I put this here simply because I'm a resto druid and I'm sure you've all had some experience in this matter.
When playing in instances my favorite tank to have up front is a tankadin. I'm sure you all have your own opinions but I find the aggro AoEs perfect for those annoying instances like MGT. One of the guild tanks is a tankadin and we've never had any problems in any of the instances together. They keep me safe (SAVE THE TREE!!) and I innervate them when the mana gets desperate in messy fights. Good team!
Recently though... I went to steamvaults and we had a pally who I hadn't met before. Only a few pulls in problems started popping up and, madly enough, I usually got the blame! I was ordered, yes ordered, to waste my mana constantly "big healing" him so he could get more mana. All the errant mobs attacking dps were apparently my fault due to a lack of overhealing. Why am I healing a fully health, heavily armored tank when clothies are taking damage?! Now I haven't seen this healing->mana conversion in the pally talents but I might of missed it. Either way looking at his mana bar the conversion must be so small it's hardly worth letting the dps collapse from AoE damage...
Before we even got to the first boss one of the dps (a guildmate) left and told me I shouldn't have to put up with it. So I left.
A day later I had a repeat performance in Mech. Joy.
What is this pally ability and how do you guys combat this "big heal" rubbish?
P.S. Sorry for the rant.
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Not a rant, more an angry monologue.Follow
I play a druid and a paladin and I'm a chronic respeccer so I know about all the builds for both classes.
I was totally confused with what your PUG pally was talking about. I've never heard of big heals helping pallies keep their mana up. Heck, I can't even figure out what that means. If he means that he's self-healing then he's one lousy tank. All tankadins do is holy shield, consecrate and occassionally judge for spike threat increase, but self-heal is only in dire emergencies because while you're healing you can't dodge, parry or block which makes you ultra vulnerable.
My verdict is that paladin's a whack-job. I would put him on your blacklist and inform all your friends and guildies about him. That's just bad news right there.
I was totally confused with what your PUG pally was talking about. I've never heard of big heals helping pallies keep their mana up. Heck, I can't even figure out what that means. If he means that he's self-healing then he's one lousy tank. All tankadins do is holy shield, consecrate and occassionally judge for spike threat increase, but self-heal is only in dire emergencies because while you're healing you can't dodge, parry or block which makes you ultra vulnerable.
My verdict is that paladin's a whack-job. I would put him on your blacklist and inform all your friends and guildies about him. That's just bad news right there.
according to wowwiki paladins due regain mana through healing
"We'd rather be healed than given Power Word: Shield. Heals cast by others give us mana. Damage prevention does not. Also, when tanking, Power Word: Shield prevents all of our reflective damage abilities from proccing -- i.e., it kills a very large part of our threat generation (leaving Consecration and weapon swings)."
http://www.wowwiki.com/Working_with_a..._(Paladin)
How exactly I'm not sure of the mechanics but I have read in another thread the druid HOT's don't really mesh well with a pally tank.
They need the crits of a spike heal to help with their mana regen from my understanding.
"We'd rather be healed than given Power Word: Shield. Heals cast by others give us mana. Damage prevention does not. Also, when tanking, Power Word: Shield prevents all of our reflective damage abilities from proccing -- i.e., it kills a very large part of our threat generation (leaving Consecration and weapon swings)."
http://www.wowwiki.com/Working_with_a..._(Paladin)
How exactly I'm not sure of the mechanics but I have read in another thread the druid HOT's don't really mesh well with a pally tank.
They need the crits of a spike heal to help with their mana regen from my understanding.
I completely forgot about the passive ability that paladins have - forgot the name of it, but it does restore some mana due to healing.
Even then, doesn't that PUG pally know what druid healers are all about. Druids HoT, rarely nuke heal. He was expecting a TOL to act like a spam healing holy paladin. That's dumb.
Even then, doesn't that PUG pally know what druid healers are all about. Druids HoT, rarely nuke heal. He was expecting a TOL to act like a spam healing holy paladin. That's dumb.
Spiritual Attunement, 8/10% of healing recieved (from others) as mana. In other words, those 4k HTs give the tank 400 mana; about 2/3s the cost of a Consecration. If DPS is pulling aggro, they're probably AoEing too soon or not attacking the right target. Or, since the paly sounds like an idiot, it might be that he forgot to cast Righteous Fury or is severly lacking in +spell damage.
