Because the punk in ramparts has decided not to give me his sword, I have started doing AB and AV to get enough marks and honor to get the other sword from there.
I am still fairly new at PVPing with my rogue but I have found one of the most damning strategies an opponent can utilize against me is jumping around like a kid with ADHD who just ate a pound bag of sugar. Continually jumping and ending up beside or behind me, making it so the only thing hitting them is an occasional auto attack. Sometimes I can sort of time it when they happen to jump in front of me but usually it just says they need to be in front of me. I can't gouge or KS them. I swear it's the silliest things I've seen in this game.
For giggles I even tried it out. I took my rather poorly geared hunter to AV and got sapped by a rather well geared rogue. After he took out my pet he went after me. It started to look bad but I figured if I was going to die might as well die with style so I started jumping around like an *** myself. Managed to last for a while. Ended up ice trapping him and some other alliance came along and killed him. I guess he didn't like it because he jumped me again later. Started jumping around behind and beside him and I lasted a good while. Well until a warlock dotted and feared the crap out of me.
Is there any way to combat it other than luck? The worst are freaking paladins who I get really low on health and am about KS or gouge and they just jump around until they have enough mana to either stun me or pop a heal.
It looks like it's the mechanics of the game that require a target to be pretty damn close to dead in front of you. At least that's how it seems with the jumping. If they start to mess up and jump like twice one way and twice the other each time I can sort of time my attack but man it's annoying.
Also, I have about 1k honor and need like another 11.5k so I will be doing a lot more AV since I am 60 and that makes me the top dog there. Should I stay with combat if I am going to be doing BGs for a while or maybe respec?
Thanks again.
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Jumping - A Combat Stratagy??Follow
Just my observation...
I have seen that as well in BGs on my rogue (who was going to be a 19 twink before I decided to level him). I used to back up when they started that crap.
Also, for yourself, the jump does nothing, but moving around really works well (running through a mage casting frostbolt does the same as jumping through him). If it has some wierd psychological benefits....meh, I dunno. I'm more of an economy person and would stick with juking/running to someone's side/through them if they are doing damage to me.
Edit: Crippling poison makes em jump almost in 1 place.... have fun with that! ;-)
Edited, Apr 25th 2008 11:44am by ktangent
I have seen that as well in BGs on my rogue (who was going to be a 19 twink before I decided to level him). I used to back up when they started that crap.
Also, for yourself, the jump does nothing, but moving around really works well (running through a mage casting frostbolt does the same as jumping through him). If it has some wierd psychological benefits....meh, I dunno. I'm more of an economy person and would stick with juking/running to someone's side/through them if they are doing damage to me.
Edit: Crippling poison makes em jump almost in 1 place.... have fun with that! ;-)
Edited, Apr 25th 2008 11:44am by ktangent
It's the whole strategy of, you can't hit a moving target as easily as a stationary one. What I usually do is blind them, or use some other type of stun. I've gotten to the point where I can time it really well and easily stun them to attack them to death.
Like I said, "you can't hit a moving target as easily as a stationary one... so go for the second best thing... make them stationary."
Like I said, "you can't hit a moving target as easily as a stationary one... so go for the second best thing... make them stationary."
You should probably stop keyboard turning. Retarded kangaroos are much easier to deal with when you have familiar, efficient keybinds and fast reflexes with a mouse.
And MH crippling poison until you get shiv, easiest way to ensure it stays on the target.
Edited, Apr 25th 2008 11:00am by Banatu
And MH crippling poison until you get shiv, easiest way to ensure it stays on the target.
Edited, Apr 25th 2008 11:00am by Banatu
Jumping has the advantage that you can be jumping through someone from their front side but still be facing them the entire time. It's a slight advantage over just running circles around them with your mouse. And as a melee class especially, you better well get used to keybinding everything and using your mouse to turn, or you don't stand a chance.
I tried moving back and that sort of worked. Sometimes they were just jumping with me as I moved back.
I had mind numbing MH and crippling OH during much of the BG because I was going after casters. Usually it's on my MH but since I was actually hunting casters the numbing seemed to land sooner when I had it MH. The casters will jump around as well so I will try to always use crippling MH in BGs.
I generally only mouse turn when I have autorun on but I guess I don't think of it that much when I am in combat.
What are the big things to bind to the mouse? I know some mice have a lot more buttons than others so I guess just in general what are the ones most important? Just FYI, I think my mouse has 5 buttons beyond the left middle right ones. Not totally sure since I'm at work but this one has 8 buttons total and I think mine at home is similar.
