I'm afraid wall of text might be incoming....watch out for pats! :P
The help I'll get to in a sec. As for the reassurance, it's to comfort me that switching to Ret for the 60-70 push in outlands was the right thing to do lol.
I lvl'd from 30-56ish as prot. Up until the late 40s to early 50s I absolutely loved it. Even to the point of giggling as I burnt down large groups of mobs without a sweat. Then it got slow. Really slow...I would have times where I'd go to kill a mob a few lvls over me and just get nowhere. I could keep my hp/mp up but just not damage the mob enough to kill it. Or I could but it'd take 2-3min. And I had somewhat melee oriented gear. lots and lots of str. So I switched to Ret, grabbed myself a ******** 2h axe in outland and started swinging away. Well I can kill stuff faster. I usually use my seal as a judge of time. If I can kill something in under 30sec I'm happy....ish. The problem I noticed and am still dealing with is that I go OOM so incredibly fast. My typical routine is to Sanctity aura, BoM, SoW, judge, SoC, Crusader Strike as mana allows, and kill. Rinse and repeat for next mob. This keeps my mana up to some extent. If I get a great crit rate I do pretty well but drinking every 2-4 mobs is normal. Kind of a bummer cause I used to do a lot better as Prot.
My Prot routine was to Ret aura, BoS, SoW, judge, SoL, holy shield as much as mana would allow, and let the mobs burn themselves down on me. SoW, judge, and SoL as I switch to new mobs. I could do this indefinitely sometimes. Always full of mp and hp after battles. The reason I switched though is because it was only 25% of quests at best where I could reasonably get more than 1-2 mobs on me at once. I end up fighting one mob at a time...slowly.
So just looking for a hug that I chose wisely for my last 10lvls of questing ^^
Also am I doing it right? I have done a lot of research on pally and although there are tons of posts/threads on what gear to wear, how to tank kara, how to heal, etc. I can't really find anything on the most efficient ways to solo. Even the thread on how to solo Strat. Which is something I want to do eventually. The OP states that he is solo'ing Strat on his "dps pally". What does this mean? Is this a Ret pally? If so, do you solo this sort of thing with sword and board and tanking gear? Or is this a Prot pally in dps gear? Do you always use sword and board when solo'ing pre-BC dungeons or 2h'er sometimes?
My plan for pally is to be an endgame tank for my guild. I have my shammy which can heal, my hunter and rog soon for dps, so this guy will be pure tank. I also will not be bothering with daily/questing after I hit 70 and respecc Prot. That's my longterm plan. We(my guild) are not ready to start raiding for a while so my short term goal is to be able to run friends through pre-BC dungeons. Also quest helping, etc. I'm guessing Prot will be the best spec for this sort of stuff? If so what type of gear and technique am I going to be most successful with? I would think that typical str and stm will be best. Maybe 'of the Champion stuff? Or do I want more +spell damage gear? I have already started saving caster style plate from outlands quests in case that is what I need.
I know that endgame tanking is a whole different ballgame than solo'ing but I'm not really concerned with that now. Now I want to help out guildies, build rep, and have fun surviving insane amounts of mobs ^^
Please please help me out with this. I know it's a lot of questions but I'm very serious. My goal is to be the tank that people go, "DAMN!", after they see my survive crazy odds.
Thank you very much in advance for any advice or criticism,
-Shrub
Edited, Apr 28th 2008 8:51pm by Shrubbry
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Shrubbry wrote:
Wall of text here
Easiest way to lvl a pally, is to get an aoe/dps class (mage is good, also get water :) and spec holy. You can heal instances, and you can heal aggro mobs during questing. With RF up and some heals thrown in, you'll have no problem keeping mobs on you. And even as healadin, you'll have a ton of survivability with all that plate you're wearing. Uninterruptable heals means you can heal midfight without pushbacks.
When you're up against casters, let that mage go to work and just keep him up.
Pally soloing IS slow. I'm lvling a hunter (yes, I know. Everyone has one), as I really HATE doing dailies (anything that involves me killing one mob at the time) except bomb runs and fishing. Those mana draining bastards in the new area? Horrible.
But when I'm in BEM and grinding demons for Aldor rep, I can pick up 10-12 at the time and come out with 80% health and mana...
