In many instances, when grouped with a paladin, I ask for blessing of salvation. I find I'm usually the top DPS in the group and the blessing helps a ton with being able to unload without pulling aggro. Of course with 2 pallys I would ask for salv and might -- depending on the mana consumption required.
However, as a hunter, my role is also to trap. I never considered that this blessing may interfere with my trapping. What I am referring to is my ability to gain initial aggro on the pull to trap my mob. As a matter of fact, I've rarely encountered a mob that will not path to my trap with Salv. I usually pull my trapped mob with distracting shot.
My question for other hunters is, what pally buffs do you find useful in a group? And is it detrimental to use blessing of salvation when in a CC role?
Thanks!
Wolf
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Well, my hunter is only 44 and I haven't grouped with any paladins on her. However, my paladin is 70 and I've grouped with many a hunter.
My question would be: What role is the paladin in the group?
The reason I ask is that I remember one run I accidentally put salv on the hunter - and we had a good ol' time mocking him for not being able to pull to his trap (of course then we had a good ol' time mocking me when I realized what was going on and made the mistake of telling everyone).
If you're mostly grouping with healing paladins, it's probably not *too* much of an issue. If you're grouping with a shield-throwing tanking, paladin (and there isn't another paladin to give you might) then it may be a problem. The hunter mentioned above was a GOOD hunter. And epic geared (I was in blues at the time). And he couldn't pull the mob off me until about the time we were ready to kill it anyway.
As for what I usually gave hunters? Might. Unless it was long/boss fight in which case, if they wanted it, I'd give them wis. Some would take it, some would just chug fel mana pots and keep the might.
My question would be: What role is the paladin in the group?
The reason I ask is that I remember one run I accidentally put salv on the hunter - and we had a good ol' time mocking him for not being able to pull to his trap (of course then we had a good ol' time mocking me when I realized what was going on and made the mistake of telling everyone).
If you're mostly grouping with healing paladins, it's probably not *too* much of an issue. If you're grouping with a shield-throwing tanking, paladin (and there isn't another paladin to give you might) then it may be a problem. The hunter mentioned above was a GOOD hunter. And epic geared (I was in blues at the time). And he couldn't pull the mob off me until about the time we were ready to kill it anyway.
As for what I usually gave hunters? Might. Unless it was long/boss fight in which case, if they wanted it, I'd give them wis. Some would take it, some would just chug fel mana pots and keep the might.
In 5 mans and farm content I always want salv first, because dps isn't going to be a problem and it's nice to have that buffer. In progression content I get Kings, Might, Wisdom, Salve in that order, and I usually have all 4 so it's not an issue.
For trapping I will usually hit steady and then spam arcane. this will get steady-auto-arcane in a very short space of time and will generate enough threat even with salve. Another good idea is to hit concussive shot and then fire off a distracting to get more threat.
To Celcio: You use CC with pally tanks?
If the pally can take the damage, it's usually more effective just to nuke the mobs down. Depends on your gear and the healer though. Pally tanks are very hard to pull off of. If you're trapping with them, get rid of salv and get your shots off as fast as you can for the pull. Try to trap so they don't go into the consecrate either.
Edited, Apr 23rd 2008 12:37pm by Xsarus
For trapping I will usually hit steady and then spam arcane. this will get steady-auto-arcane in a very short space of time and will generate enough threat even with salve. Another good idea is to hit concussive shot and then fire off a distracting to get more threat.
To Celcio: You use CC with pally tanks?
If the pally can take the damage, it's usually more effective just to nuke the mobs down. Depends on your gear and the healer though. Pally tanks are very hard to pull off of. If you're trapping with them, get rid of salv and get your shots off as fast as you can for the pull. Try to trap so they don't go into the consecrate either. Edited, Apr 23rd 2008 12:37pm by Xsarus
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Might > Kings > Wisdom > salvation > whatever else.
