Hi,
I am tossing my equipement right now, and I am thinking about hit rating. I want to never miss a player in PvP, so I have to get sufficient hit rating to reach +5% to hit. This is basic. But I read recently in some known website I will not talk about that there is always a 1% to miss a player in PvP??
I am confused^^, perhaps the article was not very clear, and refered maybie to something else...can someone confirm that +5% to hit will NEVER miss a player in PvP? In the same way and to be sure too, I want my opponent to never parry and dodge my strikes with sufficient expertise rating, is it possible? (in that case sufficient expertise rating to reach 5% to never be parried or dodged, or say even 10% for against combat rogues and arms warriors)
I know that in PvE environnement I need +9% to hit to never miss a mob (a boss), but I mean here in a PvP environnement.
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Hit rating and paladin. Can I never miss a player?Follow
I don't PvP so I can't speak on if you can still miss while hitcapped.. but I have this to offer...
I don't have a 5% chance to be missed. I have over a 10% chance to be missed (by mobs, though I imagine it'd become 9% by players). This is because I have WELL over the base 350 defense that a level 70 character has.
The reason you need that extra hit against a raid boss is because they are considered 3 levels (15 defense) higher than a level 70. Any given Protection spec will have at least 490 defense. If we were a mobs, we'd be calculated at level 98 with that much defense and you'd have a hell of a time hitting us. This is why we absolutly SUCK when we get mind controlled... invincibility :D -- Obviously this doesn't apply to PvP because you CAN hit tank specced people.. just saying.
You can't consider 5% to be the hard and fast rule for hitcapping in PvP though because you never know if someone has a chunk of defense.
I don't have a 5% chance to be missed. I have over a 10% chance to be missed (by mobs, though I imagine it'd become 9% by players). This is because I have WELL over the base 350 defense that a level 70 character has.
The reason you need that extra hit against a raid boss is because they are considered 3 levels (15 defense) higher than a level 70. Any given Protection spec will have at least 490 defense. If we were a mobs, we'd be calculated at level 98 with that much defense and you'd have a hell of a time hitting us. This is why we absolutly SUCK when we get mind controlled... invincibility :D -- Obviously this doesn't apply to PvP because you CAN hit tank specced people.. just saying.
You can't consider 5% to be the hard and fast rule for hitcapping in PvP though because you never know if someone has a chunk of defense.
The 5% to hit in PvP is for your skills and for skills only. You would have to stack an inordinate amount of +hit that's just not possible, or at least not practical, to get with PvP gear in order to achieve the accuracy rating people shoot for in PvE with your auto-attacks.
Edited, Apr 29th 2008 5:53pm by Gaudion
Edited, Apr 29th 2008 5:53pm by Gaudion
Good points, thanks.
I don't think my idea is that difficult to applicate I have the talent of the protection tree that gives me the +3% to hit, so +5% is achievable in PvP gear with enchants.^^ (and the hit rating bonus of my weapon)
As for the expertise rating, I am human so I would need only 15 expertise rating with my 5 expertise to never be dodged by say mages or warlocks. Never be parried by some rogues and warriors would be a bonus.
I don't think my idea is that difficult to applicate I have the talent of the protection tree that gives me the +3% to hit, so +5% is achievable in PvP gear with enchants.^^ (and the hit rating bonus of my weapon)
As for the expertise rating, I am human so I would need only 15 expertise rating with my 5 expertise to never be dodged by say mages or warlocks. Never be parried by some rogues and warriors would be a bonus.
Are you taking into account that the Rogues and Warriors might have the talents that give them an extra 5% chance to parry? Or the Mage talent Arctic Winds that reduces your chance to hit them by an additional 5%?
If people have access to talents that decrease their chances for incoming damage, they generally take them. That's why over-gearing for +hit in PvP generally doesn't work. It just elevates and gets out of hand too quickly.
If people have access to talents that decrease their chances for incoming damage, they generally take them. That's why over-gearing for +hit in PvP generally doesn't work. It just elevates and gets out of hand too quickly.
This may be completely wrong but I'll give my take on it.
There will always be a 1% chance to miss. I'm not sure the reasoning behind this but it -is- the rule. I don't feel like looking up the exact numbers right now (It's final week and I'm putting of studying :D) but I think level 70 mobs have a base 5% chance to mitigate your attacks. A level 73 raid boss has the 9% chance to mitigate your attacks.
