Alright guys, so you're probably wondering why I'm asking something about a restokin when there's an awesome thread right under this one.
I now understand from the other thread that restokins are pretty good at both healing AND Dpsing, and that they heal a little bit different then ToL. From what I read, you don't use HoT's while restokin, correct? You use HT way more since you can't get a big heal with Regrowth+Swiftmend. Is that the only reason that you don't go all HoT-happy on the tank?
I guess I just want to know the FULL list of Pro's and Con's to healing/off healing (70 instances through Kara), how you do it, and if it's worth getting all of the "Kin" instead of going full resto. More then just "Yeah Restokin is actually reccomeded for PvE healing now"
Thanks in advance,
~Tuna
Edit: Grammar
Edited, Apr 22nd 2008 10:10pm by Degortuna
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As a restokin/dreamstate raiding druid...
1) Yes, I have way more solo abilities with this build ( was TOL for a long time before this).
2) Of course you use HOTs while restokin. While healing instances and raids, you still keep lifebloom and rejuv stacked on your tanks. However, while you handle spikes with regrowth or regrowth+swiftmend in TOL, in restokin you have a choice of using regrowth for small spikes and HT for big spikes, without switching forms. Nothing like a 5K HT (or 10K HT crit) when your tank takes spike damage!
3) My HOTs are about 10% weaker using the same gear. I have slightly less mana efficient heals, but I have a bunch more Mp5, and my direct heal (HT) is more powerful due to the bonus you get on spell damage with balance builds.
4) You lose TOL healing bonuses for other healers on your tank.. but you gain the ability to use insect swarm on bosses so they have a 2% greater chance to miss. This cant be underestimated.
It would be a huge mistake to go restokin and think you're only a direct heal type, like a pally. You lose a bit of HOT effectiveness and gain solo versatility and the ability to mix in direct heals more... plus more offensive skills. I even successfully DPS stuff up through Kara with my restokin build.
Edited, Apr 23rd 2008 7:37am by pjbairdct
1) Yes, I have way more solo abilities with this build ( was TOL for a long time before this).
2) Of course you use HOTs while restokin. While healing instances and raids, you still keep lifebloom and rejuv stacked on your tanks. However, while you handle spikes with regrowth or regrowth+swiftmend in TOL, in restokin you have a choice of using regrowth for small spikes and HT for big spikes, without switching forms. Nothing like a 5K HT (or 10K HT crit) when your tank takes spike damage!
3) My HOTs are about 10% weaker using the same gear. I have slightly less mana efficient heals, but I have a bunch more Mp5, and my direct heal (HT) is more powerful due to the bonus you get on spell damage with balance builds.
4) You lose TOL healing bonuses for other healers on your tank.. but you gain the ability to use insect swarm on bosses so they have a 2% greater chance to miss. This cant be underestimated.
It would be a huge mistake to go restokin and think you're only a direct heal type, like a pally. You lose a bit of HOT effectiveness and gain solo versatility and the ability to mix in direct heals more... plus more offensive skills. I even successfully DPS stuff up through Kara with my restokin build.
Edited, Apr 23rd 2008 7:37am by pjbairdct
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32 posts
Wow Thanks pjbairdct! That's what I wanted to know! I just hit 69 on my druid about 10 minutes ago and am going to farm some honor for a while...but I can't wait to go resto again! Ermm...balance I mean = D
By a "direct heal type...like a pally" do you mean no HoT's? Or like an off healer (third healer in kara for example)
SO basically just the same thing but HT instead of Regrowth+SM! Sounds good!
And would you reccomend this or ToL for PvP? being in natural form and not having the movement decrease I could see as being good, but being focused around HT a little more, seems kind of easy for rogues to just come up and kick/gouge/kidney the heal and burn me down.
Thanks again for the info! Once I hit 70 I'll only need to get a few epics from PvP then will be ready to off heal Kara, ya think Restokin would be fine for a druid with probably ~900ish healing?
Oh and since I'm asking a TON of questions I guess I have room for one more. Should I be going for Spi>int now or Int>Spi? as a restokin
Hehe woot can't WAIT to try it out thanks SO MUCH!
~Tuna
By a "direct heal type...like a pally" do you mean no HoT's? Or like an off healer (third healer in kara for example)
SO basically just the same thing but HT instead of Regrowth+SM! Sounds good!