Sir Xsarus wrote:
To Celcio: You use CC with pally tanks? If the pally can take the damage, it's usually more effective just to nuke the mobs down. Depends on your gear and the healer though. Pally tanks are very hard to pull off of. If you're trapping with them, get rid of salv and get your shots off as fast as you can for the pull. Try to trap so they don't go into the consecrate either.
If the pally can take the damage, it's usually more effective just to nuke the mobs down. Depends on your gear and the healer though. Pally tanks are very hard to pull off of. If you're trapping with them, get rid of salv and get your shots off as fast as you can for the pull. Try to trap so they don't go into the consecrate either. Not often on the CC, no. But in heroics and with the gear I had at the time? Yeah, we needed a little CC. I was always sad about that, coming off regular SH runs where I took Maulgak's sig approach** and then needing CC in heroics.
Oh and a good pally tank will back around to keep the consecrate away from the CC, but it's always nice if the CC aren't morons and give us a little space to actually do that
**Group: "So, what's the kill order Tankadin?"
Tankadin: "This room, the next, the hallway, then the boss: clear?" /cast Avenger's Shield
LOVE and I mean LOVE pally tanks. Your last line hit the nail on the head Celc.
To the OP, if you've got a prot pally, don't worry about CC unless he is undergeared for that instance (heroics or something).
To the OP, if you've got a prot pally, don't worry about CC unless he is undergeared for that instance (heroics or something).
One of the traits of a good hunter is the ability to manage your own Agro.
In short, No Salvation....ever.
Our class has our own built in ways to handle out agroing by mistake.
But for any run, from a normal group all the way to 25 mans, I always try and maintain my agro right below the tank(s).
That way I am able to provide extra coverage should something happen to a tank.
That agro allows me to....
Trap
Kite
Pet Tank
Kite and MD back on the Tank
It also helps our healers know that (usually) if a tank goes down or DC's or whatever, They aren't the first target the mob heads for.
In order I prefer:
1. Kings
2. Might
3. Wisdom
Lets leave Salve for the other classes.
(P.S. To any Paladins that read this: If a Hunter clicks off Salve 89 bajillion times as soon as you cast it....STOP IT! We don't want the dam buff.)
In short, No Salvation....ever.
Our class has our own built in ways to handle out agroing by mistake.
But for any run, from a normal group all the way to 25 mans, I always try and maintain my agro right below the tank(s).
That way I am able to provide extra coverage should something happen to a tank.
That agro allows me to....
Trap
Kite
Pet Tank
Kite and MD back on the Tank
It also helps our healers know that (usually) if a tank goes down or DC's or whatever, They aren't the first target the mob heads for.
In order I prefer:
1. Kings
2. Might
3. Wisdom
Lets leave Salve for the other classes.
(P.S. To any Paladins that read this: If a Hunter clicks off Salve 89 bajillion times as soon as you cast it....STOP IT! We don't want the dam buff.
)Scholar
42 posts
One of the things I havent seen mentioned unless I missed it.
If you're topping out on the threat meter, hit feign death. On long boss fights I hit it a couple of times before i even come close to pulling aggro.
When you have an aggro dump like FD, there's never a reason for salvation.
If you're topping out on the threat meter, hit feign death. On long boss fights I hit it a couple of times before i even come close to pulling aggro.
When you have an aggro dump like FD, there's never a reason for salvation.
Aethien wrote:
Might > Kings > Wisdom > salvation > whatever else.
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Yeah you could be right..... I hardly ever do anything besides dailies outside of raiding :P
I agree with other posters above that might>kings>wis>salv>BoL.
FD has a 30 second cooldown. I would much rather damage like crazy and have to FD constantly than not hit as hard and rarely use it.
FD has a 30 second cooldown. I would much rather damage like crazy and have to FD constantly than not hit as hard and rarely use it.
dbernor is right. As Hunters, the abilities that allow us to manage agro are quite solid. Personally, I believe that Hunters should *never* get Salv as a primary blessing. If we have 10 billion pallies in the raid, then sure, salv would lovely. It'll let me go 30% harder.
