ok probaly gonna be a wall of text and my spelling and grammer aint that good. read at your own risk.
ok first off i'm lvl 57 my armory is http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Anvilmar&n=Rabidbear
where start...
hmm ok what i'm trying to figure out when should i go down the resto tree for intensity? i'm almost thinking i went too early. reason for that being. my normal spell rotation is SF,SF,MF,W,W,W,W dead i hope. sometimes will toss in a IS if mob is too close some how to get the second SF off. ok now for why i think i went too early. going by that i should have little over 20sec of mp5 mana regen.(gonna say mob knocked back some wraths and latency issues). atm my mp5 casting is about 90 self buffed. so i'm getting about 360 mana back dureing a fight. but i think i only got about 30 mana or so from intensity(anyone good with tallens and math be my guest on figureing out exact numbers if you want i'm not so good at it). so really only gaining 120 mana per 5 casting from haveing points into resto tree. thats not even enough to cover 1 wrath.
now if i would have went down the balance tree something like this http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=0xcrziIsguVoZo
i could have gotten an extra 20% damage on crit from vengence, 10% damage to mf w and sf from moonfury, and sf get 20% more from my SD along with wrath geting 10%. seems would take a wrath or two less to kill a mob.
so in theory would be more mana from all balance than going down resto. or did i miss something.
looking for personal experiance input here, on wich you think would lead to faster lvling/less down time. please dont say go feral i aint good at feral i get the icons mixed up and ***** up sitting there trying to use the back attack one when i need to do a front attack. and dont ask me to tank as a druid i can as warr and pally but druid has me all befunked.
seems most info i find for druid is feral and resto not much bal.
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Scholar
22 posts
a few personal comments on your current build:
1- as balance, Natural Shapeshifter is essentially useless. those three points are better used elsewhere.
2- Balance of Power isn't the most necessary thing for leveling .. i'd chuck those two points elsewhere also.
3- if you're really gonna be a bal dru, please hit Wrath of Cenarius and and Moonfury, whether it's now or later.
4- i personally like Naturalist more than Nature's Focus. faster cast times = <3 for druids.
5- seeing as you're gonna be headed into BC soon (assuming you have the xpac) you may wanna consider getting the trees. i'm a 70 restokin and, in a toss up between Nature's Swiftness and Treants .. i have to say i choose treants .. especially when still soloing, the extra help is immeasurable.
a few personal comments on your bal build:
1- i like it, myself. you've hit what i think are all the really juicy bits of the balance tree.
2- again, for leveling, Balance of Power probably isn't needed direly.
a few comments on what you may consider in the future:
1- yes, imp Mark of the Wild is important; don't let others tell you different.
2- please invest in Subtlety. it is critical once you get to a certain state of pwnage to have that 20% reduc. to threat.
3- when in doubt as a moonkin(/restokin) between Dreamstate and Intensity, usually Dreamstate is the best way to go. remember that Dreamstate relies on your intellect (more plentiful in a balance druid) and Intensity relies upon your spirit (more plentiful in a resto druid).
1- as balance, Natural Shapeshifter is essentially useless. those three points are better used elsewhere.
2- Balance of Power isn't the most necessary thing for leveling .. i'd chuck those two points elsewhere also.
3- if you're really gonna be a bal dru, please hit Wrath of Cenarius and and Moonfury, whether it's now or later.
4- i personally like Naturalist more than Nature's Focus. faster cast times = <3 for druids.
5- seeing as you're gonna be headed into BC soon (assuming you have the xpac) you may wanna consider getting the trees. i'm a 70 restokin and, in a toss up between Nature's Swiftness and Treants .. i have to say i choose treants .. especially when still soloing, the extra help is immeasurable.
a few personal comments on your bal build:
1- i like it, myself. you've hit what i think are all the really juicy bits of the balance tree.
2- again, for leveling, Balance of Power probably isn't needed direly.
a few comments on what you may consider in the future:
1- yes, imp Mark of the Wild is important; don't let others tell you different.