I broke my hand a few years ago so every once in a while, my finger over the right button will sort of spasm and click down but the way the mouse is designed, a lot of options are on the left side near the thumb.
Regarding mice, how many of you use a cordless mouse? I have one and it worked fine up until a few weeks ago. Sometimes it doesn't seem to move the curser like it should. The mouse is one of those rechargeable ones you set in the charging station so there are no batteries to replace. It was nice getting away from the cord but I worry that there may be some issues with cordless that may ***** me over.
I had mind numbing MH and crippling OH during much of the BG because I was going after casters. Usually it's on my MH but since I was actually hunting casters the numbing seemed to land sooner when I had it MH. The casters will jump around as well so I will try to always use crippling MH in BGs.
I generally only mouse turn when I have autorun on but I guess I don't think of it that much when I am in combat.
What are the big things to bind to the mouse? I know some mice have a lot more buttons than others so I guess just in general what are the ones most important? Just FYI, I think my mouse has 5 buttons beyond the left middle right ones. Not totally sure since I'm at work but this one has 8 buttons total and I think mine at home is similar.
I broke my hand a few years ago so every once in a while, my finger over the right button will sort of spasm and click down but the way the mouse is designed, a lot of options are on the left side near the thumb.
Regarding mice, how many of you use a cordless mouse? I have one and it worked fine up until a few weeks ago. Sometimes it doesn't seem to move the curser like it should. The mouse is one of those rechargeable ones you set in the charging station so there are no batteries to replace. It was nice getting away from the cord but I worry that there may be some issues with cordless that may ***** me over.
How long exactly are you charging it? Also, how long did you charge it when you first got it?
As was mentioned before, mouse turning will be your best friend. With mouse turning, and a decent latency, you can always be facing your target. This is a must in PvP.
xNocturnalSunx wrote:
How long exactly are you charging it? Also, how long did you charge it when you first got it?
Full charge the first time. I just put it in it's cradle and it will be fully charaged the next day. Sometimes I try to let the battery wear down a good deal before I charge it again. The odd thing is I ran into a similar problem with the one here at work. They weren't bought at the same time and aren't even the same type. I had wondered if maybe there was a windows update or something that caused issues with it.
No clue why. It's working at the moment but who knows.
You're one of those people that I know are a keyboard turner so I just dance behind you and watch you turn around slooooooowly to hit me.
"IF I TURN WITH MY MOUSE, HOW DO I CLICK REND?"
Talos - I don't know that the issues are always related, but I've heard from enough hardcore gamers condemnations of sync issues involving lag on wireless keyboards and mice that I typically avoid them. (just for gaming at least) Maybe it works fine for some people, just what I've heard.
Overlord Theophany wrote:
You're one of those people that I know are a keyboard turner so I just dance behind you and watch you turn around slooooooowly to hit me.
"IF I TURN WITH MY MOUSE, HOW DO I CLICK REND?"
http://www.darklegacycomics.com/107.html Just for the people who need the reference.
HawaiianPunch wrote:
Talos - I don't know that the issues are always related, but I've heard from enough hardcore gamers condemnations of sync issues involving lag on wireless keyboards and mice that I typically avoid them. (just for gaming at least) Maybe it works fine for some people, just what I've heard.
My wireless mouse has no lag issues. I don't use a wireless keyboard, though the one on my mac has occasional spouts where it garbles what I'm typing.
I use a G15 on my PC, so I wouldn't really know.
Overlord Theophany wrote:
You're one of those people that I know are a keyboard turner so I just dance behind you and watch you turn around slooooooowly to hit me.
"IF I TURN WITH MY MOUSE, HOW DO I CLICK REND?"
NO! (maybe)
Well I'm not much of a clicker unless it's something that I don't use very often and I don't have it hot keyed.
It may have been a while since you leveled up a character but your average NPC mob you level up on isn't exactly as crafty as a player. It may be a shocker to you (sarcasm) but, strategies change a lot between PVE and PVP.
May I ask, do you at least play in third person or are you one of those that plays in first person?
Also you sadden me. On the general forum, I expect you to just come in and mock someone. On the Rogue forum, often you come in and mock someone but at least offer something helpful. Your not trying today I guess.
HawaiianPunch wrote:
Talos - I don't know that the issues are always related, but I've heard from enough hardcore gamers condemnations of sync issues involving lag on wireless keyboards and mice that I typically avoid them. (just for gaming at least) Maybe it works fine for some people, just what I've heard.
