Hi, Stormcaller Namingway here.
I've recently decided trying the Allakhazam forums would be a decent idea, 'cause I normally use the official WoW forums ...we all know how dodgy that place is... Funny that I mention that, that was what I meant to write my thread about. See, I'm fairly new to the whole mage thing (lvl 58 as of now), and I like it so far. I'm not entirely sure if I ought to go all the way to 70, though. see, my way of knowing if I should bother any further on this character is the Official WoW forums, and the view is pretty grim there. I figure that what they claim Blizzard has done to them is irrelevant and irrational, 'cause they think themselves quite gimped.
So, basically what I'm asking here, is the mage class as gimped as the official WoW forums says it is? I don't think it could, but I don't know enough about mages to truly know.
My hope is that people here have an ounce of intelligence, unlike you-know-where... I feel pretty sure about that.
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Are Mages really all they aren't cracked up to be?Follow
42 posts
Never go to official boards and wading through the sarcasm to give my two cents I must say my mage (should hit 70 tonight) is every bit as good (and fun) as my 70 lock and better than my 70 hunter.
4 posts
Well, I'll probably go for the big seven-oh on my mage then, as I have some good faith in the mages face-melting abilities at 70. certainly a lot more fun than my priest, or my *shudders* hunter...
'Grats on getting to 70 yourself, btw!
'Grats on getting to 70 yourself, btw!
Mages are NOT gimped.
Mages are NOT overpowered.
The mage class has been one of the most balanced classes throughout the entire history of WoW, relatively. Mages always been a bit too strong of a counter against warriors, and warlocks have always been a bit too strong of a counter against mages, but otherwise, every fight against/with a mage is a fair fight.
As far as everyone saying that they're gimped, they're simply people who play the class and cry at one or both of two things:
1) They're not overpowered.
2) They're upset that warlocks outdo them in PvE DPS. (Which is a little more legitimate QQ).
If they cry over mana efficiency, they've not spec'd correctly, or geared correctly. If they cry over damage output, they've gotta make sure to use their trinkets during the fireballs of their rotation, not the scorches. If they cry over survivability, they haven't learned how to use Ice Block, Frost Nova, Ice Barrier, and Rank 1 Frostbolt effectively.
The mage could always use some fixins, but many classes could. The mage is not a terribad class in the least. It's simply been dwarfed in the past a bit by the warlock class (a kind of anything we can do, they can do better), but that shouldn't really matter. Playing a mage is radically different from most all other classes, and I think it's loads of fun.
In conclusion, no, mages are not nearly as gimped as the O-Boards say.
Mages are NOT overpowered.
The mage class has been one of the most balanced classes throughout the entire history of WoW, relatively. Mages always been a bit too strong of a counter against warriors, and warlocks have always been a bit too strong of a counter against mages, but otherwise, every fight against/with a mage is a fair fight.
As far as everyone saying that they're gimped, they're simply people who play the class and cry at one or both of two things:
1) They're not overpowered.
2) They're upset that warlocks outdo them in PvE DPS. (Which is a little more legitimate QQ).
If they cry over mana efficiency, they've not spec'd correctly, or geared correctly. If they cry over damage output, they've gotta make sure to use their trinkets during the fireballs of their rotation, not the scorches. If they cry over survivability, they haven't learned how to use Ice Block, Frost Nova, Ice Barrier, and Rank 1 Frostbolt effectively.
The mage could always use some fixins, but many classes could. The mage is not a terribad class in the least. It's simply been dwarfed in the past a bit by the warlock class (a kind of anything we can do, they can do better), but that shouldn't really matter. Playing a mage is radically different from most all other classes, and I think it's loads of fun.
In conclusion, no, mages are not nearly as gimped as the O-Boards say.
Mages are slightly worse now than they were in pre-BC but that doesn't mean they are horrible.
Mages have pretty damn good raid dps (qq set aside its up there)
They are average in pvp, only slightly more gimped than others, but that can be filled in with some practice, and skill.
They are by far one of the most fun classes to play due to how they work (kill the thing before it touches me)
And on a whole, they are just a very fun and useful class to roll.
Mages have pretty damn good raid dps (qq set aside its up there)
They are average in pvp, only slightly more gimped than others, but that can be filled in with some practice, and skill.
They are by far one of the most fun classes to play due to how they work (kill the thing before it touches me)
And on a whole, they are just a very fun and useful class to roll.
Raglu wrote:
Mages are NOT gimped.
Mages are NOT overpowered.
The mage class has been one of the most balanced classes throughout the entire history of WoW, relatively. Mages always been a bit too strong of a counter against warriors, and warlocks have always been a bit too strong of a counter against mages, but otherwise, every fight against/with a mage is a fair fight.