Cheers :)
Quote:
Easiest way to lvl a pally, is to get an aoe/dps class (mage is good, also get water :) and spec holy.
Thanks for the response. Your advice has been noted ^^
Spec'ing Holy is just not something I'm interested in doing. You can call it stubborn if you like :P I also am an accomplished solo'er. It's just something I love to do and something I will be doing with pally regardless of the intricacies of the class.
I am looking for the best techniques and gear choices for solo play right now. I could team up with a mage but then it wouldn't be solo lol. I also could not go afk whenever I want or go do whatever at a moments notice. I know it would be easier perhaps but not what I want. Also dailies are not an issue right now. I have 2 other 70s I do that with. Even my shammy is probably more enjoyable for that than a Prot pally would be lol.
Thanks again for the response. That was fast ^^
-Shrub
Scholar
37 posts
Prot leveling is actually pretty darn slow in my opinion. It will get a bit quicker in Outlands. However, something that would help a LOT is using SoR instead of Light. Judge wisdom is fine. Bandage when needed and judge every 8 seconds, this will up your dps a lot. During leveling, I also reccomend using SoV for single target mobs.. solo, that is. I found it killed mobs faster than using SoR.
Kassira
Prot leveling is actually pretty darn slow in my opinion. It will get a bit quicker in Outlands. However, something that would help a LOT is using SoR instead of Light. Judge wisdom is fine. Bandage when needed and judge every 8 seconds, this will up your dps a lot. During leveling, I also reccomend using SoV for single target mobs.. solo, that is. I found it killed mobs faster than using SoR.
I see. So judge wisdom then seal vengeance? I don't have that yet, 64 I think, but I'll remember for when I do. Thanks!
As for the last bit, I haven't really used SoR since the very early lvls.
Thanks for the reply,
-Shrub
Quote:
Prot leveling is actually pretty darn slow in my opinion. It will get a bit quicker in Outlands. However, something that would help a LOT is using SoR instead of Light. Judge wisdom is fine. Bandage when needed and judge every 8 seconds, this will up your dps a lot. During leveling, I also reccomend using SoV for single target mobs.. solo, that is. I found it killed mobs faster than using SoR.
I see. So judge wisdom then seal vengeance? I don't have that yet, 64 I think, but I'll remember for when I do. Thanks!
As for the last bit, I haven't really used SoR since the very early lvls.
Thanks for the reply,
-Shrub
SoR = Seal of Righteousness
Its the damage dealing seal of choice for Protection specced pallies
Whenever I was facing single mobs I judge Seal of the Crusader on them then SoR for the extra damage bonus.
The problem with Prot is it takes forever to kill any mobs... Whether thats 1 or 10 it will take some time compared to any other class/spec. I like Prot but Ret is faster to solo with even if you do go /oom every couple of mobs.
The other thing I would advise is dont stack strength for Prot it doesnt help you like it does for a warrior. Prot and Holy paladins use spell damage gear as a means for increasing their DPS. Ret is the opposite as it uses Attack Power, Strength and agility to get crits etc. Strength = bad unless your Ret
Depending on who you speak to SoV has mixed results. I only use it on really long fights like bosses because it really only shines if you can keep it applied at its max and I believe it takes at least 5 swings before it starts dealing substantial damage.
Edited, Apr 29th 2008 7:13am by arthoriuss
Its the damage dealing seal of choice for Protection specced pallies
Whenever I was facing single mobs I judge Seal of the Crusader on them then SoR for the extra damage bonus.
The problem with Prot is it takes forever to kill any mobs... Whether thats 1 or 10 it will take some time compared to any other class/spec. I like Prot but Ret is faster to solo with even if you do go /oom every couple of mobs.
The other thing I would advise is dont stack strength for Prot it doesnt help you like it does for a warrior. Prot and Holy paladins use spell damage gear as a means for increasing their DPS. Ret is the opposite as it uses Attack Power, Strength and agility to get crits etc. Strength = bad unless your Ret
Depending on who you speak to SoV has mixed results. I only use it on really long fights like bosses because it really only shines if you can keep it applied at its max and I believe it takes at least 5 swings before it starts dealing substantial damage.
Edited, Apr 29th 2008 7:13am by arthoriuss
Quote:
SoR = Seal of Righteousness
Its the damage dealing seal of choice for Protection specced pallies
Whenever I was facing single mobs I judge Seal of the Crusader on them then SoR for the extra damage bonus.
