I've been working on getting my holy paladin up to snuff - he has +1250 healing, 99 mp5 with blesing of wisdom, 13% spell crit (base).
I was the healer in Heroic Sethekk yesterday and in both boss fights I had a lot of issues healing the whole team while keeping the tank alive. Whenever I had to heal just the tank or myself I was doing great, but once the whole team started taking damage all at once I could not pull off heals quick enough to get to everyone. I use Healbot so all I do is click-heal, but even then group heals were a chore.
I use mainly flash of light to top everyone off, and I usually use a "heal tank-heal a group mate - heal the tank again - heal another group mate - back to healing tank" sequence so that the tank is never too low on health. I try to avoid using holy light for group heals unless someone's super low because of it's longer casting time, and I use holy shock occassionally for a quick pick-me-up.
Does anyone else have issues with group heals and if not, what should I do differently?
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It can be tricky for a paladin to heal the whole group. But it's not impossible.
What I usually do in heroics, is that when the whole group takes damage, I use divine Illumination (Holy tree talent, all spells cost 50% less mana for 15 seconds) and use Holy Light for a short while to heal all who are low on hp and Flash of Light on those who aren't so low.
Those heroic boss fights don't last long, so I don't think you would run OOM too easily.
Armoried your toon- what's up with your spec?
Respec for more effective healing! - Pick up Light's grace and Divine Illumination from Holy tree.
What I usually do in heroics, is that when the whole group takes damage, I use divine Illumination (Holy tree talent, all spells cost 50% less mana for 15 seconds) and use Holy Light for a short while to heal all who are low on hp and Flash of Light on those who aren't so low.
Those heroic boss fights don't last long, so I don't think you would run OOM too easily.
Armoried your toon- what's up with your spec?
Respec for more effective healing! - Pick up Light's grace and Divine Illumination from Holy tree.
I agree with Erethia.
Also, like you said, Paladins have a hard time with AoE damage. Your best bet is to tell the group to make sure to use their healing pots and bandage themselves. Use Blessing of Protection to help out DPSers. Also, have them avoid the damage if possible (i.e. understand the boss strategies). Finally, if another person has healing capabilities (i.e. druid, shammy, or priest), ask them to help off-heal.
OK - one more - try to avoid using Holy Shock to heal. It is a phenomenal mana drain.
Your MP5 is low too. Try and get it cranked up a bit.
Also, like you said, Paladins have a hard time with AoE damage. Your best bet is to tell the group to make sure to use their healing pots and bandage themselves. Use Blessing of Protection to help out DPSers. Also, have them avoid the damage if possible (i.e. understand the boss strategies). Finally, if another person has healing capabilities (i.e. druid, shammy, or priest), ask them to help off-heal.
OK - one more - try to avoid using Holy Shock to heal. It is a phenomenal mana drain.
Your MP5 is low too. Try and get it cranked up a bit.
Yeah I'm shockadin right now. Good for soloing, not as great for healing. But I still managed to keep the whole group alive thru all the trash pulls, but boss fights really taxed me. I rarely ran outta mana, though.
If you took the Light's grace talent I would have said make sure it's up and heal your group with downranked HL if necessary. Also, depending on the amount of spike damage the boss deals, I often throw a max rank HL at the tank and make sure he is at full health and FoL the group, finish off with another max rank at the tank to bring him back up to health. That's risky though and should only be used on certain bosses.
I have to ask the OP a couple of questions before I can add my own input.
1. Did you give the tank Blessing of Light? Doing this can drastically cut down your mana cost ss your heals will be a tad more powerful.
2. Did you give the DPSers Blessing of Salvation? While most DPS will cry for Might or Kings giving them Salvation allows them to pick up a bit on the DPS without fear of pulling threat which means you will not have to heal them as much.
3. Do you have capable CC? Everyone has grouped with that Huntard who leaves his pet on Growl, the rogue who accidentally garrotes the sheep, or the Warlock who misclicks fear and throws a demon into the next group of mobs instead of being enslaved.
4. Is your tank geared enough for the instance? A tank that with sub-par gear or the inability to generate rage will make life hell on any healer. This could also be coupled with the capable CC question.