2- please invest in Subtlety. it is critical once you get to a certain state of pwnage to have that 20% reduc. to threat.
3- when in doubt as a moonkin(/restokin) between Dreamstate and Intensity, usually Dreamstate is the best way to go. remember that Dreamstate relies on your intellect (more plentiful in a balance druid) and Intensity relies upon your spirit (more plentiful in a resto druid).
punkspider, ****** Superhero wrote:
ok probaly gonna be a wall of text and my spelling and grammer aint that good. read at your own risk.
yours certainly isn't the worst wall 'o text ever, and spelling and grammar are better than a lot of posts. is your shift key broken though. simply capitalizing the first word of each sentence and putting question marks at the end of questions will make your posts dramatically easier to read.
I'm sorry to nitpick without providing any new info (I'm fully feral and clueless on balance stuff) but I figure I'd get the "please capitalize sentences" advice on the table while it's at the top of the page anyway.
OK, now I gotta go find a feral question I can actually do something with. :)
You did exactly the right thing with your current distribution of talent points. Everything is exactly where it should be.
The problem you're having has more to do with gear than anything else. That you're not getting a whole lot out of Intensity at this point is simply that you don't have a whole lot of Spirit right now, with your Intellect being somewhat low as well.
Just pull it together for another level, go to Outland, and watch how things will improve with every little quest reward or instance drop you can get your hands on.
As you level to 70, fill up Vengeance, then Wrath of Cenarius. Get the treants if you want, and put your remaining points into Subtlety. You'll be just fine.
Try to catch up with your leatherworking as there is some nice stuff you can make in between 300 and 375 skill to help with the things you can't get from drops or quests.
The problem you're having has more to do with gear than anything else. That you're not getting a whole lot out of Intensity at this point is simply that you don't have a whole lot of Spirit right now, with your Intellect being somewhat low as well.
Just pull it together for another level, go to Outland, and watch how things will improve with every little quest reward or instance drop you can get your hands on.
As you level to 70, fill up Vengeance, then Wrath of Cenarius. Get the treants if you want, and put your remaining points into Subtlety. You'll be just fine.
Try to catch up with your leatherworking as there is some nice stuff you can make in between 300 and 375 skill to help with the things you can't get from drops or quests.
Fawe wrote:
a few personal comments on your current build:
1- as balance, Natural Shapeshifter is essentially useless. those three points are better used elsewhere.
1- as balance, Natural Shapeshifter is essentially useless. those three points are better used elsewhere.
I don't agree with you there. I am playing balance and I used to think the same thing, that Natural Shapeshifter is useless to us doomkins. That is, until 2 weeks ago. I decided to respec mildly, putting some minor changes in my build. I chose to forgo 3 points in Naturalist for Natural Shapeshifter. You won't believe the amount of mana it saves me while soloing or dps-ing and at the same time off-healing in a group. Shifting back and forth between moonkin and normal costs a lot of mana if you do it a few times.
Scholar
22 posts
Quote:
You won't believe the amount of mana it saves me while soloing or dps-ing and at the same time off-healing in a group.
i solve that problem by off-healing or solo-ing outside of moonkin form. the armour contribution in moonkin is fantastic, but people have their preferences and i'd rather have the quicker cast time. when i'm soloing, besides, i'm hardly ever in moonkin, and when i'm off-healing for a group, i shouldn't have to worry about the armour contribution because, whether dps-ing or healing at the time, i should not be gaining aggro. aside from which, Healing Touch is a long-*** cast. when i resort to having to use HT, i want a quick big-heal.
it's really a matter of preference.
Quote:
aside from which, Healing Touch is a long-*** cast. when i resort to having to use HT, i want a quick big-heal. it's really a matter of preference.
Have you played your druid at all since.. ummm... October or November last year? Shifts are automatic and instant, and you don't lose any cast time at all.
