This is a video of a paladin player PvPing back at 60. As you watch a few minutes in to the video, (The part where he is in AB defending the mines @ 2:45) you notice he is very much capable of dishing out dmg if need be, but he is also throwing out plenty of heals with out totally going OOM and such.
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=5074669838182931274&q=ascension+paladin+pvp&total=2&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0&hl=en-CA
This is probably the closest thing to the style of play that I like to use.
I love the support idea of the pally class and helping others, but still want to be able to kill something here and there as well (Ret Spec). My question is : Are Paladins still capable of doing this? i.e Would I be able to, (Just as a start) get that S1 gear, but mix up some of the healing pvp gear with the Ret pvp gear and still be fairly effective at both roles? Or would I just be a watered down useless wanna-be?
If so, anybody have a recommendable spec? There are some very good holy talents that would help with this, but at the expense of a very good 41 pt Ret talent. So im kinda lost which way to go.
Any input would be great thanks
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Are Ret Paladıns capable of playıng a heavy support role?Follow
read sticky: Shockadin.
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Quote:
read sticky: Shockadin.
Though your response ıs apprecıated, I was askıng about Ret. I know that Shockadıns can fıll that role, but I want to dısh out dmg and support others wıth a Ret-Spec style of play (str, crıt, AP, SoComm) not Holy (Int, mp5, splldmg/healıng, holy shock).
Anyone have any experıence or knowledge regardıng what ı am consıderıng doıng?
(And agaın Tommy, I really do apprecıate your response. Shockadın wasnt the solutıon I was lookıng for though. I was lookıng more for a "No ıt cant be done, not even mıxıng your gear ıtemızatıon up" or "Yes to an extent ıt can, thıs ıs how....)
to be honest i don't think it is really feasible anymore. as ret spec, i have a decent healing set and w/ full healing set on i can throw a few decent heals. but mixing and maching and doing both in the same fight (i.e. no break allowing for the changing of gear)? i don't think so. perhaps bodh or someone more advanced in progression or more experienced in pvp has seen it done and has some ideas for you, but at 70 ret and healing are so gear dependent i don't see it working. before spell damage was taken off of ret gear, maybe it would have worked a little better. but right now ret and holy are complete opposites. like tommy said shockadin is really the only possible way, and thats even been somewhat done away with in 2.4...
again if someone has seen this work though, feel free to prove me wrong lol. it just seems like paladins have been made to specialize or be useless.
again if someone has seen this work though, feel free to prove me wrong lol. it just seems like paladins have been made to specialize or be useless.
Shockadins are fail. Hey look I have mediocre burst damage that is good against guys in blues but in real pvp fails cause it is extremely mana intensive and reliant on 10 second coold downs. Not to mention the build nerfs healing.
How ret was lvl 60, and now with lvl 70 is an entirely different beast. New stats, new focuses, new talent builds and the same for other classes.
They have seen buffs that make them MUCH MUCH more viable now but still you need gear. Also you need to have some macros, raid ui with the ability to see and cleanse within .25 seconds. I see a lot of Ret in arena and BG right now and while I am sure a lot of them thing they are the slip nip snizzle sh'it they are pretty bad.
How ret was lvl 60, and now with lvl 70 is an entirely different beast. New stats, new focuses, new talent builds and the same for other classes.
They have seen buffs that make them MUCH MUCH more viable now but still you need gear. Also you need to have some macros, raid ui with the ability to see and cleanse within .25 seconds. I see a lot of Ret in arena and BG right now and while I am sure a lot of them thing they are the slip nip snizzle sh'it they are pretty bad.
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
Not to mention you can't "support" anyone with a crap load of AP and crit.
When I did the Ret thing trying to farm BGs for some honor to get a damn trinket I tried doing just what you described: I failed horribly. I threw some heals, my team still died, and I was left 'oom'ed to auto-attack and die. Things were better when all I did was try to burst down opponents with an occasional BoP or Cleanse, but no healing until a battle was resolved.
I have less mana and less +heal in my Ret gear than my tank gear, and trying to heal with my tank gear on was an absolute flop: what made me think it'd be different with Ret? Meh, didn't hurt to try, but I'll never make that mistake again, hehe.
