Working on gearing up an elemental shaman. I have a couple questions though. I read once somewhere a while back(couldnt find it again) that for elemental shamans spell haste does nothing until u can fit 4 LBs between the chain lightning cooldown. Is this correct, and if so, how much haste does that require? And to finish this off at what point should i stop worrying about crit and start looking for haste gear? atm i have about 30% crit(talents included). is this enough to start looking at spell haste?
Thank you for your expertise.
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elemental crit......or haste?Follow
I think the 4/1 spell rotation analysis is from a post in Elitist Jerks.
Your question is good, how much haste do we need to achieve that?
BTW, I have another n00bish question, does the info show on the character screen already take into account our talents? Or are those purely from gear?
Your question is good, how much haste do we need to achieve that?
BTW, I have another n00bish question, does the info show on the character screen already take into account our talents? Or are those purely from gear?
Quote:
BTW, I have another n00bish question, does the info show on the character screen already take into account our talents? Or are those purely from gear?
Gear.
Sir Exodus the Cheesemaker wrote:
Quote:
"All this talk of vaginas is making me thirsty."
off the top of my head LBs shoot normaly at a speed of 2 seconds, with CL having a CD of 6 seconds that makes 3/1 ratio, to fit 4 lbs into a 6 seconds you need LBs shooting at a speed of 1.5, aka 25%.
so the way haste works it is a little bit less then 16 haste for 1%, meaning 160 haste makes about 10%, 320 haste is 20%, and 400 haste is 25%. this is a very hard number to reach.
Is this impossible... i want to say no, but the amount of crit you would lose is quite a bit since you would have to sacrafice any yellow sockets for haste, and the amount of time effort and gold you will spend i am sure will be a great amount.
Lets look at what gear easiest to get is out there to use as stepping stones for this goal...
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34935 34 haste 1 yellow socket
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34933 51 haste 1 yellow socket
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34934 38 haste 1 yellow and blue socket
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34604 18 haste
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33970 33 haste
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=35319 21 haste 1 yellow socket
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=35320 30 haste
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=35326 40 haste
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=35321 16 haste
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33334 17 haste
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33588 25 haste
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33974 25 haste
A total of 348 (52 short from our gestimated number (about 22%)
but wait we have sockets woot...
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=35761#comments 10 spell haste each
we have 5 sockets this brings us too...398
now i know i said about 16 but i round up, this should be enough to get 25% haste but you may need to shave some haste since it is probably slightly over...
this actualy has not covered all your armor i think this leaves you with 1 trinket, 1 ring, helmet, and boots (i may be wrong lol)
at this point you can fill trinket and ring with whatever you prefer (lots of good ones out there to pick, and for helm and boots I suggest these, since your going all out for crit these are easiest to get and can give you back some of your neglected crit and spell dmg:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32476
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33537
for helm i suggest this socket
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34220
this means fit in 2 blue gems, one on your helm on on your boots i would suggest these:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32215#created-by x2
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32218 x1
fun times gonna figure out the bonus spell dmg from all this now...
Edited, Apr 25th 2008 4:25am by jmfmb
so the way haste works it is a little bit less then 16 haste for 1%, meaning 160 haste makes about 10%, 320 haste is 20%, and 400 haste is 25%. this is a very hard number to reach.
Is this impossible... i want to say no, but the amount of crit you would lose is quite a bit since you would have to sacrafice any yellow sockets for haste, and the amount of time effort and gold you will spend i am sure will be a great amount.
Lets look at what gear easiest to get is out there to use as stepping stones for this goal...
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34935 34 haste 1 yellow socket
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34933 51 haste 1 yellow socket
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34934 38 haste 1 yellow and blue socket
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34604 18 haste
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33970 33 haste
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=35319 21 haste 1 yellow socket
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=35320 30 haste
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=35326 40 haste
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=35321 16 haste
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33334 17 haste
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33588 25 haste
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33974 25 haste
A total of 348 (52 short from our gestimated number (about 22%)
but wait we have sockets woot...