Its the damage dealing seal of choice for Protection specced pallies
Whenever I was facing single mobs I judge Seal of the Crusader on them then SoR for the extra damage bonus.
Ok, when you fight multiple mobs do you still use those 2? I found that facing 3 or more mobs at once with out SoL on me my HP would be an issue.
Thinking about it now I guess I should have messed around with it more when I was only facing one mob at a time. I pretty much stuck to SoL and SoW only. I found with out those 2 I had a lot more trouble with mp and hp but with them I could keep from drinking and healing that often and use Holy Shield liberally. I never really got into Consecrate much cause it seems like such a mana hog.
I really appreciate the advice. I'm contemplating switching back to Prot now. Especially after just going through hell trying to get some holy water in Strat for my 60 mount summon. My Ret was pretty much useless in there when it came to taking on a few mobs at once. Even with sword and board.
Thanks,
-Shrub
arthoriuss wrote:
Depending on who you speak to SoV has mixed results. I only use it on really long fights like bosses because it really only shines if you can keep it applied at its max and I believe it takes at least 5 swings before it starts dealing substantial damage.
Someone here did the math and found out that judging SoV is better than JoR after 3 stacks (note: only for judgement). I find that with a fast weapon SoV usually stack up pretty fast. I usually start with SoW/SotC depending on mana, and then SoV. Don't judge SoV as soon as Judgement is off cooldown however. Wait until you see SoV is refreshed, then judge so you get max time to reaply seal before the 15 seconds are up.
I usually switch to (mostly) healing gear when I solo, as my spelldamage goes way up, and I get some decent healing bonus. Tank set I just take out when needed (i.e. when I can find packs of mobs).
Cheers :)
If you're taking over 20 seconds to kill as ret then there's a problem here. My max time taken to kill a mob is generally 20 seconds, and i'm holy. I seriously suggest you simply judge SotC, put up SoC then pound away, crusader striking whenever it's up. Swap blessing of might for blessing of wisdom, you make take 1 more hit to kill but it really helps your mana. IMO there isn't much point judging SoW on a mob, you may regen a bit of mana but with the 3% crit boost from SotC you'll simply be killing faster, and that's what's important.
I've asked my ret pally guildy (ret from 1-70) and he says that how fast you kill will generally depend on crit, if you get a good few crits you can down mobs in under 10 seconds easily, if not, 15-20 seconds is normal.
But then again, what do i know? i was prot 1-58 then holy all the way to the top, was pretty fast for me. Getting into groups easily always helps.
I've asked my ret pally guildy (ret from 1-70) and he says that how fast you kill will generally depend on crit, if you get a good few crits you can down mobs in under 10 seconds easily, if not, 15-20 seconds is normal.
But then again, what do i know? i was prot 1-58 then holy all the way to the top, was pretty fast for me. Getting into groups easily always helps.
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Hit Rating doesn't make that much difference while leveling as the chance of missing is usually much lower than in end-game. You're probably better off raising AP and crit than hit rating. Vengeance makes crit more beneficial than hit (up to a point).
Oh, and PvP builds usually work well for leveling as they have a good balance of survivability and damage (although, they often pass on efficiency-related talents like sanctified judgement).
Oh, and PvP builds usually work well for leveling as they have a good balance of survivability and damage (although, they often pass on efficiency-related talents like sanctified judgement).
I've been playing all three disciplines for the past 2 to 3 months, but I levelled 1 thru 70 as ret and am now playing ret.
I basically found that Prot is the worst and slowest for soloing - only some areas benefit prot and their AOE fighting style.
Holy is actually remarkably good for soloing. You survive well, heal uninterrupted, and with the patch 2.3 change that gives you bonus spell damage from 1/3 of your +healing, you can dish out a surprising amount of damage from holy shock and Seal of Rightenousness/ Judgements than you'd imagine (I critted with HS and JoR frequently around 1200 to 1800 per hit).
Ret is just phenomenal for soloing, especially against 2 targets or less. If you're decked out in the Gladiator's Scaled PvP stuff you'll benefit from a lot of extra INT and lots of armor so you won't be sitting around drinking as much. But I do remember when I just turned 70 and had scrub AH gear (mainly STR and AGI boosting gear, no INT) I had to drink a lot.