And would you reccomend this or ToL for PvP? being in natural form and not having the movement decrease I could see as being good, but being focused around HT a little more, seems kind of easy for rogues to just come up and kick/gouge/kidney the heal and burn me down.
Thanks again for the info! Once I hit 70 I'll only need to get a few epics from PvP then will be ready to off heal Kara, ya think Restokin would be fine for a druid with probably ~900ish healing?
Oh and since I'm asking a TON of questions I guess I have room for one more. Should I be going for Spi>int now or Int>Spi? as a restokin
Hehe woot can't WAIT to try it out thanks SO MUCH!
~Tuna
In my opinion, restokin's focus is not Healing Touch. It's Dreamstate. What happened to people calling it the Dreamstate build, anyway? I liked that name better.
The talents you put points in will make Healing Touch better and cheaper, of course, but the big thing about this build is the Dreamstate talent that will skyrocket your mana regen, allowing you to spam Lifeblooms forever and such.
The choice of spell is always situational. In PvE you'll still roll Lifeblooms on tanks, with the option to cast big Healing Touch when things go crazy. In PvP, you'll be nearly unkillable and you'll keep your team going by stacking Lifeblooms on everyone while walking around and generally being a pain for the other team.
Healing Touch in PvP, sometimes you know you'll be left alone so you can get away with a few casts before they notice you. In AV for example, some epic battles have so many people in them that it takes a while to be spotted.
The game is about adapting. More for us druids than for anyone else.
The talents you put points in will make Healing Touch better and cheaper, of course, but the big thing about this build is the Dreamstate talent that will skyrocket your mana regen, allowing you to spam Lifeblooms forever and such.
The choice of spell is always situational. In PvE you'll still roll Lifeblooms on tanks, with the option to cast big Healing Touch when things go crazy. In PvP, you'll be nearly unkillable and you'll keep your team going by stacking Lifeblooms on everyone while walking around and generally being a pain for the other team.
Healing Touch in PvP, sometimes you know you'll be left alone so you can get away with a few casts before they notice you. In AV for example, some epic battles have so many people in them that it takes a while to be spotted.
The game is about adapting. More for us druids than for anyone else.
Nuit Midril - White Mage/Scholar on Ultros
Nuit the Insane! - Retired Druid on Sentinels.
Ombre - Retired Dragoon/bard on Phoenix.
By direct heal I meant using your direct heals only, like a paladin does, nothing about being an off-healer.
I like restokin better for PVP because when you need armor, you go moonkin and still have nice offensive abilities.. unlike going to bear in a resto build, where you are basically a meatshield.
INT>SPI for restokin, for sure. You get both spell bonus and mana regen from intelligence in this build. That said, I don't ever turn down high spirit items, as this build is all about mana regen.
900 healing bonus is fine for starting Kara... but I recommend closer to 1400+ for end bosses. But there are lots of leather healing drops in the early Kara bosses.
PhoenixOmbre is absolutely right.. this build is about dreamstate (and lunar guidance and moonglow). I'm not sure why people get so focused on thinking restokin = healing touch build.
I am around 1900 healing bonus in restokin and it's a rare day I am not leading raid healer (even over some pallies who have over 2K healing bonus). The healer who's closest to me is a priest who has about the same healing bonus.
Edited, Apr 23rd 2008 7:44am by pjbairdct
I like restokin better for PVP because when you need armor, you go moonkin and still have nice offensive abilities.. unlike going to bear in a resto build, where you are basically a meatshield.
INT>SPI for restokin, for sure. You get both spell bonus and mana regen from intelligence in this build. That said, I don't ever turn down high spirit items, as this build is all about mana regen.
900 healing bonus is fine for starting Kara... but I recommend closer to 1400+ for end bosses. But there are lots of leather healing drops in the early Kara bosses.
PhoenixOmbre is absolutely right.. this build is about dreamstate (and lunar guidance and moonglow). I'm not sure why people get so focused on thinking restokin = healing touch build.
I am around 1900 healing bonus in restokin and it's a rare day I am not leading raid healer (even over some pallies who have over 2K healing bonus). The healer who's closest to me is a priest who has about the same healing bonus.