When I did the Ret thing trying to farm BGs for some honor to get a damn trinket I tried doing just what you described: I failed horribly. I threw some heals, my team still died, and I was left 'oom'ed to auto-attack and die. Things were better when all I did was try to burst down opponents with an occasional BoP or Cleanse, but no healing until a battle was resolved.
I have less mana and less +heal in my Ret gear than my tank gear, and trying to heal with my tank gear on was an absolute flop: what made me think it'd be different with Ret? Meh, didn't hurt to try, but I'll never make that mistake again, hehe.
I tried shockadin for a few days (against the persuasion of CapJack, and because I'm just naturally curious) and I honestly don't see the advantage over being pure holy, especially after Blizz gave us bonus spell damage from our +healing gear since Patch 2.3 (about 1/3 of +healing is counted as +spell damage... I'm almost certain). Going shockadin wastes a lot of points in talents that really don't benefit a person who uses a sword+board since our 1H weapons don't do much more than 41.1 DPS and a lot of the ret talents you take in shockadin builds benefit slow-swinging heavy-damaging 2H weapons instead.
That said, I have yet to see a Ret build be a main healer at the same time with the same gear. Most pure ret gear has little or no bonus healing or INT boosts. But, if you use an addon like Outfitter, and carry around a spare healing set, once your group captures a node in BG's, switch out to your healing gear when you're out of combat and you're now a pretty viable spot healer. This works very well if you captured that node with a bunch of DPS guys which is usually the case.
Edited, Apr 29th 2008 7:31am by TooRetForYou
That said, I have yet to see a Ret build be a main healer at the same time with the same gear. Most pure ret gear has little or no bonus healing or INT boosts. But, if you use an addon like Outfitter, and carry around a spare healing set, once your group captures a node in BG's, switch out to your healing gear when you're out of combat and you're now a pretty viable spot healer. This works very well if you captured that node with a bunch of DPS guys which is usually the case.
Edited, Apr 29th 2008 7:31am by TooRetForYou
I fill the same way as the OP.My friend is a 70 prot pally.and watched him go farm.Takes him awhile to kill but he can pull many mobs to him.Then I watched his wife wich she is Full ret specced with full Ret gear.She was tearing it up.Walking through mobs like it was a hot knife through butter.Why its so hard for me to decide.Give up ret to survive a little better or Stay Ret and die like a war lol
Unfortuantely, you have to pick a path (i.e. spec), and walk down it. If you don't, you become less useful.
Think of it as exponential scaling. The deeper you are into one spec, your value in that spec grows exponentially. By cutting back a little on one spec, you loose a LOT.
Unless you plan to run solo (which I assume you don't becuase you mentioned that you wanted to support), just stick to one thing. Splitting it up just makes you less effective. Many people have tried to balance it out, and it just doesn't work. Your support value just goes down.
It's like those healers that try to do damage in BGs. Why?? All you are doing is wasting mana that you may need to heal with. Your butter knives and soft hitting spells will not make any difference in the outcome. Let the DPS do the damage, and you just keep them alive so they can keep dishing it out.
If you are DPS - then DPS. If you stop DPS to heal, then you are doing that much less damage, which means you are killing slower. Chances are that you need to throw out a heal because your healer is busy trying to DPS with their butter knife.
Of course, there are exceptions to this, but you don't want to set talents and gear around exceptions. That is even more of a waste.
Edited, May 1st 2008 4:18pm by YJMark
Think of it as exponential scaling. The deeper you are into one spec, your value in that spec grows exponentially. By cutting back a little on one spec, you loose a LOT.
Unless you plan to run solo (which I assume you don't becuase you mentioned that you wanted to support), just stick to one thing. Splitting it up just makes you less effective. Many people have tried to balance it out, and it just doesn't work. Your support value just goes down.
It's like those healers that try to do damage in BGs. Why?? All you are doing is wasting mana that you may need to heal with. Your butter knives and soft hitting spells will not make any difference in the outcome. Let the DPS do the damage, and you just keep them alive so they can keep dishing it out.
If you are DPS - then DPS. If you stop DPS to heal, then you are doing that much less damage, which means you are killing slower. Chances are that you need to throw out a heal because your healer is busy trying to DPS with their butter knife.
Of course, there are exceptions to this, but you don't want to set talents and gear around exceptions. That is even more of a waste.
Edited, May 1st 2008 4:18pm by YJMark
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