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=35761#comments 10 spell haste each
we have 5 sockets this brings us too...398
now i know i said about 16 but i round up, this should be enough to get 25% haste but you may need to shave some haste since it is probably slightly over...
this actualy has not covered all your armor i think this leaves you with 1 trinket, 1 ring, helmet, and boots (i may be wrong lol)
at this point you can fill trinket and ring with whatever you prefer (lots of good ones out there to pick, and for helm and boots I suggest these, since your going all out for crit these are easiest to get and can give you back some of your neglected crit and spell dmg:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32476
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33537
for helm i suggest this socket
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34220
this means fit in 2 blue gems, one on your helm on on your boots i would suggest these:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32215#created-by x2
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32218 x1
fun times gonna figure out the bonus spell dmg from all this now...
Edited, Apr 25th 2008 4:25am by jmfmb
for good dmg i would use these items for trinket and ring easy to get:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29370
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30667
unless i missed anything thats a grand total of 911 unbuffed spell dmg (not too bad)
with totem oil flask and food you can push 1157 (pretty dang sexy)
but crit will be pretty terrible I want to say somewhere between 20-25% with talents
Edited, Apr 25th 2008 4:35am by jmfmb
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29370
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30667
unless i missed anything thats a grand total of 911 unbuffed spell dmg (not too bad)
with totem oil flask and food you can push 1157 (pretty dang sexy)
but crit will be pretty terrible I want to say somewhere between 20-25% with talents
Edited, Apr 25th 2008 4:35am by jmfmb
not sure if all my numbers are perfect (should be close), but I would NOT suggest doing all this unless you have 2 pallies around (one for BoS one for BoW) and a shadow priest, a build like this may ever require a moonkin to help up your crit.
If your alchemy maybe you can get that new trinket that gives 60ish spell dmg and the stronger potions since a build like this may need to pop potions like candy, although I will admit shooting LBs at the speed of 1.5 seconds is something to be desired...
just noticed I forgot to add in a totem to use, I almost wanna say go with one to decrease cost of LBs by 25 mana or the totem to get more dmg out of your LBs, you don't need the haste proc totem... ever...
see what i do when i am bored... this took so much time lol...
I think it is safe to say many wont reach this, and there probably are other ways of reaching this but i tried to put the easiest gear to get to achieve this.
hope you enjoy, btw imo haste is good even before this, just depends on the situation, and all haste gear makes you sac crit so keep that in mind
If your alchemy maybe you can get that new trinket that gives 60ish spell dmg and the stronger potions since a build like this may need to pop potions like candy, although I will admit shooting LBs at the speed of 1.5 seconds is something to be desired...
just noticed I forgot to add in a totem to use, I almost wanna say go with one to decrease cost of LBs by 25 mana or the totem to get more dmg out of your LBs, you don't need the haste proc totem... ever...
see what i do when i am bored... this took so much time lol...
I think it is safe to say many wont reach this, and there probably are other ways of reaching this but i tried to put the easiest gear to get to achieve this.
hope you enjoy, btw imo haste is good even before this, just depends on the situation, and all haste gear makes you sac crit so keep that in mind
Just fyi, you need 33% haste to drop a 2-second cast to 1.5sec, not 25%.
newcast = basecast/(1 + haste%)
1.5sec = 2/(1 + haste%)
haste% = .33
NOT
newcast = basecast*(1-haste%)
1.5sec = 2sec * (1-haste%)
haste% = .25
At 15.76haste/%, that's 520 to get it perfectly aligned.
Also, 4/1 rotations don't need a perfect 1.5-sec cast on LB. The formula for finding out how much haste you need to make a 4/1 pull ahead of 3/1 is
(1.5L - 2C)/(-6C) = H
Where L is LB damage, C is CL damage, and H is haste rating.
newcast = basecast/(1 + haste%)
1.5sec = 2/(1 + haste%)
haste% = .33
NOT
newcast = basecast*(1-haste%)
1.5sec = 2sec * (1-haste%)
haste% = .25
At 15.76haste/%, that's 520 to get it perfectly aligned.