As far as everyone saying that they're gimped, they're simply people who play the class and cry at one or both of two things:
1) They're not overpowered.
2) They're upset that warlocks outdo them in PvE DPS. (Which is a little more legitimate QQ).
If they cry over mana efficiency, they've not spec'd correctly, or geared correctly. If they cry over damage output, they've gotta make sure to use their trinkets during the fireballs of their rotation, not the scorches. If they cry over survivability, they haven't learned how to use Ice Block, Frost Nova, Ice Barrier, and Rank 1 Frostbolt effectively.
The mage could always use some fixins, but many classes could. The mage is not a terribad class in the least. It's simply been dwarfed in the past a bit by the warlock class (a kind of anything we can do, they can do better), but that shouldn't really matter. Playing a mage is radically different from most all other classes, and I think it's loads of fun.
In conclusion, no, mages are not nearly as gimped as the O-Boards say.
Mages are NOT overpowered.
The mage class has been one of the most balanced classes throughout the entire history of WoW, relatively. Mages always been a bit too strong of a counter against warriors, and warlocks have always been a bit too strong of a counter against mages, but otherwise, every fight against/with a mage is a fair fight.
As far as everyone saying that they're gimped, they're simply people who play the class and cry at one or both of two things:
1) They're not overpowered.
2) They're upset that warlocks outdo them in PvE DPS. (Which is a little more legitimate QQ).
If they cry over mana efficiency, they've not spec'd correctly, or geared correctly. If they cry over damage output, they've gotta make sure to use their trinkets during the fireballs of their rotation, not the scorches. If they cry over survivability, they haven't learned how to use Ice Block, Frost Nova, Ice Barrier, and Rank 1 Frostbolt effectively.
The mage could always use some fixins, but many classes could. The mage is not a terribad class in the least. It's simply been dwarfed in the past a bit by the warlock class (a kind of anything we can do, they can do better), but that shouldn't really matter. Playing a mage is radically different from most all other classes, and I think it's loads of fun.
In conclusion, no, mages are not nearly as gimped as the O-Boards say.
Raglu is one of our great-mage-up-and-coming posters who always has a solid post to follow up to.
He pretty much stated what I was going to say, that Mages are not the bottom of the barrel in dps (I do 98% PvE -- raiding/instances), I consistently place in the top-5 if not 3 or even #1 spot depending on the fight compared to locks, rogues, elemental shaman, and another mage. We all fight back and forth depending on the fight mechanics, for a quick-burn fight like Shade of Akama (third boss in Black Temple) I consistently hit around 2.5k-2.8k dps and lead the charts because it is literally 30-40 seconds long, with bloodlust/drumps I would pass 3k dps.
We haven't ever really been overpowered, we have our benefits, with arguably the best crowd control in the game, balanced in 3v3 and 5v5 areans (very under-represented in 2v2) but do fairly well and few groups would turn down a knowledgable mage.
I see mages as a class where you actually have to work hard to excel at. We've all heard the jokes of hunters and locks rolling their face on the keyboard. I have both toons and yes.. that's pretty much true. But those classes can also be played well and do much better.
I feel the mage class doesn't have this type of spread in playing ability. You HAVE to play well in order to get anything done. A hunter can pop big red, stand there, and pwn. In no way can a mage do this. Every battle in PvP must be a fast, well planned, battle no matter the gear or skill involved.
By reading the wow boards you see things like, "a mage can't do this" but what they really mean is, "I, as a mage, can't do this". Like any class out there if you play well you can excel in any aspect of the game. The mage just REQUIRES you to play well. That's what makes it fun for me, and I'm sure all the other mages here.
Edited, Apr 27th 2008 1:59pm by DarkHybridX
I feel the mage class doesn't have this type of spread in playing ability. You HAVE to play well in order to get anything done. A hunter can pop big red, stand there, and pwn. In no way can a mage do this. Every battle in PvP must be a fast, well planned, battle no matter the gear or skill involved.
By reading the wow boards you see things like, "a mage can't do this" but what they really mean is, "I, as a mage, can't do this". Like any class out there if you play well you can excel in any aspect of the game. The mage just REQUIRES you to play well. That's what makes it fun for me, and I'm sure all the other mages here.