Now, apply this to PvP. Go to the defense tab and add your personal mitigation. This is Dodge + Parry + Block. (I think that's all the stats to add). Now, chances are this is much higher that 9%. Now, I'm guessing to be 'hit capped' against another player you would have to reach this number. Certain classes or specs will have an absurd amount of mitigation and it won't be normalized like PvE mobs are. So, stacking enough +hit to cancel (rough estimate) that rogues 55% mitigation might be extremely tough, and nigh impossible.
Again, this is all completely speculation. :) Hoped this help at all.
There will always be a 1% chance to miss. I'm not sure the reasoning behind this but it -is- the rule. I don't feel like looking up the exact numbers right now (It's final week and I'm putting of studying :D) but I think level 70 mobs have a base 5% chance to mitigate your attacks. A level 73 raid boss has the 9% chance to mitigate your attacks.
Now, apply this to PvP. Go to the defense tab and add your personal mitigation. This is Dodge + Parry + Block. (I think that's all the stats to add). Now, chances are this is much higher that 9%. Now, I'm guessing to be 'hit capped' against another player you would have to reach this number. Certain classes or specs will have an absurd amount of mitigation and it won't be normalized like PvE mobs are. So, stacking enough +hit to cancel (rough estimate) that rogues 55% mitigation might be extremely tough, and nigh impossible.
Again, this is all completely speculation. :) Hoped this help at all.
Yes.. that's completely wrong :D
A raid boss has a 9% chance to be *missed* not to avoid an attack. Their avoidence is MUCH higher. Miss is calculated by taking the base miss rate (5%) and adding the miss they generate from defense (395 defense for a Raid Boss) which puts them at 9%.
Also.. hit doesn't do anything to reduce Dodges or Parries or Blocks. It only makes a difference on misses. If you don't want to be Dodged or Parried, stack expertise. If you don't want to be blocked, either attack from behind or stun them.
Except when you're under Mind Control, no mob (CPU controlled) can ever be considered more than 3 levels above you (level determined by defense rating) so the worst you can see there is 9% (unless dual wielding). 490 Defense tanks are equivalent to level 98 mobs though if ALL of their defense is allowed to come into play.
Edited, Apr 30th 2008 1:31am by Losie
A raid boss has a 9% chance to be *missed* not to avoid an attack. Their avoidence is MUCH higher. Miss is calculated by taking the base miss rate (5%) and adding the miss they generate from defense (395 defense for a Raid Boss) which puts them at 9%.
Also.. hit doesn't do anything to reduce Dodges or Parries or Blocks. It only makes a difference on misses. If you don't want to be Dodged or Parried, stack expertise. If you don't want to be blocked, either attack from behind or stun them.
Except when you're under Mind Control, no mob (CPU controlled) can ever be considered more than 3 levels above you (level determined by defense rating) so the worst you can see there is 9% (unless dual wielding). 490 Defense tanks are equivalent to level 98 mobs though if ALL of their defense is allowed to come into play.
Edited, Apr 30th 2008 1:31am by Losie
So hit rating and paladins in PvP, is just a part of a larger dilemna which concerns avoidance and PvP and also raid bosses as I understand it now with your posts in this thread. Interesting nonetheless. :)
Well defense should be counted totally in PvP, IMO poor tanks if not(they would'nt dish damage at all, and what, their defense rating is not counted normally in PvP, er...^^ But maybie this is too strong.^^)
As for my initial question, "is there always a 1% to miss a player, really!, even if you are geared for +5% to hit or better", if nobody knows I will test this by myself. ^^
Thanks for an answer if a new lurker is coming in the boards and knows it !, and thanks so far for having elevitate the discussion beyond hit rating and paladins in PvP, yes how defense actually works in PvP, good question.
Well defense should be counted totally in PvP, IMO poor tanks if not(they would'nt dish damage at all, and what, their defense rating is not counted normally in PvP, er...^^ But maybie this is too strong.^^)
As for my initial question, "is there always a 1% to miss a player, really!, even if you are geared for +5% to hit or better", if nobody knows I will test this by myself. ^^
Thanks for an answer if a new lurker is coming in the boards and knows it !, and thanks so far for having elevitate the discussion beyond hit rating and paladins in PvP, yes how defense actually works in PvP, good question.
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