Now my own group healing is something Im proud of due to a system Ive used since switching to Holy at lvl 60 called "70/50 Healing" which basically translates into if the tank is under 70% HP and a DPS Class is under 50% it means Im hitting the tank with a Holy Light to top him off and while under the effect of Light's Grace throwing a 2nd Holy Light on the injured DPS. While most of my healing is done via Flash of Light being able to top off two injured members with 2 spells is more mana efficient in the long run especially if Illumination procs during either or both casts.
1. Did you give the tank Blessing of Light? Doing this can drastically cut down your mana cost ss your heals will be a tad more powerful.
2. Did you give the DPSers Blessing of Salvation? While most DPS will cry for Might or Kings giving them Salvation allows them to pick up a bit on the DPS without fear of pulling threat which means you will not have to heal them as much.
3. Do you have capable CC? Everyone has grouped with that Huntard who leaves his pet on Growl, the rogue who accidentally garrotes the sheep, or the Warlock who misclicks fear and throws a demon into the next group of mobs instead of being enslaved.
4. Is your tank geared enough for the instance? A tank that with sub-par gear or the inability to generate rage will make life hell on any healer. This could also be coupled with the capable CC question.
Now my own group healing is something Im proud of due to a system Ive used since switching to Holy at lvl 60 called "70/50 Healing" which basically translates into if the tank is under 70% HP and a DPS Class is under 50% it means Im hitting the tank with a Holy Light to top him off and while under the effect of Light's Grace throwing a 2nd Holy Light on the injured DPS. While most of my healing is done via Flash of Light being able to top off two injured members with 2 spells is more mana efficient in the long run especially if Illumination procs during either or both casts.
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I didn't check out your armory, so I'm not sure if you have it or not, but don't forget about trinkets like the Lower City prayerbook, when used it shaves a bit off the cost of your healing spells for 15 seconds or so. It's not much, but every little bit helps. Also grab some brilliant (or is it superior, I forget) mana oil and apply it to your weapon to help out with your mp5. You may also want to go for one of the mp5 foods to boost that up. Depending on the situation, you may want to buff up with Elixir of Draenic Wisdom and Healing Power, or Draenic Wisdom and Adept's Elixir- the added crit from Adept's is nice for triggering Illumination and restoring mana.
I'd also suggest dropping a downranked Holy Light on someone every 10 seconds or so (if needed, of course) to keep Light's Grace up. This way, it's only 2 seconds for the Big Heal when you need it. I'll actually sometimes drop a rank 1 Holy Light on myself when the tank starts to pull just so I have a reduced cast time available if he needs a big heal right away. Downranked HL is a great way to keep Light's Grace up while topping off squishies who don't need the big heal.
I'd also suggest dropping a downranked Holy Light on someone every 10 seconds or so (if needed, of course) to keep Light's Grace up. This way, it's only 2 seconds for the Big Heal when you need it. I'll actually sometimes drop a rank 1 Holy Light on myself when the tank starts to pull just so I have a reduced cast time available if he needs a big heal right away. Downranked HL is a great way to keep Light's Grace up while topping off squishies who don't need the big heal.
Rank 8 holy light + Lights grace = your best friend. FoL spam won't work forever, so it's best to get used to the longer casting time of holy light. Plus, if your group members are taking over 2000 damage, it's faster to just use a downrank holy light than trying to use 2 flash of lights. Don't worry about expending your mana, you shouldn't be if the tank is a decent one. So long as you ride out the fight you can take your time to drink and eat afterwards, nobody will mind. But then again i do all my heroics with the best from my guild (20 minute h ramps!), so i may not be quite in touch with your situation.
Paladins aren't the best for group healing and I always had problems with heroics - being the only healer and not having any HoTs or AOE heals is tough. Priests, druids and shamen definitely have the edge over us here.
Having said that, you've got the right idea by getting healbot. It's a lot easier than having to target someone and then press holy/flash of light. It sounds like you've got the right idea for healing as well - keep the tank topped up and then heal the dps if you can.
Your stats are below par. There's no getting away from that and you know it. Sethekk is one of the tougher heroics for a start and if your group (except the tank) take damage on the final boss, it gets really hard to keep up with the healing.
What you can do is keep plugging away at the easier heroics - Mech, Bot, Slave Pens, etc. - and try to get in on Karazhan runs. The start of kara, up to Curator, is quite easy if there are two other healers there. You'll probably be assigned to one of the tanks and should be in your element as single-target healer. Badges will come to you and hopefully you'll get some drops into the bargain.
