Its more than that xsarus. So you've never turned on growl and sent your pet to save the healer? Nor called them back to your side when their health got low to let them heal up a bit? Never used intimidate?
Edited, May 8th 2008 12:45pm by ItsaGaAs
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ItsaGaAs wrote:
Its more than that xsarus. So you've never turned on growl and sent your pet to save the healer? Nor called them back to your side when their health got low to let them heal up a bit? Never used intimidate?
If my pet pulls aggro my pet is pretty much instantly dead, not to mention that growl isn't likely to pull off a healer anyway. Playing a hunter in a raid is extremely easy.
Don't get me wrong Itsa, I love my hunter, and hunters can do lots of complex things, such as trapping, which actually requires skill to maintain. But this is pretty much reserved for 5 mans and maybe kara.
Edited, May 8th 2008 3:02pm by Xsarus
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My point is that hunter's need to spend more effort pushing buttons to control their pets than a warlock or mage. It makes it more fun but it also increases the opportunity for errors, which seem to be more visible and sharply criticized by other classes than errors by other classes.
Quote:
My point is that hunter's need to spend more effort pushing buttons to control their pets than a warlock or mage.
Sorry but that's rubbish. I play both Warlock and Hunter and the "difficulty" is equal. Essentially the only challenge is keeping the pet alive which involves calling the pet back in exactly the same way to avoid AoE or to heal, regardless of if it's an animal or a demon.
If anything the lack of Mend Pet for Warlocks (Health Funnel is a complete waste of potential DPS for anything other than a Demonology lock) means that they have to be even more on the ball when it comes to yanking them out.
Warlock pets also have more utility. My Hunter's pet can deal damage and (sometimes) hold aggro for me when soloing, but as a Warlock, I can use my pet as DPS or as a viable means of CC. Or even as a passive mana battery which admittedly involves no pet management whatsoever. But having to keep one target Seduced while you're concentrating your DPS on something else, and perhaps using your own CC on something else again requires more in the way of pet management than anything a Hunter needs to do.
I'm not saying Hunters are easier to play than Warlocks in general. In fact neither of them are terribly taxing, but to say the Hunter has more work to do petwise is just incorrect.
Xsarus is right too, a pet won't save a healer in a raid situation with growl. This is a trick that stops working shortly after SM. However a Warlock can still use his pet to save a healer with Seduce (that is presuming the pet is a Succubus and the mob is humanoid, but it's still more likely than a Hunter pet grabbing aggro off a raid mob)
The challenging parts of playing Hunter is through proper trapping, kiting and the use of misdirect, and sadly these skills dont come up in raids nearly often enough.
Edited, May 8th 2008 5:47pm by Rasen
Nevermind
Edited, May 8th 2008 4:55pm by ItsaGaAs
Edited, May 8th 2008 4:55pm by ItsaGaAs
Whats that, a warlock pet?
You mean those dead female demons warlocks leave behind?
Edited, May 9th 2008 1:55am by Aethien
You mean those dead female demons warlocks leave behind?
Edited, May 9th 2008 1:55am by Aethien
Rasen wrote:
Xsarus is right too, a pet won't save a healer in a raid situation with growl. This is a trick that stops working shortly after SM.
I assume by SM you mean non-heroic 70 instances. Because my pet could easily intimidate+growl off of any healer at that point, and by the time the tank would get around to picking the mob up there was no way it was coming off before it was dead either. Hell, he could do it in heroics he'd just get flattened, though sometimes the couple of seconds of stun was worth it.
Raiding as a hunter is super easy though. Mash one button real fast, and two others (mend pet and feign death) occasionally.
Quote:
Whats that, a warlock pet?
You mean those dead female demons warlocks leave behind?
You mean those dead female demons warlocks leave behind?
See? we can even kill em for laughs. That counts as extra utility, right? :)
Ieatrocks wrote:
Raiding as a hunter is super easy though. Mash one button real fast, and two others (mend pet and feign death) occasionally.
I really hate those discussions, but I always have to enter them :-)
Playing a hunter in a raid is not that hard, there you are correct. However, playing a hunter is probably harder than playing any other ranged DPS class.
A typical boss fight from a mage/warlock POV? Mash the button of your primary spell really fast. Yeah that is probably very hard :-)
Hunters have a weird shot rotation which is depending a lot on your latency. Timing the shots is not that easy (at least a lot harder than spamming shadowbolts and life tapping now and then).
Since timing is everything you have to adjust your rotation to your procs, rapid fire, drums, heroism (yes you can use a macro for this, but it is not always as effective).
And don't forget we have a pet which has to be controlled (not hard, but just one thing more you have to look after).
And then there is hunters mark, scorpid sting duty, misdirection, kiting. Some boss fights are super easy and playing a hunter is really easy. In other fights you have to be aware of so many things that it is very hard to keep up on DPS.