Also, 4/1 rotations don't need a perfect 1.5-sec cast on LB. The formula for finding out how much haste you need to make a 4/1 pull ahead of 3/1 is
(1.5L - 2C)/(-6C) = H
Where L is LB damage, C is CL damage, and H is haste rating.
lol really? why is that for a 2 second cast I am so confused can you further explain? does haste work differently as far as percent it knocks off?
this is very interesting.
i knew it was slightly less then 16 rating for each percent, just trying to figure out why .5 of a 2.0 spell is 33%, does it factor in casting time before talents adjust the cast speed?
if this is true it really seems to make haste a bit less desirable for shaman.
Edited, Apr 25th 2008 5:09pm by jmfmb
this is very interesting.
i knew it was slightly less then 16 rating for each percent, just trying to figure out why .5 of a 2.0 spell is 33%, does it factor in casting time before talents adjust the cast speed?
if this is true it really seems to make haste a bit less desirable for shaman.
Edited, Apr 25th 2008 5:09pm by jmfmb
for some reason it seems you are right, it is quite confusing to me but for some reason 400 haste only drops you down to 1.6 cast speed (still pretty sexy) but I am now confused how haste works, I was under the impresion that a flat out knock off a total percent would knock off that much, but so far this is not true based on this spell haste calculator I found:
http://oneroguesjourney.com/spell-haste-calculator/
as you can see 400 spell haste with a 2 second spell put you down to 1.5939086294416245 casting time, where 520 as mentioned puts you down to 1.5023923444976077 casting time, very interesting.
http://oneroguesjourney.com/spell-haste-calculator/
as you can see 400 spell haste with a 2 second spell put you down to 1.5939086294416245 casting time, where 520 as mentioned puts you down to 1.5023923444976077 casting time, very interesting.
Wow guys thanks for the input. Very interesting conversation. Has anyone here actually heard of someone achieving this 4/1 rotation?
It doesnt seem very practical.
It doesnt seem very practical.
with that much haste I wouldn't bother with CL ever to be honest, but ppl do use a 4/1 ratio to save mana since it is much cheaper then a 3/1 ratio in general.
The thing is with that much haste you lose so much crit you will have a hard time saving mana, but your LB dps will be so high you wont need it anyhow unless you needed to dps some aoe a bit.
I was also thinking, with that much haste, the quag's eye and skycaller totem might actually be kind of nice.
anyhow I am trying to push about 150-160 for my shaman and will be happy with that I think.
The thing is with that much haste you lose so much crit you will have a hard time saving mana, but your LB dps will be so high you wont need it anyhow unless you needed to dps some aoe a bit.
I was also thinking, with that much haste, the quag's eye and skycaller totem might actually be kind of nice.
anyhow I am trying to push about 150-160 for my shaman and will be happy with that I think.
WeakenedShadow, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
Quote:
BTW, I have another n00bish question, does the info show on the character screen already take into account our talents? Or are those purely from gear?
Gear.
That depends on what the talents do. Unrelenting Storm's bonus shows up, Mental Quickness's bonus shows up, Thundering Strikes will show up, Shield Spec/Anticipation/Toughness will all show up. That's because these all improve general stats, rather than ones that specifically boost the crit chance of certain spells and the healing power of heal spells.
Note that talents which increase one's hit chance does NOT show up on the character sheet, however.
Quote:
lol really? why is that for a 2 second cast I am so confused can you further explain? does haste work differently as far as percent it knocks off?
100% haste does not mean it casts 100% faster (instant cast), but that you get 100% more casts in the same amount of time (100% haste = half the casting speed). That's why 2sec->1.5sec is 33% haste, as I showed with the math in my first post. Your get 33% more casts in a set period of time.