Edited, Apr 27th 2008 1:59pm by DarkHybridX
I can attest to this, I made the melee dps on the VR fight look bad when I topped chart as a 10/0/51. This must have stirred one guy's internal fortitude cos he creamed the entire raid when we did VR again. (I was 2nd though in VR lol)
By now... I have somehow managed to squeeze every single bit of dps out of my rotations, trinkets and cooldowns. Learning to do that can be a long process since cooldown burning means you will have to manage the fight the entire time and not have bad luck crap you out. For example, you run back to the wall run back in on VR hit everything then see an orb coming your way (GG).
By now... I have somehow managed to squeeze every single bit of dps out of my rotations, trinkets and cooldowns. Learning to do that can be a long process since cooldown burning means you will have to manage the fight the entire time and not have bad luck crap you out. For example, you run back to the wall run back in on VR hit everything then see an orb coming your way (GG).
The Mage class only sucks because the person behind the mage doesn't know what they're doing.
Honestly, my mage is only level 44, but I'm loving it. But when I'm on my rogue, a lot of groups for instances and stuff seem to look for a mage. They seem to be one of the most wanted classes for groups due to cc and dps. Even moreso than my rogue, it seems.
I say, take your mage to 70. The posts above gave great comments about it, and you shouldn't let the O-boards stray you away from doing what YOU want.
Like I said, the only reason why ANY class would be gimped or horrible is due to the person behind it.
Good luck on 70!
Honestly, my mage is only level 44, but I'm loving it. But when I'm on my rogue, a lot of groups for instances and stuff seem to look for a mage. They seem to be one of the most wanted classes for groups due to cc and dps. Even moreso than my rogue, it seems.
I say, take your mage to 70. The posts above gave great comments about it, and you shouldn't let the O-boards stray you away from doing what YOU want.
Like I said, the only reason why ANY class would be gimped or horrible is due to the person behind it.
Good luck on 70!
I've been reading the O-boards lately too. God they QQ a lot there lol. Literally, every other post is "Zomg take the healing from sheep!", or some other form of saying the same thing. It's crazy.
I agree with them that the healing on sheep is much, much, much more powerfull than any healers HoT (prolly even a ToL Druid decked out, not sure tho). Sheep also does something HoT won't... it gives mana back to the mob/player. Meh.
There's good points and bad for PvP and PvE Mages. I personally think that w/o healing Mages would be way OverPowered. I'm sure there would be a form of Mage stunlock: Frost Mage, Frostbolt, element... I'm sure they'd work out a way to get Shatters and sheeps in sync.
Mainly the PvP/BG/Arena Mages seem to have the main issue. Our spells have a decent casting time, where as Warlocks can fear lock you and IC DoT you up for the full fight. While Fel pup is eating your lunch. Shadow Priest basically the same issue, however they have heals. All healing classes they seem to have a problem with... I've read that Pally Flash Heals out heal the damage from Fireball? Then there's always the Bubble/heal at the end of the fight while you're at 10% MP left lol.
Maybe a good medium would be to reduce the mp/hp regen considerably. Eh, I PvE all the way. I have zero interest in PvP servers, and in BGs as long as you're not the lone wolf, stay with the pack you can get off spells and kill people. I personally don't see any point in changing it, but that's just me.
I agree with them that the healing on sheep is much, much, much more powerfull than any healers HoT (prolly even a ToL Druid decked out, not sure tho). Sheep also does something HoT won't... it gives mana back to the mob/player. Meh.
There's good points and bad for PvP and PvE Mages. I personally think that w/o healing Mages would be way OverPowered. I'm sure there would be a form of Mage stunlock: Frost Mage, Frostbolt, element... I'm sure they'd work out a way to get Shatters and sheeps in sync.
Mainly the PvP/BG/Arena Mages seem to have the main issue. Our spells have a decent casting time, where as Warlocks can fear lock you and IC DoT you up for the full fight. While Fel pup is eating your lunch. Shadow Priest basically the same issue, however they have heals. All healing classes they seem to have a problem with... I've read that Pally Flash Heals out heal the damage from Fireball? Then there's always the Bubble/heal at the end of the fight while you're at 10% MP left lol.
Maybe a good medium would be to reduce the mp/hp regen considerably. Eh, I PvE all the way. I have zero interest in PvP servers, and in BGs as long as you're not the lone wolf, stay with the pack you can get off spells and kill people. I personally don't see any point in changing it, but that's just me.
You get to make water, food, don't ever have to set your hs to a main city, and won't fall to your death during skettis dailies.
Your survivability is directly linked to your ability to play well. Solid CC, awesome cooldowns and mana gems make everything easier.
Your damage is high, and with all these perks, I don't mind having to stand on one spot to be able to keep it high. This means you won't top every chart, especially on movement-intensive fights, but on the longer fights, which generally allow more standing still, you'll be topping charts.
