this quest line is a major pain! But it's also an opportunity, like learning to speak with a marble in your mouth (or whatever the expression is), to get more familiar with game mechanics and some of your core combat skills before you start getting the fancier abilities. Trying to complete these quests taught me a lot about pulling, clearing out mobs, aggro radius, dumb luck and the limitations of my character. Ultimately you need to be enjoying what you're doing, but if you have the time/patience you can really experiment with pulls (sap one goblin, pull the one next to him and see who else comes along), and also with your combat cycle-- you might be able to time your gouge right before the mob runs, giving you a little time to regain energy and unload!
On the other hand, the run from the barrens graveyard to the sludge fen is so irritating that you might decide to skip it and come back in 10 levels :-) But I'd stick with the character-- I barely know what I'm doing at 70 and knew a lot less when I was leveling, but found a rogue to be really easy to solo after level 20...
Good luck!
And Bigdaddyjug is absolutely right-- this quest line is a major pain! But it's also an opportunity, like learning to speak with a marble in your mouth (or whatever the expression is), to get more familiar with game mechanics and some of your core combat skills before you start getting the fancier abilities. Trying to complete these quests taught me a lot about pulling, clearing out mobs, aggro radius, dumb luck and the limitations of my character. Ultimately you need to be enjoying what you're doing, but if you have the time/patience you can really experiment with pulls (sap one goblin, pull the one next to him and see who else comes along), and also with your combat cycle-- you might be able to time your gouge right before the mob runs, giving you a little time to regain energy and unload!
On the other hand, the run from the barrens graveyard to the sludge fen is so irritating that you might decide to skip it and come back in 10 levels :-) But I'd stick with the character-- I barely know what I'm doing at 70 and knew a lot less when I was leveling, but found a rogue to be really easy to solo after level 20...
Good luck!
7 posts
Hey!
I didn't notice a bunch of ppl had taken the time to answer my thread after the first short discussion. But I've read the comments now and you're all completely right. It gets better!
ThomasMagnum, yes I have bound some keys, there's no way I could find the right icon to click on in time :P With clicking I didn't mean the mouse, I meant keys (I'm female and swedish and don't always make sense).
Paladense - yes I know I gave up too early... I will give the poor druid another chance once I get better at just handling things. I can imagine druids over lvl 20 are awesome, but they're so extremely versatile it makes them hard to play well! But I'll get on it, soonish.
guardenome - I'm totally with you. It has to be fun or don't do it. Well unless there's a reeeeally important chain of quests to follow. I didn't give up and I finished that quest. But I put off the rest of the quests in north Barrens till I could do it without risk of dying - as you said the graveyard is just too far away. It takes the fun out of it.
A report on my progress:
It seems that the Venture Co quest I moaned about originally really is one of the worst, simply because the feckin mobs run away with just a little less than 1/2 health! And comes back with 2-3 friends.
Like Bigdaddyjug said - the harpies in NW Barrens might be a problem for a low rogue too - so I actually ditched Barrens and traveled to Ghostlands. It has a bunch of 10-20 quests that are rather easy (if you don't do them when they just turned yellow perhaps). So I've basically been cherrypicking quests in Barrens and Ghostlands, to make sure I don't get bored or frustrated again.
My rogue is now lvl 21 and is having the time of his life. Something happened around lvl 19-20 - and I haven't visited the rogue trainer yet so it's not because of poisoning. It's probably the combined effect of a) buying some green armor with agility & stamina boosts, b) more talents following the good advice of Nooblestick and others on this rogue forum, and c) me learning to think like a rogue.
I couldn't find any good swords for a reasonable price, so I used a slow dagger and a sword. (Took me a while to realise WHY slow weapons are good - they don't use up the energy so fast, duh.) But the latest quests have awarded me some rather nice swords so from now on I'm gonna use them. They're both 10.0 dps and speed is 2.90 and 2.60. I'm keeping the best dagger in inventory in case I feel like ambushing someone :D I assume I won't need the dagger at all when I get better talents since the higher lvl rogues use 2 swords. (Well most of them, I've read the debates, but I'm all for brute force.)
I am slowly learning how to solve situations as a rogue, not a hunter. Just the fact that I am taking the beating and not the cat, took a while to get used to :P. (HELP I'm bleeeeeding!!!) At first I sorely missed the tracking ability, but soon realised the hunter needs that ability, the rogue doesn't. It's not a problem with mobs sneaking up on me because I can rip them apart.
And quests I remember my hunters having trouble with - like finding certain objects in mob-tight camps - is a piece of cake with the rogue. The hunter had to kill everything in his way to get through a camp and perhaps find nothing, but as a rogue I can just stealth and take a walk in the camp till I find the object. The hunter tracking is a definite advantage when you're looking for named mobs though, you can spot them from far away. But all in all it evens out in the end.
Now I'm lvl 21 and gonna see the rogue trainer about poisoning, then going to Barrens to finish the green quests before heading to Stonetalon. I will probably be lvl 22 by then so the harpy-quests in Charred Valley should be easy. And if not - at least the graveyard is very close!