True the pala gets mana from healing, but he gets nothing if he's already at full health! So no matter if you use big heals or roll hots on him, he will get the exact same amount of mana from getting healed to full. If he's mana starved, that means he isn't taking enough damage, which means your heals don't give him any mana. But if he isn't taking enough damage, then he is either not doing his job at keeping threat or the dps'ers aren't allowing the tank to build enough threat. This situation can never be the healers fault!
Edit: Oh and btw, whats the difference between a rant and an angry monologue :D
Edited, Apr 25th 2008 9:35am by DKDruid
Edit: Oh and btw, whats the difference between a rant and an angry monologue :D
Edited, Apr 25th 2008 9:35am by DKDruid
The pally was dumb, overheals don't return mana (and whether they were healed by a HoT or a Spike is irrelevant, since they get healed the same amount in either case assuming they stay alive.
Scholar
26 posts
Thanks for the replies and info on that Spiritual Attument thing. I'm just going to put it down as two dumb pallys in two unfortunate groups. Thankfully I haven't had any similar situations since.
I think part of the problem, more on the first tank than the second, was that the pally had such a patheticly small mana pool that he needed these 'big heals' to use his abilities beyond the starting shield throw and AoE. Maybe he was wearing warr armor... Just goes to show that all those epics count for squat if you can't get it right.
Anyway, I'm back to getting known tanks and other than my tendancy to snap like a twig (Yes, pun intended) no problems to speak of.
Oh and DKDruid, the difference between a rant and an angry monologue is that the monologue ends with a question instead of "AAAAAARGH!!! I HATE YOU ALL!!! WAAARGHARBLE!!!". The differences are subtle but there.
I think part of the problem, more on the first tank than the second, was that the pally had such a patheticly small mana pool that he needed these 'big heals' to use his abilities beyond the starting shield throw and AoE. Maybe he was wearing warr armor... Just goes to show that all those epics count for squat if you can't get it right.
Anyway, I'm back to getting known tanks and other than my tendancy to snap like a twig (Yes, pun intended) no problems to speak of.
Oh and DKDruid, the difference between a rant and an angry monologue is that the monologue ends with a question instead of "AAAAAARGH!!! I HATE YOU ALL!!! WAAARGHARBLE!!!". The differences are subtle but there.
Heh - dumb pallies.
I healed Ramps on my 61 Shammy with a Prot Pally who we had to explain that instead of putting Blessing of Salvation on himself he should try casting Righteous Fury :)
I healed Ramps on my 61 Shammy with a Prot Pally who we had to explain that instead of putting Blessing of Salvation on himself he should try casting Righteous Fury :)
kind of funny after replying to this I ran with a prot pally in a group the other day. It went fairly well for the most part. Wasn't flawless but not that ugly for a pug. I was lagging and wasn't on top of my game even yet was invited to do another run. I had to go though.. I did ask him if my HOT's were helping any or if he wanted me to spam HT instead on him and he didn't seem to care either way.
Spiritual Attunement used to regen mana from overhealing, but they changed that in 2.1 (nerf to Holy Paladins more than Tankadins).
If he needed more mana that badly, he should have taken his pants off (and stopped spamming consecrate on a 1-2 mobs). -.-
If he needed more mana that badly, he should have taken his pants off (and stopped spamming consecrate on a 1-2 mobs). -.-
Just tell him to shut the @#%^ up and let you do your job. If he continued to be a pain in the ***. Just leave group, it's never worth sticking it out with idiots. Most importantly never let anyone dictate your own pace, that doesn't mean you don't have to listen positive feedback to improve yourself but never give in to selfish or misguided people.
Edited, Apr 29th 2008 11:41am by Elustriel
Edited, Apr 29th 2008 11:41am by Elustriel
You win some....you lose some...but you live....you live to raid another day is what is should be about.Like before if the going gets tough is actually weak then leave.That pally should go back and read his instruction manual again.I play a paladin but i'm not even high enough to raid yet.Level 29.But I know my class.I've studied my class.Right now i'm trying a druid just to see what all the hype is.There great.You can range attack then switch to bear and tank.Awsome.Pally's are great tanks.But if a pally that is level 70 goes into an instance and doesn't know his job...he needs to quit.or go play a hunter and level alone.Get so damn tired of hearing about players who don't know there classes.I slap those who don't know there classes by that level.I read the forums all day long and learn new things and tips every day.If I don't know the answer to something...I ask.That way when the time comes I won't put my group in jeopardy like that Retardin did.Thats my story and i'm stickin to it.
The other thing, tough PUG's are probably the place to hone your skills. If you can tank/heal when idiots are pullling agro left, right & center then you can handle anything.