Just to clarify this:
Spending 5! talent points on a half second cast time reduction for a spell that you shouldn't be using all that much anyway is simply moronic, and even more so after the recent changes made to Regrowth. A full stack of HoTs will easily cover this GIGANTIC half second gap.
Fawe, you're not a restokin. You have a balance build, and a bad one at that. Intensity is a MUST for ANY caster druid or else you'll find yourself OOM and in fact don't need to worry about aggro since you'll be waiting for your potions or Innervate cooldown to expire. Dreamstate and Intensity are the PB & Jelly of a Restokin build because it allows you to generate mana from BOTH intellect and spirit. It's the only reason why this hybrid built even works.
We just had the whole Balance of Power discussion here recently. Not picking it up once it's available is just plain stupid. I can't see why anybody would accept a 6% chance to miss a mob 2 levels higher, which coincidentally happens to be the case with both quest mobs (usually) and bosses in normal and heroic instances.
The OP has mana problems already, which is ONLY because of his current gear, and you're telling him it would be smart to waste the mana on 6% of his spells?
This whole thing about Natural Shapeshifter not being important... Have you ever been to Slave Pens? What are you going to do if you're there as a Moonkin DPSer and happen to have a priest healer who just happens to be unable to remove poisons? Stay in caster form the entire time and ensure that the whole fight with Quagmirran takes longer - possibly long enough for the priest to run OOM? Did you ever notice that heals can crit too, and with that your aura benefits the healer as well? Shifting is part of being a druid, and anything that makes it more efficient is beneficial.
I don't intend to become the next Overlord on these forums, that's Theo's spot, but I'm getting rather angry about the amount of false information and stupid advice that is being spread by people with barely more than a handful of posts, but with a name in blue that actually leads people to believe the crap submitted.
Edited, May 7th 2008 9:56am by Kanngarnix
You took the words right out of my mouth... eerrr.... keyboard, Kanngarnix :) I incidently happen to have run Slave Pens yesterday, and the shifting back and forth was especially apparent there. And I couldn't agree more with you about the crit aura. My main argument why it's really stupid not to use Moonkin form is indeed the crit aura. 5 percent! It takes an insane amount of +spell crit to get 5% bonus, and with moonkin form it's free!
I would safely bet that the most useful talents I have at the moment are intensity, dreamstate en Balance of Power.
This is my build btw: http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Stormrage&n=Lorendaxxa Not anywhere near perfecte probably, and I might shift some points to subtlety when I hit 70, but it does the job :)
I would safely bet that the most useful talents I have at the moment are intensity, dreamstate en Balance of Power.
This is my build btw: http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Stormrage&n=Lorendaxxa Not anywhere near perfecte probably, and I might shift some points to subtlety when I hit 70, but it does the job :)
since posting this i switched to all balance and working way up resto. dont really see much diff in down time. i do see my SF went from 1k to 1.3k crits. i am casting less spells to down a mob, but mana regen went down to like 40 or so. lol i've been bal/resto past few weeks i haven't used my trees once since the change back to all balance. balance of power might not be needed for lvling but i just like the more chance to hit the mobs. hate wasted mana if i can avoide it.
shift key aint broken just dont use it that much really.
the shape shifting is cause i normaly have to back up heal some so i change stances in instances alot.too bad i dont have it now.
soloing seems dont need intencity yet. on groups i dont know yet i've yet to see my mana useage. i'm guessing i'm gonna be oom alot though and probaly pulling threat even more than i did with the other build.
as for the threat reduction tallent i was pondering on when to get that i was thinking last points as i lvled to 70, since it's only pointfull in grouping really wich i think 75% time is gonna be soloing.
shift key aint broken just dont use it that much really.
the shape shifting is cause i normaly have to back up heal some so i change stances in instances alot.too bad i dont have it now.
soloing seems dont need intencity yet. on groups i dont know yet i've yet to see my mana useage. i'm guessing i'm gonna be oom alot though and probaly pulling threat even more than i did with the other build.
as for the threat reduction tallent i was pondering on when to get that i was thinking last points as i lvled to 70, since it's only pointfull in grouping really wich i think 75% time is gonna be soloing.