My 2 cents.
I basically found that Prot is the worst and slowest for soloing - only some areas benefit prot and their AOE fighting style.
Holy is actually remarkably good for soloing. You survive well, heal uninterrupted, and with the patch 2.3 change that gives you bonus spell damage from 1/3 of your +healing, you can dish out a surprising amount of damage from holy shock and Seal of Rightenousness/ Judgements than you'd imagine (I critted with HS and JoR frequently around 1200 to 1800 per hit).
Ret is just phenomenal for soloing, especially against 2 targets or less. If you're decked out in the Gladiator's Scaled PvP stuff you'll benefit from a lot of extra INT and lots of armor so you won't be sitting around drinking as much. But I do remember when I just turned 70 and had scrub AH gear (mainly STR and AGI boosting gear, no INT) I had to drink a lot.
My 2 cents.
On the topic of ret pally rotations, I'm biased toward max damage all the time. My usual setup is Imp. Sanctity Aura, Imp. Blessing of Might, keep SoComm up all the time, judge Imp. Crusader, Crusader Strike at every opportunity and judge Command between swings so you don't lose out on SoComm proc. Basic idea: kill em fast and you won't need to heal or mana up as much.
I ignore mana regen spells like Seal of Wisdom mainly because ret pallies usually (should) use slow 2-handers for max crit damage. The rate at which you land blows with the 2-hander does little or nothing for your mana regen with SoW, which usually benefits from high speed weapons (in the 1-1.9 speed range).
I also prefer Blessing of Might over Blessing of Wisdom - again for max damage and quick kills over preservation/attrition. Burst damage is the bread and butter of retribution.
Edited, Apr 30th 2008 1:46pm by TooRetForYou
Edited, Apr 30th 2008 1:46pm by TooRetForYou
I ignore mana regen spells like Seal of Wisdom mainly because ret pallies usually (should) use slow 2-handers for max crit damage. The rate at which you land blows with the 2-hander does little or nothing for your mana regen with SoW, which usually benefits from high speed weapons (in the 1-1.9 speed range).
I also prefer Blessing of Might over Blessing of Wisdom - again for max damage and quick kills over preservation/attrition. Burst damage is the bread and butter of retribution.
Edited, Apr 30th 2008 1:46pm by TooRetForYou
Edited, Apr 30th 2008 1:46pm by TooRetForYou
To each his own i guess, you have to decide between killing faster and having to drink more often or killing slower and having to drink less often. That's hwy horde pallies don't use SoB either, the damage is alot more than SoC but hurting yourself every swing means healing yourself which means even less mana to go around.
But don't worry too much, it seems the problem is you're having to fight mobs 2-3 levels above you, and that's never good for anyone. It'll get better once you're within a level of the mob, especially seeing as retadins have pretty slow attacks and can't afford to miss as much. Missed spells means wasted mana!
Edited, Apr 30th 2008 10:04pm by iceravenVI
But don't worry too much, it seems the problem is you're having to fight mobs 2-3 levels above you, and that's never good for anyone. It'll get better once you're within a level of the mob, especially seeing as retadins have pretty slow attacks and can't afford to miss as much. Missed spells means wasted mana!
Edited, Apr 30th 2008 10:04pm by iceravenVI
Thanks for all the responses guys!
I have not been able to lvl up much. Only one lvl since I started this thread. I have been working hard to get my 60 mount quest completed. Loads of fun lol. I am on the last part now. Just need to get people together for the Scholo part. But the xp'ing I have done has improved some.
I moved on to Zangar, which I always find a little easier than HFP but I am still fighting stuff that is slightly over my lvl. For every fight, I now: Sanctity Aura, BoW, SotC, judge, SoC, Crusader strike, then judge SoC and crusader strike till whatever it is is dead. This has potential to work very well. If all my crits line up stuff dies really fast. Amazingly fast. I am still having problems connecting though. And fighting comparably lv'd elites can be a big problem. I tried adding about +30 hit and didn't notice much improvement so I will probably work on swapping that out for more +agi, +crit, or +ap.
Thanks again for the advice,
-Shrub
I have not been able to lvl up much. Only one lvl since I started this thread. I have been working hard to get my 60 mount quest completed. Loads of fun lol. I am on the last part now. Just need to get people together for the Scholo part. But the xp'ing I have done has improved some.