Edited, Apr 23rd 2008 7:44am by pjbairdct
The best post regarding druid healing I've come across so far:
http://wowhead.com/?forums&topic=10572
Very little, if anything, that's left unanswered.
http://wowhead.com/?forums&topic=10572
Very little, if anything, that's left unanswered.
Kanng it's good on HOT based healing, but really bad on dreamstate healing.
Again-- your HOTs are not totally nerfed in a dreamstate build. The "stack lifebloom and rejuv" rules still apply. The different levels of HT makes sense, but it also makes total sense to use regrowth instead of a downranked HT for some heals.
Again-- your HOTs are not totally nerfed in a dreamstate build. The "stack lifebloom and rejuv" rules still apply. The different levels of HT makes sense, but it also makes total sense to use regrowth instead of a downranked HT for some heals.
Scholar
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Woot Thanks again for the replies! I think I get it now = D. Once I log on today after school I'll be able to try it out, it sounds GREAT! Thanks Phoenix and pjbair for answering all the noobish questions, as you can see from my sig this will be my first healer : )
THANKS
~Tuna
THANKS
~Tuna
I'm a fan of HoT spells, so I sort of went with the Restokin build hoping it would turn me into a HoT monster. So far, even with spamming Regrowth to cover spike damage, my mana regen survives, so I haven't really used Healing Touch much. I don't have any of the beneficial talents, as well, so my Healing Touch is slower than even the Ferals'. I went with Nature's Focus instead of Naturalist and no Tranquil Spirit.
Should I go with a more HT focused Restokin build? Currently I'm wearing crap PvP gear, so I'm mostly doing instances with the current build. I have Nature's Focus, mainly because of PvP usefulness, which is why I dumped more points into Subtlety, but I also find it quite nice for those Regrowths while you're being hit on.
Although, Barkskin would probably be better there...
Hmm.
Edited, Apr 23rd 2008 11:55pm by Mazra
Should I go with a more HT focused Restokin build? Currently I'm wearing crap PvP gear, so I'm mostly doing instances with the current build. I have Nature's Focus, mainly because of PvP usefulness, which is why I dumped more points into Subtlety, but I also find it quite nice for those Regrowths while you're being hit on.
Although, Barkskin would probably be better there...
Hmm.
Edited, Apr 23rd 2008 11:55pm by Mazra
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
Wow, this got started fast. Spells crit for 150% w/o talents, so a 5k HT would crit for 7.5k, or a whole lot of over-healing most of the time.
I would reccomend an add-on like DrDamage if you want to know what the HPM (healing per mana) is for your heals, including down-ranked HTs. Generally, LB is your best HPM at any level of +healing. After that, talents will determine whether HT, Regrowth, or Rejuv is next. Cast what gets the most HPM and still has enough HPS (healing per second) to keep the tank alive.
I would reccomend an add-on like DrDamage if you want to know what the HPM (healing per mana) is for your heals, including down-ranked HTs. Generally, LB is your best HPM at any level of +healing. After that, talents will determine whether HT, Regrowth, or Rejuv is next. Cast what gets the most HPM and still has enough HPS (healing per second) to keep the tank alive.
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32 posts
Thanks Astarin! Probly would be a good idea to pick up an addon like that, any other good addons for healing? I currently have Healbot and it's pretty good
Edited, Apr 24th 2008 4:06pm by Degortuna
Edited, Apr 24th 2008 4:06pm by Degortuna
I'm only using xperl in healer mode along with my mouseover macros. Can't say that I feel like I'm missing anything.
Degortuna wrote:
Thanks Astarin! Probly would be a good idea to pick up an addon like that, any other good addons for healing? I currently have Healbot and it's pretty god
When healing, I'm using Grid + Clique. I prefered it over healbot.. but in the end, both are doing the same thing the same way :D Why I decided to use Grid? I tried healbot for a few runs and I had difficulties setting it up to looks something I would want to use.. pureley esthetics ;)
I have xPerl and Decursive, I set up macros for anyone I need to keep LB on, and use a focus frame in xPerl to watch the boss and see who he's targeting.
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Thank you all for the replies!