That's kind of what I was wondering. I still have a wired mouse around. When it's really acting up I break it out again.
Overlord Theophany wrote:
My wireless mouse has no lag issues. I don't use a wireless keyboard, though the one on my mac has occasional spouts where it garbles what I'm typing.
I don't have a wireless keyboard, the mouse is a logitech mx revolution. Had it since I started playing WoW about 6 months and last week was the first time it started doing it.
Edited, Apr 25th 2008 6:47pm by MrTalos
#15REDACTED,
Posted: Apr 25 2008 at 3:36 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Nah, I play in third person. Most good PvPers do. It allows you to see more of the playing field.
Theo wrote:
so I'm really just tired
Slacker.
But to the OP: I noticed early on that random jumping only seems to work on those BG participants geared for PvE like myself (casual BG or beginning PvP). Basically, if they're new to BGs, then they're probably slower on the uptakeand can't deal with fast movement as well. Experienced players will strategically jump (hunter straff-turn-wingclip anyone?) but for the most part they busy themselves with killing rather than jumping all around like a jack-rabbit.
And, really, mouse-turning pwns all. Bind your abilities, learn to mouse-turn and be happier for it. Guaranteed.
Do people really play WoW in first person???
TherionSaysWhat wrote:
Theo wrote:
so I'm really just tired
Slacker.
Oi, click my user name and click on my journal. Look at what I've started to do for all of you rogues.
I'm putting all of my resources out there so every rogue can be as knowledgeable as me.
Theo wrote:
Oi, click my user name and click on my journal.
Holy crap. I stand corrected. You're only slacking on the flames then. So, get on with it. :P
Really, that info should be added to the FAQ as well in the hopes that new forum users might..... ugh, who am I kidding? Nobody reads the stickies.
Great job, rate ups ftw!
Since your a hunter heres why you jump. and your way of jumping around is decent, but heres what you do. you jump in the air, and click both mouse buttons to turn 180 degreens, hit wing clip, then turn back to facing forward, BEFORE LANDING. this lets you keep running away while slowing the enemy. Keep, running, then jump, spin, and use arcane shot or the poison sting or anything instant. then use a concussion attack, turn around, and fire off some steady/auto attacks.
this is how you kite. slow the enemy, sic your pet on them, run away and attack while your doing it. they have 2 choices, they hit your pet, which means you can stop moving and turn around and unload on them, or they go after you, in which case your pet is going to maul them. if its a SHS rogue have a trap ready and if you see a shadow appear behind you (like 1/2 second reaction time) drop a frost trap.
now as a rogue, jumping can be very good if your mutilate as you can run, jump, spin, and spam mutilate to get it to land. (doesnt work if you have any kind of lag though). the jump strategy can be useful to jump, turn, and do a gouge or something while an enemy is chasing you.
its teh gewd
this is how you kite. slow the enemy, sic your pet on them, run away and attack while your doing it. they have 2 choices, they hit your pet, which means you can stop moving and turn around and unload on them, or they go after you, in which case your pet is going to maul them. if its a SHS rogue have a trap ready and if you see a shadow appear behind you (like 1/2 second reaction time) drop a frost trap.
now as a rogue, jumping can be very good if your mutilate as you can run, jump, spin, and spam mutilate to get it to land. (doesnt work if you have any kind of lag though). the jump strategy can be useful to jump, turn, and do a gouge or something while an enemy is chasing you.
its teh gewd
Overlord Theophany wrote:
You're one of those people that I know are a keyboard turner so I just dance behind you and watch you turn around slooooooowly to hit me.
"IF I TURN WITH MY MOUSE, HOW DO I CLICK REND?"
Haha.
Ya ... It's funny when people turn w/ their keyboards in L70 BGs. I'm behind you again before you're half way turned...
Quote:
You're one of those people that I know are a keyboard turner so I just dance behind you and watch you turn around slooooooowly to hit me.
"IF I TURN WITH MY MOUSE, HOW DO I CLICK REND?"
"IF I TURN WITH MY MOUSE, HOW DO I CLICK REND?"
looool! i kited a warrior yesterday with that, while it was taking him a minute to turn around, i was strafing around him and he couldn't dodge me! lol
Overlord Theophany wrote:
But we've seen this kind of thread a bunch of times, so I'm really just tired of replying the same thing over and over to it.