You would also do well to look at battlegrounds. There's some very nice Vindicator pvp gear that fits in with stuff from badges and Karazhan.
Having said that, you've got the right idea by getting healbot. It's a lot easier than having to target someone and then press holy/flash of light. It sounds like you've got the right idea for healing as well - keep the tank topped up and then heal the dps if you can.
Your stats are below par. There's no getting away from that and you know it. Sethekk is one of the tougher heroics for a start and if your group (except the tank) take damage on the final boss, it gets really hard to keep up with the healing.
What you can do is keep plugging away at the easier heroics - Mech, Bot, Slave Pens, etc. - and try to get in on Karazhan runs. The start of kara, up to Curator, is quite easy if there are two other healers there. You'll probably be assigned to one of the tanks and should be in your element as single-target healer. Badges will come to you and hopefully you'll get some drops into the bargain.
You would also do well to look at battlegrounds. There's some very nice Vindicator pvp gear that fits in with stuff from badges and Karazhan.
Honestly, if you want to make your life easier as a healer, then re-spec for healing. Shockadin specs won't help your healing.
Once you do that, take people's advice above, and you'll be fine.
It's actually quite impressive that you were able to heal through heroic Sethekk with your current gear and talents. Good job! With the proper gear and talents, you will be awesome.
Once you do that, take people's advice above, and you'll be fine.
It's actually quite impressive that you were able to heal through heroic Sethekk with your current gear and talents. Good job! With the proper gear and talents, you will be awesome.
Thanks for the advice everyone. I did indeed switch back to full holy last night and it's been helping a lot. With patch 2.3, the shockadin build might have finally been rendered extinct.
I'll be running Heroic Sethekk again soon for my lower city rep (aka. Lower City Prayerbook) so I'll see how things go. And yes, the last time I ran H Seth, I had the DPS shaman help me out with heals during the two bosses - it was JUST enough to keep the squishies alive for us to down em. And yes also, the tank was slightly undergeared so I had a doozy of a time keeping him alive.
I'll be running Heroic Sethekk again soon for my lower city rep (aka. Lower City Prayerbook) so I'll see how things go. And yes, the last time I ran H Seth, I had the DPS shaman help me out with heals during the two bosses - it was JUST enough to keep the squishies alive for us to down em. And yes also, the tank was slightly undergeared so I had a doozy of a time keeping him alive.
I'm gonna hijack my own thread here - when I said 99 mp5 with Blessing of Wisdom, I meant 99 mp5 "while casting". My non-casting MP5 is around 200 now.
Which begs the question, when people mention "mp5" on these forums, do they means "non-casting mp5" or "casting mp5"?
Which begs the question, when people mention "mp5" on these forums, do they means "non-casting mp5" or "casting mp5"?
You are in the blue pvp gear.
Which means your MP5 is atrocious, no atrocious would be an understatment. Your MP5 is hella fricking bad. It's pretty much a given fact that pvp gear does not have the Mp5 needed to PvE with.
Your trinkets are pretty bad as well. LCP, Shatar spell crit trinket both huge upgrades for you. There are going to be a few direct upgrades for you in regular 5 man dungeons that are Cloth, Leather or Mail.
As for clutch healing during damage spikes, trinkets, Divine Illumination, Divine Favour and Holy Light downranked are your friend.
Which means your MP5 is atrocious, no atrocious would be an understatment. Your MP5 is hella fricking bad. It's pretty much a given fact that pvp gear does not have the Mp5 needed to PvE with.
Your trinkets are pretty bad as well. LCP, Shatar spell crit trinket both huge upgrades for you. There are going to be a few direct upgrades for you in regular 5 man dungeons that are Cloth, Leather or Mail.
As for clutch healing during damage spikes, trinkets, Divine Illumination, Divine Favour and Holy Light downranked are your friend.
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
When people say MP5 - they mean "MP5 while casting". That is the only applicable MP5 stat since you are constantly casting :)
YJMark wrote:
When people say MP5 - they mean "MP5 while casting". That is the only applicable MP5 stat since you are constantly casting :)
They also mean "MP5 while casting W/O BoW or other buffs." That's the only baseline that matters, because we assume you will boost that a tad further with BoW, oil, and buff food.
On the other hand, most posters give their holy spell crit (i.e., their spell crit with the 5% holy bonus) not their non-holy base.