I found the guide that Kanngarnix was VERY helpful. It gives you all the math to back it up and has some VERY helpful info...all-in-all it was a VERY good 1hour 15 minute read = D
Oh and Astarin, would those macro's you use to keep LB up on people be in the Druid rescourses thread anywhere? Or did you get them from somewhere else?
~Tuna
I found the guide that Kanngarnix was VERY helpful. It gives you all the math to back it up and has some VERY helpful info...all-in-all it was a VERY good 1hour 15 minute read = D
Oh and Astarin, would those macro's you use to keep LB up on people be in the Druid rescourses thread anywhere? Or did you get them from somewhere else?
~Tuna
Macro 1:
/cast [target=Nameoftank] Lifebloom
Macro 2:
/cast [target=Nameofothertank] Lifebloom
Macro 3:
/cast [target=Nameofmeatsheild3] Lifebloom
/cast [target=Nameoftank] Lifebloom
Macro 2:
/cast [target=Nameofothertank] Lifebloom
Macro 3:
/cast [target=Nameofmeatsheild3] Lifebloom
Scholar
32 posts
/doh
So you just redo the macro each time, its not some complicated macro that stacks them then refreshes every 6.9 seconds...phhft, fine.
Thanks :)
So you just redo the macro each time, its not some complicated macro that stacks them then refreshes every 6.9 seconds...phhft, fine.
Thanks :)
The mouseover thing:
/cast [target=mouseover,help,nodead][help][target=player]Lifebloom
Just replace "Lifebloom" with any other spell. Nice thing is that mouseover works on party and raid frames as well as on the character so it's really a "point & shoot"
And the focus thing:
During trash fights I usually have Focus set to "my" tank
/castsequence [target=focus, noharm] reset=7 Lifebloom, Rejuvenation, Lifebloom
I'm setting focus on the boss whenever they drop aggro continuously, target random players, or anything like that
/castsequence [target=focustarget, noharm]reset=7 Lifebloom, Rejuvenation, Lifebloom
/cast [target=mouseover,help,nodead][help][target=player]Lifebloom
Just replace "Lifebloom" with any other spell. Nice thing is that mouseover works on party and raid frames as well as on the character so it's really a "point & shoot"
And the focus thing:
During trash fights I usually have Focus set to "my" tank
/castsequence [target=focus, noharm] reset=7 Lifebloom, Rejuvenation, Lifebloom
I'm setting focus on the boss whenever they drop aggro continuously, target random players, or anything like that
/castsequence [target=focustarget, noharm]reset=7 Lifebloom, Rejuvenation, Lifebloom
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32 posts
Lol...I haven't really used any macro's like that accept for a mouseover Counterspell for my mage and distracting shot for my hunter. What do you mean by the focus you are setting? Is that who you're targeting?
WoW lets you set a focus target, it's something that will be targeted until you clear your focus. For example, a mage could make a macro to poly his focus target. Set the focus target, poly it, and you can DPS the main target without ever having to switch back.
Some unit frames addons (like xPerl) will let you set up a frame so you can watch your focus target, just like your regular target. This also incluses showing target of target.
Some unit frames addons (like xPerl) will let you set up a frame so you can watch your focus target, just like your regular target. This also incluses showing target of target.
I'm a bit confused about something here, just a question, probably not thread-worthy, but since Restokin has great mana regen due to Dreamstate, which is in the Balance tree, then how come Boomkins always run out of mana very quickly? Even adapted the nickname "oomkin". Shouldn't the Dreamstate talent basically prevent them from losing mana like Restokins?
Quote:
Restokin has great mana regen due to Dreamstate
Not exactly... mana regeneration isn't great at all until you add Intensity. Without it - either because you spent your points elsewhere or you're simply too low in level, you'll find yourself OOM quite often :)
Also, Mages have Evocate and mana gems, Warlocks can Lifetap, Shadow Priests are their own mana battery, Ele Shamans have reduced mana costs when they crit. Boomkins have... Innervate, which usually goes to a healer in a raid. Innervate is also based on Spirit regen for a build that relies more on Int.
Shadow Priests are only their own mana battery once they are well geared. My 70 SP is in mainly quest rewards but has the full Frozen Shadoweave set. When I do an instance, everyone in my group has nice mana after each fight but I have to drink :(
I look forward to getting some more upgrades so that this isn't the case.
I look forward to getting some more upgrades so that this isn't the case.
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