I enjoy having all the perks I just mentioned, along with the fact that we're very prone to dying due to minor mistakes. Keeps it fun really, at least for me.
Did we convince you yet?
Your survivability is directly linked to your ability to play well. Solid CC, awesome cooldowns and mana gems make everything easier.
Your damage is high, and with all these perks, I don't mind having to stand on one spot to be able to keep it high. This means you won't top every chart, especially on movement-intensive fights, but on the longer fights, which generally allow more standing still, you'll be topping charts.
I enjoy having all the perks I just mentioned, along with the fact that we're very prone to dying due to minor mistakes. Keeps it fun really, at least for me.
Did we convince you yet?
Raglu wrote:
and warlocks have always been a bit too strong of a counter against mages
Raglu's post, among others here, is pretty much spot-on, but I think we can add FotM ShS rogues to the "bit too strong of a counter" list. Difficult to contend with the many interrupts and anti-kiting measures coupled with quick-quick dps.
I cannot see that Mages are overpowered or gimped in any real way , i have a just level 26 mage and can deal with just about any combo of mobs that comes at me .
I have seen a mage in frost spec in the plaguelands gather same level mobs and kill up to 10 to 15 easily ( my 70 Hunter still cannot easily do that against the same mobs without losing some health ) yet he never got touched , i have seen the same guy do exactly the same in hellfire clearing the road there of all that were close enough to gather up , perhaps he is special but he sure knows his class well.
No idea what Pvp encounters are like though , but for normal ? play i think a Mage if played well is as much fun as any class and a lot more fun than some.
I have seen a mage in frost spec in the plaguelands gather same level mobs and kill up to 10 to 15 easily ( my 70 Hunter still cannot easily do that against the same mobs without losing some health ) yet he never got touched , i have seen the same guy do exactly the same in hellfire clearing the road there of all that were close enough to gather up , perhaps he is special but he sure knows his class well.
No idea what Pvp encounters are like though , but for normal ? play i think a Mage if played well is as much fun as any class and a lot more fun than some.
sandralover wrote:
I cannot see that Mages are overpowered or gimped in any real way , i have a just level 26 mage and can deal with just about any combo of mobs that comes at me .
In end game raids, we don't scale in damage quite as well as some others, though exceptional mages can still rise to the top.
Mages are so gimped.
Mages are so overpowered.
I play a Warlock, hear me whine.
Mages are so overpowered.
I play a Warlock, hear me whine.
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
want some 
with that?
with that?lol. I logged on my horde mage a few days ago to do some PvP (about all I use him for these days... that and doing the dailies for gold). I was running with my old GM who is a warrior from waaaaay back. He *still* continually moans and groans about how OP mages are. I told him to play a mage vs. a lock, then tell me how OP they are. He seemed to think mages pwn warlocks, thus proving his bias/lack of knowledge about mages.
... such a shame, other than that he's a really good guy.
... such a shame, other than that he's a really good guy.
Hehe, actually overpowerdness is a relative thing...
Are we overpowered to warriors? -Yes we are
Are we overpowered in a way, that we can easily beat any class in the game if we have some skill and gear? -No we're not.
If you wanna get convinced to play a mage you first have to be sure if you wanna invest a lot of playing time, are innovative and open-minded, and can learn form PvP-vids. If you're not intending to do any of that: DON'T LEVEL YOUR MAGE!
At least unless you like losing and being out-damaged. The mage-class, as said above, already needs some skill and gear to acomplish anything at all.
Watch some nice PvP-vids if you wanna know what good mages are capable of. You're gonna get google-eyes. Well played mages destroy nearly everything. Even those "OP" classes. The only point is that those are far easier to play close to their potential, so a beginner warlock would own a mage, while two PROs fighting each other will produce different results.
P.S. I love my mage
Are we overpowered to warriors? -Yes we are
Are we overpowered in a way, that we can easily beat any class in the game if we have some skill and gear? -No we're not.
If you wanna get convinced to play a mage you first have to be sure if you wanna invest a lot of playing time, are innovative and open-minded, and can learn form PvP-vids. If you're not intending to do any of that: DON'T LEVEL YOUR MAGE!
At least unless you like losing and being out-damaged. The mage-class, as said above, already needs some skill and gear to acomplish anything at all.
Watch some nice PvP-vids if you wanna know what good mages are capable of. You're gonna get google-eyes. Well played mages destroy nearly everything. Even those "OP" classes. The only point is that those are far easier to play close to their potential, so a beginner warlock would own a mage, while two PROs fighting each other will produce different results.
P.S. I love my mage
Scholar
38 posts
Mages are not overpowered, neither are they underpowered. It is just that they are taken for granted too often. Mages are similar to the playmakers in a football or basketball team.