Tanking/Healing when all CC works and everyone is DPS the right target and not pulling agro will not actually teach you much about what to do when the $#!% hits the fan.
Mind you, I hate PUG's with a passion :) But with guildies all epic'd out, it isn't easy to get a non-heroic group together for my newer 70's.
Tanking/Healing when all CC works and everyone is DPS the right target and not pulling agro will not actually teach you much about what to do when the $#!% hits the fan.
Mind you, I hate PUG's with a passion :) But with guildies all epic'd out, it isn't easy to get a non-heroic group together for my newer 70's.
As a prot pally myself takning a lot of level 70 5-mans to get geared up, I must say Tree Druids are my favorite healers.
Holy pallies and priests spam small heals every 1.5 seconds than generally return about 150 mana to me (maybe up to 200 depending on how well-geared the healer is).
Shamans use Earth Shield which is considered me healing myself and so does not prov Spiritual Attunement.
A decently geared Tree Druid will have a 3 stack of lifebloom and a rejuv on me pretty much all the time. The 3-stack of Lifebloom will generally heal me for about 600 hp/sec which equates to about 60 mana/sec through Spiritual Attunement. Add in the rejuv ticking for a few hundred every 3 seconds and that's even more mana returned. Basically, with a Tree Druid healer, I am a pally tank with somewhere around 500 MP5 AND my HP is always topped off. If I take big spike damage they throw a Regrowth out which then ticks for more hp and mana.
Overall I love Tree Druids. I'm trying to find a Tree Druid, elemental shaman, and shadow priest to run all of my 5-mans with.
Tree Druid = massive MP5, spike dmg protection
Ele Shaman = more threat through WoA
Shadow Priest = MP5 for everyone!!!
Holy pallies and priests spam small heals every 1.5 seconds than generally return about 150 mana to me (maybe up to 200 depending on how well-geared the healer is).
Shamans use Earth Shield which is considered me healing myself and so does not prov Spiritual Attunement.
A decently geared Tree Druid will have a 3 stack of lifebloom and a rejuv on me pretty much all the time. The 3-stack of Lifebloom will generally heal me for about 600 hp/sec which equates to about 60 mana/sec through Spiritual Attunement. Add in the rejuv ticking for a few hundred every 3 seconds and that's even more mana returned. Basically, with a Tree Druid healer, I am a pally tank with somewhere around 500 MP5 AND my HP is always topped off. If I take big spike damage they throw a Regrowth out which then ticks for more hp and mana.
Overall I love Tree Druids. I'm trying to find a Tree Druid, elemental shaman, and shadow priest to run all of my 5-mans with.
Tree Druid = massive MP5, spike dmg protection
Ele Shaman = more threat through WoA
Shadow Priest = MP5 for everyone!!!
Scholar
26 posts
Souliken, I agree with that. I always grin at the players who rant oooon and oooon about their epics but are plain rubbish. Just after I repsecced and was a mere +600 healing I healed in black morass. First PuG (had a leeeetle practice with the guild and a main healer as backup) and we managed to ace it. Baptism of freaking fire!! All thanks to a bit of practice and alot of methodology. Gotta love forums!
And RareBeast, I never do instances with guildmembers. PUG's are greeeeat training and help build up a great friends list of good players. If a few dozen gold have to be spent on repairs, so be it. Although it's got to the stage where I can tank IN TREE FORM!!! With war stomp, drums of panic, bark skin and spamming selfheals I can keep a mob busy for a good 15 seconds. Shouldn't have to happen but a lifesaver when that one mob resists the tank.
I do miss the feral days where I could play my hand at just about anything... Go dps mad, quick heal there, shift to bear to bear charge and bash those healer eaters, emergency tranquility... -sigh- good times.
Still, nothing can beat resto druids for pure awesomeness!! At least among healers.
And RareBeast, I never do instances with guildmembers. PUG's are greeeeat training and help build up a great friends list of good players. If a few dozen gold have to be spent on repairs, so be it. Although it's got to the stage where I can tank IN TREE FORM!!! With war stomp, drums of panic, bark skin and spamming selfheals I can keep a mob busy for a good 15 seconds. Shouldn't have to happen but a lifesaver when that one mob resists the tank.
I do miss the feral days where I could play my hand at just about anything... Go dps mad, quick heal there, shift to bear to bear charge and bash those healer eaters, emergency tranquility... -sigh- good times.
Still, nothing can beat resto druids for pure awesomeness!! At least among healers.
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