Scholar
22 posts
I don't think you understand my intent. I am not asserting my build is the best, nor am I asserting that I know all there is to know about balance druids. I do not intend for the OP to harken to me in awe, nor do I intend for all other posters to read my post and suddenly have an epiphany and follow my lead.
I am stating my opinion, be it wrong or not. My build works for my style of play. I have trialed other builds and this is what works best for me. Kanngarnix, it is incredibly rude of you to criticize me so intensely and for you to assert that my build is "bad". I am sorry if I used the term 'restokin' wrongly in relation to myself; I've been described as a restokin by a few people and admit I may have been too quick to apply it to myself. But I am a solid and strong dps and, for my purposes, my healing isn't that bad, either. My build may need work, but it is not for you to judge; I shall discover it and decide on changes in my own time.
I am not posting on these forums to be sure that my genius ideas are spread to all the far reaches of the universe. I post on this forum because I think I may be able to help someone along the way in what small ways I can. I did not ask for a blue title, nor do I think I deserved it. You have spent an entire post ripping my original apart, which was unnecessary. I was not aggressive in my opinions or suggestions, be they mistaken as you say they are or no. Spend your energy, why don't you, responding in a fair manner instead of tearing well-meaning posts asunder.
I am stating my opinion, be it wrong or not. My build works for my style of play. I have trialed other builds and this is what works best for me. Kanngarnix, it is incredibly rude of you to criticize me so intensely and for you to assert that my build is "bad". I am sorry if I used the term 'restokin' wrongly in relation to myself; I've been described as a restokin by a few people and admit I may have been too quick to apply it to myself. But I am a solid and strong dps and, for my purposes, my healing isn't that bad, either. My build may need work, but it is not for you to judge; I shall discover it and decide on changes in my own time.
I am not posting on these forums to be sure that my genius ideas are spread to all the far reaches of the universe. I post on this forum because I think I may be able to help someone along the way in what small ways I can. I did not ask for a blue title, nor do I think I deserved it. You have spent an entire post ripping my original apart, which was unnecessary. I was not aggressive in my opinions or suggestions, be they mistaken as you say they are or no. Spend your energy, why don't you, responding in a fair manner instead of tearing well-meaning posts asunder.
Balance of Power is a very important talent to take. For almost every class it is stated that +spellhit or +hit is the fastest way to increase your DPS until you reach the cap. 4% from Balance of Power is 50 less spell hit you need to find in your gear, gems & enchants that you can use to focus on more damage & crit.
Along with that, Intensity & Dreamstate are very important. Unless you can cast wrath spam for a whole encounter without going OOM, each point in these talents will enable you to increase your DPS significantly.
I also recommend as many points in subtlety as you can manage. Our moonkin often finds himself having to back off if he gets a couple of crits. Having subtlety allows you to do more DPS without becoming threat limited. You can always vary this depending on how your threat is comparing to your tanks.
Along with that, Intensity & Dreamstate are very important. Unless you can cast wrath spam for a whole encounter without going OOM, each point in these talents will enable you to increase your DPS significantly.
I also recommend as many points in subtlety as you can manage. Our moonkin often finds himself having to back off if he gets a couple of crits. Having subtlety allows you to do more DPS without becoming threat limited. You can always vary this depending on how your threat is comparing to your tanks.
yeah i've noticed the crits already being a problem. cast 2 star fires and both critting = me getting beat on. that was brd though hopeing to find some good tanks in outlands.
oh btw i went back to the resto/bal build. just far enough to get the mana regen in resto working back up bal now. i was going oom too fast in outlands soloing. and after a few outlands gear items and think new SF i'm now criting SF for 1.8k damage wich makes nice killing when i get 2 sf crits and 1 mf crit= dead mob before i even get hit.
oh btw i went back to the resto/bal build. just far enough to get the mana regen in resto working back up bal now. i was going oom too fast in outlands soloing. and after a few outlands gear items and think new SF i'm now criting SF for 1.8k damage wich makes nice killing when i get 2 sf crits and 1 mf crit= dead mob before i even get hit.