However says that playing a hunter is very easy should do Illidan as the only hunter :-)
Just to describe your duties a bit:
- Hunters mark / scorpid sting duty (pretty obvious).
- Illidan is to be repositioned since he leaves fire patches which tick for 5k every 2 seconds (and if you don't call your pet back before the flame patch is placed, your pet is toast).
- There are several aggro resets where Misdirection is crucial. If you **** up, the raid likely wipes.
- People get a debuff every 15seconds which will spawn two tiny adds which have to be slowed and killed before they reach anyone. You lay frost traps for those adds and nuke them with one mage helping you (and placing a frost nova to help).
- Illidan spawns some demons which paralyze people and kill them when they reach them. You have to slow those with your frost trap, and nuke them hard once they spawn.
Lets compare this with a warlock:
- He has to mash 3 (or whereever his shadowbolt is on his action bar). And about 5-10 times he has to put a curse on Illidan.
I know this comparison is unfair, but really why should playing a hunter be easier then any other ranged DD class?
sloshot wrote:
I certainly would not be willing to link theorycraft with how good a hunter is. The two have some interaction but aren't really related.
You could be a theorycraft god, even test it out well enough in controlled environments but you could actually be pretty mediocre as a hunter, or even as a player in general.
You could be totally ignorant of theorycraft, inherently figure out what shot rotations work, what gear to get and be so skilled that everyone bows down to you. You might not be 100% theorycraft efficient but still rock.
You could be a theorycraft god, even test it out well enough in controlled environments but you could actually be pretty mediocre as a hunter, or even as a player in general.
You could be totally ignorant of theorycraft, inherently figure out what shot rotations work, what gear to get and be so skilled that everyone bows down to you. You might not be 100% theorycraft efficient but still rock.
I disagree. A Hunter who isn't aware of theorycraft might stumble onto the way to weave shots, but is more likely to hose their own DPS in any number of ways. Hunters who don't theorycraft use Aimed Shot. And why not? It does a lot of damage! They also use Serpent's Sting. And why not? DOTS are cool!* They also clip and stomp their Auto Shots, because they don't understand that, unlike a Mage who can mash their Fireball hotkey as fast as they like and will never interrupt their own casting rate, Hunters need to weave more carefully. I'm not flaming Mages here, just to be clear. It's a clear example of what other DPS classes can do to keep their DPS flowing which if Hunters tried to do the same would cut their DPS and mana efficiency in half.
*As an aside, on our first Gruul kill, when he hit 5% the Hunter lead called for all Hunters to throw Serpent's Sting. I said it wasn't on my hotbars and that I'd maintain Scorpid instead. That led to a forums discussion of the utility of Serpent's, and I think most of the Hunter's now don't use it, or at the least don't use it as often.
Kompera:
The operative word there is 'could'. I didn't say common, or regularly, I used "could" for a reason along with an extreme example.
The reason was to demonstrate that the items are not genuinely linked. Everything you said only supported what I had said.
I am just unwilling to state that if a player doesn't know 'accepted theorycraft' they are an ineffective player and if a player knows theorycraft perfectly that they can actually play well.
I'm not attacking theorycraft, I'm just pointing out that it is not the end all of things but part of the big picture.
Hell, my cats have an impact on my gameplay. They like to have my attention and hop on my keyboard from time to time... I just left that out of the equation even though they kill me on a fairly regular basis usually about once a month.
The operative word there is 'could'. I didn't say common, or regularly, I used "could" for a reason along with an extreme example.
The reason was to demonstrate that the items are not genuinely linked. Everything you said only supported what I had said.
I am just unwilling to state that if a player doesn't know 'accepted theorycraft' they are an ineffective player and if a player knows theorycraft perfectly that they can actually play well.
I'm not attacking theorycraft, I'm just pointing out that it is not the end all of things but part of the big picture.
Hell, my cats have an impact on my gameplay. They like to have my attention and hop on my keyboard from time to time... I just left that out of the equation even though they kill me on a fairly regular basis usually about once a month.
Ha! Like the time in MC when one of my cats jumped up and walked me backwards into a group of Fire Giants just as we were pulling for Gar. :)
Kompera wrote:
*As an aside, on our first Gruul kill, when he hit 5% the Hunter lead called for all Hunters to throw Serpent's Sting. I said it wasn't on my hotbars and that I'd maintain Scorpid instead. That led to a forums discussion of the utility of Serpent's, and I think most of the Hunter's now don't use it, or at the least don't use it as often.
Or decapitated, either one.
Oh, theres obviously a lot more to raiding, and even though my mage hasn't gotten to 70 yet (I'm lazy and have too many alts) in instances he makes playing a hunter look like a joke in terms of ease.
DPSing as any class is easy I suppose. It is all the other things that make it difficult.
DPSing as any class is easy I suppose. It is all the other things that make it difficult.
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