I moved on to Zangar, which I always find a little easier than HFP but I am still fighting stuff that is slightly over my lvl. For every fight, I now: Sanctity Aura, BoW, SotC, judge, SoC, Crusader strike, then judge SoC and crusader strike till whatever it is is dead. This has potential to work very well. If all my crits line up stuff dies really fast. Amazingly fast. I am still having problems connecting though. And fighting comparably lv'd elites can be a big problem. I tried adding about +30 hit and didn't notice much improvement so I will probably work on swapping that out for more +agi, +crit, or +ap.
Thanks again for the advice,
-Shrub
I'm 69.5, and I've been protection spec since level 35. This is my second paladin to 70.
I've found that levelling as protection in TBC is a lot different than in Azeroth. I can't kill groups of 12 anymore, and aoe'ing groups of 3-4 down takes so long.
Instead, I've been going for maximum spell damage. I stack as much spell damage as I can get, and I open up 100% on mobs, pulled 1-3 at a time.
Ret Aura, BoS until 35% HP, then switch to BoW. Ardent Defender kicks in at 35% HP, so you're still tough to kill. Judge Crusader, pop trinkets, Max Rank Consecration, Max Rank Holy Shield, Seal of Righteousness, and judge whenever its up. Keep Holy Shield up, its cheap.
A lot of times I can judge a second target with Crusader and lay down another consecration before my trinket effect expires.
Its mana intensive, but you might be surprised. Once my first mob is dead, the others are at 50% or less from the consecrations and reflective damage. Get low on HP, bubble bandage. Get low on mana, stick to Sealing and Judging.
If I get dangerously low, I can switch to "turtle mode", or the traditional pally AOE. Judge light, seal light, bosanc, and grind em out.
I will be the first to admit that a retribution build is better for levelling in TBC. However, when I was retribution I hated getting adds because I couldn't handle them very well. I died a lot and had to eat and drink after nearly every fight. Prot spec gives me a lot of options and survivability, at the cost of DPS. It is not uncommon for me to start a fight with 35% HP. That's when ardent defender kicks in, so if you aren't below that very much, you aren't getting any use of those talents.
I've found that levelling as protection in TBC is a lot different than in Azeroth. I can't kill groups of 12 anymore, and aoe'ing groups of 3-4 down takes so long.
Instead, I've been going for maximum spell damage. I stack as much spell damage as I can get, and I open up 100% on mobs, pulled 1-3 at a time.
Ret Aura, BoS until 35% HP, then switch to BoW. Ardent Defender kicks in at 35% HP, so you're still tough to kill. Judge Crusader, pop trinkets, Max Rank Consecration, Max Rank Holy Shield, Seal of Righteousness, and judge whenever its up. Keep Holy Shield up, its cheap.
A lot of times I can judge a second target with Crusader and lay down another consecration before my trinket effect expires.
Its mana intensive, but you might be surprised. Once my first mob is dead, the others are at 50% or less from the consecrations and reflective damage. Get low on HP, bubble bandage. Get low on mana, stick to Sealing and Judging.
If I get dangerously low, I can switch to "turtle mode", or the traditional pally AOE. Judge light, seal light, bosanc, and grind em out.
I will be the first to admit that a retribution build is better for levelling in TBC. However, when I was retribution I hated getting adds because I couldn't handle them very well. I died a lot and had to eat and drink after nearly every fight. Prot spec gives me a lot of options and survivability, at the cost of DPS. It is not uncommon for me to start a fight with 35% HP. That's when ardent defender kicks in, so if you aren't below that very much, you aren't getting any use of those talents.
Quote:
To each his own i guess, you have to decide between killing faster and having to drink more often or killing slower and having to drink less often.
I'm using the max damage approach with every offensive category turned on and I only drink every 4 or 5 kills, not every kill. The key is to get STR/AGI gear with INT tacked on (the Scaled paladin PvP gear comes to mind), and be sure to grab Benediction and Sanctified Judgement which will help conserve mana when you lay down Judgement of the Crusader and Judgement of Command. If you really want to scale back on mana use don't judge Command at all and leave your damage dealing to your natural SoComm procs and CS swings. But in a typical solo fight with daily-baddies, I don't use more than 1/5 mana per mob.
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