Btw, my nooby horde rogue is named Trai - if you see him give him a pat on the head.
My main is Tankred, lvl 42 blood elf hunter. I also have an alliance hunter, the lvl 27 draenei Wei. The poor "bankdruid" is the lvl 14 tauren Kelimgar.
And yes they're all male, even though I'm female. But I don't like the looks of the female chars on WoW, and if I have to look at chars for hours and hours I prefer them to be male :P (And I find the male taurens cute, so there's probably something very very wrong with me.)
Trai is a bit shy but he thanks all of you.
I didn't notice a bunch of ppl had taken the time to answer my thread after the first short discussion. But I've read the comments now and you're all completely right. It gets better!
ThomasMagnum, yes I have bound some keys, there's no way I could find the right icon to click on in time :P With clicking I didn't mean the mouse, I meant keys (I'm female and swedish and don't always make sense).
Paladense - yes I know I gave up too early... I will give the poor druid another chance once I get better at just handling things. I can imagine druids over lvl 20 are awesome, but they're so extremely versatile it makes them hard to play well! But I'll get on it, soonish.
guardenome - I'm totally with you. It has to be fun or don't do it. Well unless there's a reeeeally important chain of quests to follow. I didn't give up and I finished that quest. But I put off the rest of the quests in north Barrens till I could do it without risk of dying - as you said the graveyard is just too far away. It takes the fun out of it.
A report on my progress:
It seems that the Venture Co quest I moaned about originally really is one of the worst, simply because the feckin mobs run away with just a little less than 1/2 health! And comes back with 2-3 friends.
Like Bigdaddyjug said - the harpies in NW Barrens might be a problem for a low rogue too - so I actually ditched Barrens and traveled to Ghostlands. It has a bunch of 10-20 quests that are rather easy (if you don't do them when they just turned yellow perhaps). So I've basically been cherrypicking quests in Barrens and Ghostlands, to make sure I don't get bored or frustrated again.
My rogue is now lvl 21 and is having the time of his life. Something happened around lvl 19-20 - and I haven't visited the rogue trainer yet so it's not because of poisoning. It's probably the combined effect of a) buying some green armor with agility & stamina boosts, b) more talents following the good advice of Nooblestick and others on this rogue forum, and c) me learning to think like a rogue.
I couldn't find any good swords for a reasonable price, so I used a slow dagger and a sword. (Took me a while to realise WHY slow weapons are good - they don't use up the energy so fast, duh.) But the latest quests have awarded me some rather nice swords so from now on I'm gonna use them. They're both 10.0 dps and speed is 2.90 and 2.60. I'm keeping the best dagger in inventory in case I feel like ambushing someone :D I assume I won't need the dagger at all when I get better talents since the higher lvl rogues use 2 swords. (Well most of them, I've read the debates, but I'm all for brute force.)
I am slowly learning how to solve situations as a rogue, not a hunter. Just the fact that I am taking the beating and not the cat, took a while to get used to :P. (HELP I'm bleeeeeding!!!) At first I sorely missed the tracking ability, but soon realised the hunter needs that ability, the rogue doesn't. It's not a problem with mobs sneaking up on me because I can rip them apart.
And quests I remember my hunters having trouble with - like finding certain objects in mob-tight camps - is a piece of cake with the rogue. The hunter had to kill everything in his way to get through a camp and perhaps find nothing, but as a rogue I can just stealth and take a walk in the camp till I find the object. The hunter tracking is a definite advantage when you're looking for named mobs though, you can spot them from far away. But all in all it evens out in the end.
Now I'm lvl 21 and gonna see the rogue trainer about poisoning, then going to Barrens to finish the green quests before heading to Stonetalon. I will probably be lvl 22 by then so the harpy-quests in Charred Valley should be easy. And if not - at least the graveyard is very close!
Btw, my nooby horde rogue is named Trai - if you see him give him a pat on the head.
My main is Tankred, lvl 42 blood elf hunter. I also have an alliance hunter, the lvl 27 draenei Wei. The poor "bankdruid" is the lvl 14 tauren Kelimgar.
And yes they're all male, even though I'm female. But I don't like the looks of the female chars on WoW, and if I have to look at chars for hours and hours I prefer them to be male :P (And I find the male taurens cute, so there's probably something very very wrong with me.)
Trai is a bit shy but he thanks all of you.
43 posts
Just a heads up, you don't need a slow mainhand. You want whatever has the highest damage, not dps or speed. The "slow weapon" thing is because slower weapons generally hit harder. It also doesn't use up less energy, it just makes your instant strikes hit harder. If you have two 10 dps weapons, one at 2.00 speed (still too fast) and one at 1.00 speed, the 2.00 speed one will hit for 20 damage + sinister strike damage while the 1.00 speed weapon will only hit for 10 damage + sinister strike damage. This is the reason people have slow weapons in their mainhands.
The reason for a fast weapon in your offhand is simple: poison application. You generally will not need a dagger at higher levels because you learn cheap shot at (I believe) level 26. This ability stuns the target for four seconds and gives you two combo points.
Have fun on your rogue.
