What are paladins most used for endgame?Follow

Don't say ret is useless... it'll all kick off again here :p

But back to your question, Holy is certainly the most common spec in raiding but Prot is also very useful but most raiding guilds would not have a prot pala maintanking. Although for Hyjal trash you honestly can't beat it.

Despite what others may tell you, tankadins are very much viable for end game tanking and can/have tanked every boss there is (as far as I know, not sure about sunwell though). Old Capjack prob fill you in on that.

Pala blessings are also amongst the best in the game so most raids will want palas in there be it prot or holy. Ret.... are less desired for end game raiding....

There are a LOT of threads here about palas in end game, prob go into a lot more detail... it's late and I'm sleepy....

Don't say that, Bodh. You know toolofjesus and TooRetForYou single-handedly do 99% of their guild's damage on every run.

Whoa kinda uncalled for there, Gaudion. I know you hate Ret with a venom but I've never claimed to be da Sh*t.

Affex - I think as long as your guild allows ret paladins to run raids - a vast majority of people take special joy in beating ret paladins down, you'll just have to live with it - and you know what you're doing, you'll frequently be on or around the top of the damage meters. Not quite 99% of damage like Gaudion suggests, but respectable enough to keep up with the shadow priests, rogues and mages out there.

Edited, Apr 30th 2008 12:28pm by TooRetForYou

Holy. Sit back, click healbot, no one dies, get epics. :)

Bod speaks the truth.

On a side note, I've become raid leader and person in charge of recruiting, invites, etc. for my guild and somehow I've ended up with *2* ret paladins. Know how frustrating that is? Granted one is a HELLA good one and is the only other person in the raid that can give my hunter a run for its money (though rarely beat) on damage done. We do run 2-3 holy paladins and on occasion a protection paladin on top of that. OK fine, that many just means we can refresh judgements. But what's the point of having a second? His dps is OK at best... just frustrating lol. At the same time, his raid attendance is 100%, which I can't say for all our dps.

I'll probably keep a ret set aside for when my guild needs a good dps.other then that i'll probably go prot or holy.I just see more holy pld's now then any.

LawlYouTube.

Seriously, are you tommyguns' alt?


Kind of late addressing this, but... Actually, I have very little venom for Ret itself. If you want to check way, way back a few Ret-discussion threads ago, I was very supportive of Ret as far as viability and raid inclusion go.

What gets my venom pumping is when people start claiming that, properly played and geared, Ret is cruise-control for the top of the damage meter/BG's/arenas/whatever. And nearly every serious Ret player on this board has taken that stance at one time or another.

Ret is viable now. It's solo-able, instance-able, and raid-able. It is also mid-to-high on a DPS list at best. If you are topping DPS meters as Ret, it says a lot more about the people you're playing with than your own skill, gear, or the effectiveness of the spec on a general scale. And it is still a poor-man's Rogue/Warrior in most PvP situations.

Edited, May 1st 2008 3:51pm by Gaudion

Post a WWS parse of a raid where you're top 5. I'll point out the details of how everyone else isn't doing as well as they could. Ret can do decent or even good DPS, but if you're placing top 5 then something's wrong - your gear, other people's playstyle, or the RNG.

Edited, May 1st 2008 3:27pm by lsfreak

Ret becomes more a factor in maximizing raid dps, specifically fitting into a your melee dps group later. Still not going to be top dps, easy to get by without one.

Then there is the problem of finding a geared and knowledgeable Ret Pally. I am talking a guy with spreadsheets, a strong understanding of stats and where he is going and can dodge scripted encounters and perform. That whole 5% of ret are good and the rest are terribad is an exaggeration but you have an excessive about of Ret Paladins who equate big crits to being dps, or post meters on fights that are skewed in their favour as evidence.

Once again though only 1 ret per raid, and even then its not a guaranteed slot since a lot of guilds can do it without ret.

/nod

Interestingly enough, that youtube link had a WWS linked to it.

http://wowwebstats.com/d6q6bntcdbsns?s=5159-5520

Paladin got 2 Bloodlusts. Unfortunately, I'm too tired to interpret the rest.

Its more supporting then dps from what I see when looking at their talents:

+10% extra holy damage (which is 10% extra tankadin threat, situational I know)
and + 2% extra damage party wide
+3% extra crit / restore mana or health on hit
+ an extra blessing
+ 2nd or 3rd in dps

I put them in the same place as a dps warrior, elemental shaman or hunter(more buff then cc though).

Speaking from a tankadin's point of view I love the buffs they bring to me in a 5 man. 10% more threat, the ability to have BoK and BoW, as well as giving me the ability to SoW the bosses makes life easier for me.

Also the fact that a 2nd LoH is available and there's an OffHealer in case things go pear shaped is an acceptable reason to lose out on a pure dps class.

I dont raid but as far as 5 mans go Retadins are always welcome when I am tanking. Thats why I am giving it a try right now =P

Edited, May 5th 2008 2:24am by arthoriuss

spelling

Edited, May 5th 2008 2:28am by arthoriuss

Early on in raiding Kara to SSC/TK ret really isn't necessary. You can progress through the content without them and having on just to have one when the gear and skill is not there is actually very detrimental to the raid. Since they aren't mandatory most guilds choose to fill the slots with other dps.

Once you get into BT and beyond it is nice to have a ret pally in your dps group. They aren't melting face but the dps is not bad and the buffs paired with the gear of the people they are with tends to make them an assesset, but still not absolutely mandatory.

The problem being is that you need the gear, the skill and also to find a guild that will progress into the content and actually let you raid ret. That factored in with the reality that a raid only needs 1 ret pally tops, well you may as well roll a Rogue or a Hunter and try to find a dps slot because you have a better chance of finding a dps slot in that oversaturated market than you would ever have as ret.