A 4/1 rotation isn't easier on mana, it's a lot harder on mana. You need a shadow priest and possibly JoW up to keep it up for the full length of a boss (of course, by the time you're in a position to do a 4/1, that shouldn't be an issue). As yes, people do 4/1, because it's higher damage once you've got the gear to support it.
Edited, Apr 26th 2008 3:52pm by lsfreak
i see that is interesting, what do you think suggested haste is for a shaman then, a goal I guess, because I do like haste lol
so im having a bit of trouble handling fights longer than 5 of 6 minutes without potting like a ****. my crits at almost 30% , bout a 8.3k mana pool and cant quite remember what my mp5 is, something over 200(counting water shield). Is this the norm for Ele's? or should i be lookin for more mp5? basically im having trouble keeping any rotation in(because mana bar is lacking), just LB spam on some of the longer fights. Is it just normal for us on longer fights to drop a rotation? or downgrading to something like a 5/1 rotation?
Maybe is my crit percentage lacking?
From my experience ele shamans have some of the best dmg out there (kara/gruuls lvl of gear).
I can beat almost anybody with equivlent gear and can stay very close to people geared much better.
Does this slow down?
Maybe is my crit percentage lacking?
From my experience ele shamans have some of the best dmg out there (kara/gruuls lvl of gear).
I can beat almost anybody with equivlent gear and can stay very close to people geared much better.
Does this slow down?
Lowgo wrote:
so im having a bit of trouble handling fights longer than 5 of 6 minutes without potting like a ****. my crits at almost 30% , bout a 8.3k mana pool and cant quite remember what my mp5 is, something over 200(counting water shield). Is this the norm for Ele's? or should i be lookin for more mp5? basically im having trouble keeping any rotation in(because mana bar is lacking), just LB spam on some of the longer fights. Is it just normal for us on longer fights to drop a rotation? or downgrading to something like a 5/1 rotation?
Maybe is my crit percentage lacking?
From my experience ele shamans have some of the best dmg out there (kara/gruuls lvl of gear).
I can beat almost anybody with equivlent gear and can stay very close to people geared much better.
Does this slow down?
Maybe is my crit percentage lacking?
From my experience ele shamans have some of the best dmg out there (kara/gruuls lvl of gear).
I can beat almost anybody with equivlent gear and can stay very close to people geared much better.
Does this slow down?
I don't actually play an elemental shaman at that level, but I'd hazard a guess and say that if you really can't keep up a 3xLB, 1xCL rotation, perhaps you should simply drop the Chain Lightning. Chain Lightning is more DPS, but it's less DPM. If you've got two or three potential targets with it, then you have a great chance of proccing Elemental Focus, but if you've only the boss to hit, you might be better off altogether dropping Chain Lightning from the rotation.
However, don't hold me to that, since I've got no real experience.
Yea, dropping CL is your best option. Though if you're in raids, "potting like a ****" should be what you do if it allows you to keep up more damage, you're there to DPS so you try to maximize that. I'm finally to the point where my gear supports only having to go 1-2 mana pots + fiend per kill, rather than 3-4 (though I still run with 40-60 mana pots on me at all times, just in case). Make sure you're with a shadow priest (our motto is "we pot so you don't have to"), and a ret pally with Jow helps too :d
Been playing around with changing the amount of haste I use. As haste goes up mana goes down faster. Did a kara badge run the other day, So on prince I just spam lb perfect infernal's didn't even need to move. I had to pot 3 times with my hast gear on. Recount had my lb at 27% crit for the encounter DPS 1300. Now in my crit gear dps is usually around 1100-1200 but i may need to pot only once. Assumeing the same group make ups. Right now I think i got it where I want it for the current content. If you guys could take a look at my build and let me know what you think. I usually tank so shammy is usually farming toon. But did raid spec him.
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