The reason for a fast weapon in your offhand is simple: poison application. You generally will not need a dagger at higher levels because you learn cheap shot at (I believe) level 26. This ability stuns the target for four seconds and gives you two combo points.
Have fun on your rogue.
For combat builds:
Main hand - Highest Average Damage weapon available.
As noted above: This is for instants which calculate their damage based on the damage of the main hand as well as for auto-attack which constitutes the largest pool of your total damage.
Off hand - Fastest speed weapon available.
Also as noted above: For poison procs. Later for Combat Potency and Sword spec procs.
If you're really gonna "go for it", I strongly suggest checking into the Elitist Jerks site, the stickies on this forum, and even some of the wowwiki stuff as a basis for understanding the mechanics of the class. Rogues are most fun to play, IMO, when you're not struggling to keep alive while questing. And with some basic know-how, that's not the biggest problem.
Biggest problem is what to do with all that loot.
Happy hunting.
Main hand - Highest Average Damage weapon available.
As noted above: This is for instants which calculate their damage based on the damage of the main hand as well as for auto-attack which constitutes the largest pool of your total damage.
Off hand - Fastest speed weapon available.
Also as noted above: For poison procs. Later for Combat Potency and Sword spec procs.
If you're really gonna "go for it", I strongly suggest checking into the Elitist Jerks site, the stickies on this forum, and even some of the wowwiki stuff as a basis for understanding the mechanics of the class. Rogues are most fun to play, IMO, when you're not struggling to keep alive while questing. And with some basic know-how, that's not the biggest problem.
Biggest problem is what to do with all that loot.
Happy hunting.
Quote:
ThomasMagnum, yes I have bound some keys, there's no way I could find the right icon to click on in time :P With clicking I didn't mean the mouse, I meant keys (I'm female and swedish and don't always make sense).
Quote:
(I'm female and swedish and don't always make sense)
Quote:
Age 45 male and balding
Fix't.
7 posts
Thanks beardownmanup, I deserved that. People were so nice and helpful that I got tempted to introduce myself a little. I forgot that internet is a hostile place, but you reminded me.
#19REDACTED,
Posted: May 10 2008 at 4:22 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Yeah, because an actual woman would totally be insistently advertising her gender to a community heavily populated by sex-deprived sociopaths. Sorry sweetheart, you're just not convincing.
7 posts
Hmmm, it doesn't seem to be much wrong with the community, since the only one that behaved like a tw*t is you. In 2 days. And all you've accomplished is killing a thread discussing a low lvl rogues problems. By insinuating that i'm lying about something that REALLY doesn't matter in an online game. Or shouldn't matter. Perhaps you can find a more suitable forum for your gender issues.
7 posts
Btw, 'insistently'? I said it once. I can't help that you read it over and over and over...
When I say I have problems learning keys and commands - especially in tight situations like fighting in Wow - that's not me pretending to be a stupid female. I have no problem telling ppl my weaknesses because I know what I am good at. I use my pc for work and games, many games. My IQ is +150, I'm 40 years old, and if you're acting your age I was programming before you were born, 'sweetheart'. I'm just not good at learning several fast key sequences - especially not when I'm often switching between them.
When I say I have problems learning keys and commands - especially in tight situations like fighting in Wow - that's not me pretending to be a stupid female. I have no problem telling ppl my weaknesses because I know what I am good at. I use my pc for work and games, many games. My IQ is +150, I'm 40 years old, and if you're acting your age I was programming before you were born, 'sweetheart'. I'm just not good at learning several fast key sequences - especially not when I'm often switching between them.
Tankrred, calm down, Beardown meant it as a joke.
Are you unfamiliar with the joking stereotype that there are no women who use the internet?
Are you unfamiliar with the joking stereotype that there are no women who use the internet?
On the contrary I think beardownmanup is a doochefag. You don't insult people and pass it off as ******* with them. Tankrred had some valid questions and you probably pushed her away from these forums for good. Taken from scrubs, doochefag here reminds us that people are generally bastards, ******* coated bastards with ******* filling.
thanks doochefag.
Ahh I'm just joking, its the internet.
thanks doochefag.
Ahh I'm just joking, its the internet.
beardownmanup wrote:
Yeah, because an actual woman would totally be insistently advertising her gender to a community heavily populated by sex-deprived sociopaths. Sorry sweetheart, you're just not convincing.
Sex-deprived sociopaths?
F*ck you.
Have to agree with tank on this one. Check your stereotypes at the door, thank you.
7 posts
I was a bit reluctant to read what had been said today - but there you nice ppl are again! I really would have left this forum if no one had spoken up against the tw*t. But now it's all good, so thank you! :)
Li'l rogue Trai is lvl 22 and happily slaying human scum in Tarren Mills - *garrotte* *miss* *swosh*. He barely touches them! I'm gonna enjoy this.
But be sure I'll shout again if (when) I run into problems.
Li'l rogue Trai is lvl 22 and happily slaying human scum in Tarren Mills - *garrotte* *miss* *swosh*. He barely touches them! I'm gonna enjoy this.
But be sure I'll shout again if (when) I run into problems.
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