I apologize for asking questions that have been asked over and over. I have actually read your guide and noobles. I often look at his for talent ideas. I had even seen the post about key bindings long ago but bongos and I didn't get along well. I've tried it again but some of still doesn't play nice. I had high hopes for your PVP guide but that was geared more for Arena (which you clearly do) so it wasn't exactly what I was looking for. Some of the basic ideas are the same, I guess, but still didn't help answer my questions.
Being on a PVP server, many of the things you may take for granted that a player knows regarding PVP... Well I, coming from PVE, am not that familiar with. It's very easy for me to have read the guides over the months but, until I actually do it, it doesn't mean much. On paper, PVP is pretty straight forward stuff. Shouldn't be too much involved with it.. on paper. Not so in practice. The clear and simple tactics that I read go out the window when you have have another person to fight. Unless, of course, they are also new at PVP. Then they will probably be following the same general ideas that I am. It leads to questions. Things generally aren't that bad on my hunter. Much is the pet and me trying to help the pet to f*ck up the other player but rogue is all me and all up close and personal.
I am trying to improve. I will never be that great at PVP. Just the fact that I don't like it much means I will never have the enthusiasm other players have. I do think it can be fun. Well the idea of it at least. In practice it's not to much fun for me. I would gladly not taint your rogue class with my less than stellar PVP skills if I had a choice. Blizz seems to want to force me to PVP for gear. I don't appear to have a lot of options.
I did try and steer with the mouse more during battle and that was OK I guess but I haven't grown accustomed to it yet so it's not second nature. I even decided to try to bind the buttons to my mouse again. Still not a big fan of bongos handling of the bars at times. It would be nice if I could set it to use different bindings when I am stealthed but so far that doesn't appear to be possible. Could easily be something I am missing.
Jumpers still annoy me but turning with the mouse I do a little better. I did jinx myself in another thread commenting that my latency was now not over 150 so now it's closer to 300 all the time. Seems to make it that much more of a challenge to get them because when they are in front of me on my screen, they are probably somewhere else as far as the servers are concerned.
Edited, Apr 28th 2008 11:04am by MrTalos
Jumping players is not as much of a concern when you (a) cripple them and (b) run at sub-100ms latency.
Jordster, Assassin Reject wrote:
Jumping players is not as much of a concern when you (a) cripple them and (b) run at sub-100ms latency.
When crippling does proc it can actually be funny to see that jumping player suddenly just start creeping around.
I am not sure that I have ever gotten sub-100ms except when I get 0 but I also get 1000 fps for a seconds as soon as I log into a character as well. Was really enjoying the 150ms but that seems to have been a fluke ; ;
MrTalos wrote:
Jordster, Assassin Reject wrote:
Jumping players is not as much of a concern when you (a) cripple them and (b) run at sub-100ms latency.
When crippling does proc it can actually be funny to see that jumping player suddenly just start creeping around.
I am not sure that I have ever gotten sub-100ms except when I get 0 but I also get 1000 fps for a seconds as soon as I log into a character as well. Was really enjoying the 150ms but that seems to have been a fluke ; ;
At 70, you can Shiv a Cripple!
My usual opener is CS-HemoHemo-KS-Hemo ... and then if crip hasn't proc'd I Shiv it. It costs 35 energy, but it applies the poison every time, does ~250 damage (can crit of course) and gives a combo point. Then slice n' dice and GOGO DPS! GOod luck "jumping" at 30% movement speed =D
Hi MrTalos.
Here is keybinds guide again by Eonsprinter:
http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/class.html?wclass=4;mid=1190056079204849580;page=1
It's v. nice.
Also, here is Bongos for Dummies page:
http://code.google.com/p/tullamods/wiki/Bongos2
Maybe it's bothersome, but; Shmii's opinion is: Bongos is worth learning!
http://code.google.com/p/tullamods/downloads/detail?name=Bongos3%201.0.zip&can=2&q= is latest version.
Please ask if questions remain, PM is fine too.
Here is keybinds guide again by Eonsprinter:
http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/class.html?wclass=4;mid=1190056079204849580;page=1
It's v. nice.
Also, here is Bongos for Dummies page:
http://code.google.com/p/tullamods/wiki/Bongos2
Maybe it's bothersome, but; Shmii's opinion is: Bongos is worth learning!
http://code.google.com/p/tullamods/downloads/detail?name=Bongos3%201.0.zip&can=2&q= is latest version.
Please ask if questions remain, PM is fine too.
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