HOWEVER, when I'm on my Tankadin, Hunters get Salv. Why? Because I automatically assume that anyone I group with is incompetent. It saves my sanity when they in fact turn out to be incompetent, and rewards me with a "Yay, I was wrong!" feeling when they turn out to be awesome.
Sad to say, I've rarely grouped with a Hunter who could manage his agro properly. As for trapping, I rarely assign trap targets to Hunters in an instance, simply because my shield is unpredictable and can cause too much hassle for the Hunter.
If I do need to trap, I'll tell the Hunter to trap something my shield doesn't hit.
HOWEVER, when I'm on my Tankadin, Hunters get Salv. Why? Because I automatically assume that anyone I group with is incompetent. It saves my sanity when they in fact turn out to be incompetent, and rewards me with a "Yay, I was wrong!" feeling when they turn out to be awesome.
Sad to say, I've rarely grouped with a Hunter who could manage his agro properly. As for trapping, I rarely assign trap targets to Hunters in an instance, simply because my shield is unpredictable and can cause too much hassle for the Hunter.
If I do need to trap, I'll tell the Hunter to trap something my shield doesn't hit.
5 posts
Thanks! Some great feedback.
I guess one of the reasons I hesitate to use FD as an aggro dump early and often is if the party does get in over their heads. I have the option, as an engineer, to FD and use the jumper cables XL.
I think I like dbernor's approach -- to stay just below the tank aggro as a better way of saving the party before a wipe occurs. I'll give that a shot.
I guess one of the reasons I hesitate to use FD as an aggro dump early and often is if the party does get in over their heads. I have the option, as an engineer, to FD and use the jumper cables XL.
I think I like dbernor's approach -- to stay just below the tank aggro as a better way of saving the party before a wipe occurs. I'll give that a shot.
13 posts
I run most of my heroics with a pally tank and use kings now i've respecced to survival, but I did tend just use salv when i'm feeling lazy (and quite a lot when the threat meters were all messed up after the patch). On the rare occasion when something needed to be cc'd then pulling to trap once aoe tanking was is in full flow normally ended up in the mob dieing of being nearly dead by the time i got agro on it. As long as you are paying attention and fire off your pulling shot as soon as the tank pulls then pulling to trap is no problem.
Kings->Might->Wisdom->Light->Sanctuary.
Never Salvation. If you are a hunter and the first blessing you ask for is salvation, then you still have much to learn, to put it mildly.
Never Salvation. If you are a hunter and the first blessing you ask for is salvation, then you still have much to learn, to put it mildly.
I prefer kings, but I don't mind salvation - it lets me nuke constantly (although I still have to watch my threat even with salv). I had trouble with pulling for traps until I started accumulating epics. also helped when I started running with tanks who didn't try to aggro my trap targets >.>
I have to agree that salv is not (should not) be necessary for hunters though.
Edited, Apr 24th 2008 12:28pm by concolor
I have to agree that salv is not (should not) be necessary for hunters though.
Edited, Apr 24th 2008 12:28pm by concolor
concolor wrote:
I prefer kings, but I don't mind salvation - it lets me nuke constantly (although I still have to watch my threat even with salv).
Edited, Apr 24th 2008 12:28pm by concolor
Edited, Apr 24th 2008 12:28pm by concolor
WTB new tank if you have to watch threat with salvation. WTB new hunter who ask for salvation.
Hunter TPS isnt that huge because we not popping huge crits like locks and mages, or shammies with their triple quadruple chain crits. Our damage is from constant sustained dps. Seriously, our crits are gonna be 3-4k tops. Mages/locks are pounding 2k fireballs and 5-6k crits easily (prob more like 8k raid buffed). Even if you crit like crazy, you should just have to dump aggro ONCE, twice at most on longer fights, and be fine for the rest of the fight, even with a moderately decent tank.
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