1) Mages are seldom the No. 1 damage dealer in raids, but the top 30% have more mages than any other class.
2) You can't build a team around a mage, but without one, you find yourself severly compromised in many ways: food, water, crowd control, healer's bodyguard, counterspell and even portals
The question is: do you need to be number 1 in everything to be powerful, skillful and good?
1) Mages are seldom the No. 1 damage dealer in raids, but the top 30% have more mages than any other class.
2) You can't build a team around a mage, but without one, you find yourself severly compromised in many ways: food, water, crowd control, healer's bodyguard, counterspell and even portals
The question is: do you need to be number 1 in everything to be powerful, skillful and good?
4 posts
Well, this certainly does clear the path for me! to 70 it is!
My only regret is I don't have vampiric touch. Personally, I think it's a mage talent. I mean, think about it, it gives mana, which is totally what mages do with AI, evo, mana gems, and others. at least someone gets vampiric touch, and I'm grateful for that.
Hmm, with that in mind, I ought to go to the O-forums one last time, to put that in the suggestion forums. they do read those things, right?
My only regret is I don't have vampiric touch. Personally, I think it's a mage talent. I mean, think about it, it gives mana, which is totally what mages do with AI, evo, mana gems, and others. at least someone gets vampiric touch, and I'm grateful for that.
Hmm, with that in mind, I ought to go to the O-forums one last time, to put that in the suggestion forums. they do read those things, right?
Happy leveling.
Scholar
18 posts
This really makes me want to level a mage : D
7 posts
I have a level 14 mage, and it's a blast. With any class for PvP, how well you do is going to depend some on gear and a lot on skill. With my 70 warrior, wearing some epic, mostly blues, no greens, I've been utterly destroyed by mages wearing all greens. That's where skill comes into play (or in my case, lack of it lol). If you have the skill, you are more likely to win PvP. About the only way to get the skill is by doing it. I PvP a lot more on my warrior, and I do better with it now. Just go out and have fun with it, see what works for you, and decide for yourself how you feel about mages.
7 posts
I have a level 14 mage, and it's a blast. With any class for PvP, how well you do is going to depend some on gear and a lot on skill. With my 70 warrior, wearing some epic, mostly blues, no greens, I've been utterly destroyed by mages wearing all greens. That's where skill comes into play (or in my case, lack of it lol). If you have the skill, you are more likely to win PvP. About the only way to get the skill is by doing it. I PvP a lot more on my warrior, and I do better with it now. Just go out and have fun with it (I recommend dueling other classes to see how they work and what they can do), see what works for you, and decide for yourself how you feel about mages.
The thing about the mage class is that it is a bit harder to play, in my opinion, than some other classes, especially in small group PvP. You have a crapton of abilities -- the key issue is learning to play the class well enough so as to have the presence of mind to put your finger on the right ability at the right time. Now all classes have that, but a mage has a smaller margin for error, and getting to know *all* of your abilities is really a key to playing the class effectively, especially in something like the arena.
The challenge, I think, that many people have is that you can be a PvE mage and basically not use many of your abilities very often, if at all. When people who have been focused on PvEing with their mage first step into a PvP situation, they usually get hammered badly, because they are not used to thinking about using things like blink or counterspell, etc. It's a steeper learning curve for mages to transition, but there are many mages who have done it spectacularly well.
As to whether the reality of this learning curve means the class isn't balanced properly against others -- that's a tough question, and there isn't an obvious answer to it, I think.
The challenge, I think, that many people have is that you can be a PvE mage and basically not use many of your abilities very often, if at all. When people who have been focused on PvEing with their mage first step into a PvP situation, they usually get hammered badly, because they are not used to thinking about using things like blink or counterspell, etc. It's a steeper learning curve for mages to transition, but there are many mages who have done it spectacularly well.
As to whether the reality of this learning curve means the class isn't balanced properly against others -- that's a tough question, and there isn't an obvious answer to it, I think.
10 posts
My mage is the funnest thing going. I only have one problem with it:
I have Altitus.. Since I started my mage, I have made following:
50 NE Hunter
43 GN Lock
27 DR Mage (fire)
25 NE Hunter (different realm)
19 NE Priest
16 BE Pally
24 DW Pally
I am stuck at lvl 67 on my initial Gnome Mage. I find it VERY fun to play, I just feel like getting on the alts after about an hour of playing my main.
If anyone has any advice on how to fix my alt addiction please let me know.
ToJone - 67 Frost Mage - Alleria
(Does anyone else read Namingways' posts with an english accent?)
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