The crit problem is quite dependent on the tank at work I noticed. Since hitting outland (my char is now lvl68 and the first of my chars to reach outland), I've been mostly main healing in instances because of the lack of healers, although I am technically balance. After a while I found a tank I really like to work with, and at some point the situation arose that a -real- healer was around (Slave Pens was the instance) so I could dps. Not a single scratch to me or any other person although I almost dpsed to full potential. The tank (prot warrior) really knew how to keep us out of trouble. This was a thing I also noticed while being the main healer. I only ever needed to heal him and no-one else :O
A day later I joined a pick up group with a holy paladin as main healer and a prot warrior as tank (not the guy I mentioned above) and we went for durnholde. Massive problems all the time. The tank just couldn't hold aggro and I got killed multiple times even after I decided to double the waiting before I got into action each encounter. At some point I gave up. Pulling aggro is a doomkin's main problem because of our lack of cc, so the tank should be extra... threatening ;)
A day later I joined a pick up group with a holy paladin as main healer and a prot warrior as tank (not the guy I mentioned above) and we went for durnholde. Massive problems all the time. The tank just couldn't hold aggro and I got killed multiple times even after I decided to double the waiting before I got into action each encounter. At some point I gave up. Pulling aggro is a doomkin's main problem because of our lack of cc, so the tank should be extra... threatening ;)
That is where Omen comes in. You can get to learn how much threat your crits generate and make sure you always leave enough room for a crit between you and the tank. Also, if you are using a regular tank, you quickly learn not to wait for 5 sunders like we used to pre-BC, but to wait till they hit a certain amount of threat, I often wait for at least 3-4k threat, which will usually cover me for a crit mangle & shred.
I wish all DPS would do this. I can almost guarantee DPS will pull agro if I miss my first mangle (or get to the next mob with no rage) while tanking because they are used to me having really good snap threat.
I wish all DPS would do this. I can almost guarantee DPS will pull agro if I miss my first mangle (or get to the next mob with no rage) while tanking because they are used to me having really good snap threat.
Funny you mention it, because I installed Omen yesterday per advice from my guildees. DPSing really becomes a breeze now :)
Quote:
Pulling aggro is a doomkin's main problem because of our lack of cc, so the tank should be extra... threatening ;)
Not so much actually. Xperl throws out a big huge aggro warning in addition to the highlighting on the unit frames (and the Omen explosion before you even get close, which makes me jump every time) so there is usually always enough time to throw on Barkskin and move towards the tank to pick the mob back up. Then there is Cyclone too to give you those extra seconds needed. Besides, there is a reason why we get to wear leather armor with a huge multiplier in moonkin form.
I'm using a Nature's Swiftness macro that casts NS with Healing Touch on a friendly target, Cyclone on a harmful target, and with modifier on myself, and it saved my virtual life and that of party and raid members countless times already.
To help with initial threat when you're out with a warrior tank, watch the hit indicator on the mob that's being pulled. If the tank hits with his ranged weapon, it's perfectly safe to immediately cast Faerie Fire to make that initial Shield Slam hurt just a tad bid more and get you into the game sooner. On multi-mob pulls, wait until the initial Thunderclap/Swipe, then cast FF on the others as the tank will most likely be focused on the kill target. Once you get on the kill target yourself, the tank will have enough threat on it for you to start your usual spell rotation.
Oh... and Intervene only has a 20 yard range. After the nerf however, it just perfectly matches Cyclone range, so if you're in range for that, the warrior can save your sorry *** as well.
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