Downranked holy light - that's something I haven't tried yet.
So do you use the downranked holy light (I assume Rank 8) to trigger Light's Grace and then use the max rank holy light for the big heal when you get the the 0.5s casting bonus? And use the downranked version for the squishies and the max rank for the main tank?
Just clarifying.
So do you use the downranked holy light (I assume Rank 8) to trigger Light's Grace and then use the max rank holy light for the big heal when you get the the 0.5s casting bonus? And use the downranked version for the squishies and the max rank for the main tank?
Just clarifying.
Back when BoL was not affected by rank it almost payed more to use downranked HL than max ranked FoL for healing. That has changed.
As it stands though Rank 9/10 are preferrable in use than rank 11 (max) since the healing is there with reduced mana cost. I can cast Divine Illumination and spam rank 9 to quickly top off spike damage across a group and barely feel it mana wise. Whereas if I tried Rank 11 with no DI spam I would use 1/4 of my mana bar and be feeling it. Cause there are definitely times when FoL spamming the group is just not possible.
As it stands though Rank 9/10 are preferrable in use than rank 11 (max) since the healing is there with reduced mana cost. I can cast Divine Illumination and spam rank 9 to quickly top off spike damage across a group and barely feel it mana wise. Whereas if I tried Rank 11 with no DI spam I would use 1/4 of my mana bar and be feeling it. Cause there are definitely times when FoL spamming the group is just not possible.
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
Just to give an idea of the spell rotation I use. Say it is a 3 mob pull with no cc, the tank can be expected to take a lot of damage in the first few seconds of the fight.
I would pre-cast Holy Light (Rank 8) to land just as the mobs start hitting, this deals with any initial spike damage and triggers Light's Grace. Next, look at how much damage that initial damage did and throw another HL (R8) if needed or just top off with FoL.
Now, say 2 of the dps pull aggro or are hit by some sort of AoE effect. 2 things to think about would be, do they still have aggro and how long will they last without healing. If they are desperate, I normally throw them a FoL, reassess the tanks needs and then throw another FoL or HL(R8) to heal him up. This will vary of course depending on the situation but remember that the dps should not be getting constant damage like the tank does so err on the side of the tank if it comes to it.
Dunno if this helps you much but that's just my piece.
Good luck
I would pre-cast Holy Light (Rank 8) to land just as the mobs start hitting, this deals with any initial spike damage and triggers Light's Grace. Next, look at how much damage that initial damage did and throw another HL (R8) if needed or just top off with FoL.
Now, say 2 of the dps pull aggro or are hit by some sort of AoE effect. 2 things to think about would be, do they still have aggro and how long will they last without healing. If they are desperate, I normally throw them a FoL, reassess the tanks needs and then throw another FoL or HL(R8) to heal him up. This will vary of course depending on the situation but remember that the dps should not be getting constant damage like the tank does so err on the side of the tank if it comes to it.
Dunno if this helps you much but that's just my piece.
Good luck
edit: bawbaag beat me to it.
Edited, Apr 28th 2008 3:44pm by ktangent
Edited, Apr 28th 2008 3:44pm by ktangent
honestly, i have never had a problem healing, even in kara or heroics. i use healbot and i have never had to down rank any of my spells. am i just 1337? or am i lucky?
Quote:
honestly, i have never had a problem healing, even in kara or heroics. i use healbot and i have never had to down rank any of my spells. am i just 1337? or am i lucky?
I would say neither. Downranking is just a lot more mana efficient that casting max rank HL. If everything goes according to plan, you will probably be casting FoL more than anything with the occassional HL thrown in.
In heroics and kara, mana isn't normally much of an issue as the fights are a lot shorter and you can just drink afterwards but it's never a bad idea to keep some mana in reserve in case it goes pear-shaped. Max rank HL spam is your "oh sh#t!" button (with Divine Illumination ofc)
Downranking plays a much bigger part when you get into the bigger raids and the bosses last for a good 10 mins. You'll almost certainly have to pot in these fights unless you aren't healing enough or you overgear it.
Maximising your mana and minimising your overhealing is just good practice.
Thanks for the advice guys. I did get a chance to try a lot of the downranked stuff in another heroic run a few days ago and it seemed to help mana-conservation-wise, especially when I had to spam the whole group with a little more than FoL.
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