Looking over the list again, it's obvious a lot of abilities are not yet implimented. In addition to the taunt there's only a single disease ability (Plague Strike), which seems... odd, given the way the talent's are worded unless the Ghouls have oodles of them, which I guess is possible.
A few I forgot to mention; DKs can sacrifice their ghouls for some healing, and Frost Presence for DKs is a 45% boost to armor (which means they're not far off Warrior armor, albeit without Shield Block).
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Well, there's this:
Which has obvious druid crushing application 0_o but also count as one more disease from a PVE point of view.
Degeneration + Plague Strike + Blood Strike (Or heart strike) until disease fall off seems like a start.
Some Talent (like Crypt Fever) can also go from 'meh' to 'holy **** that's broken!' depending on how many disease are actually available. A 6% Attribute lost PER disease get pretty bad *** if the DK can put 3 (And he should be, Plague Strike, Degeneration and Unholy Blight are all disease ability we know about and their description make them sound like 3 different debuff) or more disease on a target...
That's a lot of dps lost and a sizable chunk of HP as well.
The talent says it also applies to the disease from the Ghouls... Imagine if DK and Ghoul's disease are 'different', allowing for 4-5 difference disease on a target...
Quote:
Degeneration (Rank 3, Level 76) - Instantly attack the target, dealing 60% weapon damage and inflicting a disease dealing ${$m2*7} over 15 sec. This disease will corrupt an existing heal over time spell, removing it and dramatically increasing the damage dealt. While afflicted by this disease, other heal over time effects on the target will have no effect.
Which has obvious druid crushing application 0_o but also count as one more disease from a PVE point of view.
Degeneration + Plague Strike + Blood Strike (Or heart strike) until disease fall off seems like a start.
Some Talent (like Crypt Fever) can also go from 'meh' to 'holy **** that's broken!' depending on how many disease are actually available. A 6% Attribute lost PER disease get pretty bad *** if the DK can put 3 (And he should be, Plague Strike, Degeneration and Unholy Blight are all disease ability we know about and their description make them sound like 3 different debuff) or more disease on a target...
That's a lot of dps lost and a sizable chunk of HP as well.
The talent says it also applies to the disease from the Ghouls... Imagine if DK and Ghoul's disease are 'different', allowing for 4-5 difference disease on a target...
Well, given the way that ability is written I assume it has a (fairly hefty) cooldown, which means it's not something that's going to be a consistent boost for DPS. Still, I see your point; I just think the majority of diseases are either going to be implemented later or come from the Ghouls themselves (or both).
It's kinda weird how the Frost tree doesn't really 'feel' like a tanking tree.
I mean, sure it has some Threat move and Armors, but for the most part it's all about increase the damage/control of your frost abilities. Making the Frost DK sound like a pvp class focused on controlling the battlefield.
It has been said that they will 'cause threat by doing damage' but I have a hard time believing that's going to happen mainly by grabbing every '+10% damage to X ability' talent in there.
Seems like something like this might be the tanking spec, focusing on spamming Deathchill (AE taunt effect) and other Rune abilities in order to have 0 Runes to proc Blade Barrier as often as possible, hence making yourself have the 102% mitigation necessary to tank...
Edited, May 22nd 2008 1:49pm by Tyrandor
I mean, sure it has some Threat move and Armors, but for the most part it's all about increase the damage/control of your frost abilities. Making the Frost DK sound like a pvp class focused on controlling the battlefield.
It has been said that they will 'cause threat by doing damage' but I have a hard time believing that's going to happen mainly by grabbing every '+10% damage to X ability' talent in there.
Seems like something like this might be the tanking spec, focusing on spamming Deathchill (AE taunt effect) and other Rune abilities in order to have 0 Runes to proc Blade Barrier as often as possible, hence making yourself have the 102% mitigation necessary to tank...
Edited, May 22nd 2008 1:49pm by Tyrandor
im quite curious as to how the ghouls will play into all this. will they be treants mk 2, or are they going to actually have some meat to them?
Some article (I think its' the tenton hammer one) said they actually had some kind of Intercept ability and of course they can spread disease.
Remember a raised player gets to control the Ghoul, it'd be pretty boring if all it did was auto-attack.
Remember a raised player gets to control the Ghoul, it'd be pretty boring if all it did was auto-attack.
yeah, true. but all ghouls cant be raised players. some will likely be AI controlled. im just worried theyll be as much of a joke for aoe as treants are, or even single target dps like hunter and lock pets.
Once again, the DK has an ability to heal his ghouls.
I really think they're going to have more staying power then Treants.
They do requires a corpse, which can be a pretty tricky reagent in some situation...
I really think they're going to have more staying power then Treants.
They do requires a corpse, which can be a pretty tricky reagent in some situation...
yeah, hopefully thatll be enough to make ghouls hardier. im still gonna take a worst-case scenario stance tho; that way *all* my surprises are pleasant lol.
10 posts
Has anyone else wondered if ghouls will be useable in arena cause that would make DK's pretty usefull their if they aren't killed first they can just bring their partner back into the game as a ghoul seems like it would be pretty nice to be able to do that.
I expect it will be possible (after all it's a major class mechanic) but I don't think it will be much good. To be balanced Ghouls will need to be seriously short om HP, particularly in an Arena environment, and seeing as Paladins can cause quick damage to Undead targets (and Fear them too) I dont think they'll be a gamewinner.
I anticipate some frolics with their charge and stun maneuver, but after that's blown they'll die extremely fast.
I anticipate some frolics with their charge and stun maneuver, but after that's blown they'll die extremely fast.
now that the NDA has been lifted and a bunch of updates have occurred, ive been fooling around with more DK talent builds in light of the new changes.
yes, i know this stuff will likely change again over the course of beta, but i like my speculation dagnabbit!
pvp blood/frost build. designed for 2's, it offers control, damage, and survivability:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?deathknight=23005150130000000000000000050305513151003101301300135100000000000000000000000000000
the "main" tanking build tyr discussed earlier has been nixed with the movement of blade barrier deeper into blood. this has the secondary effect of opening up a more blood-oriented tank tree, instead of the best possible tank build being a frost/blood mix. heres my take on it:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?deathknight=05005153330331251013523030103250012000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
not sure if heart strike will work on bosses, but taking a point out of might of mograine to use there isnt a problem.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?deathknight=05005050030000000000000000000000000000000000000000000023305201520310000510155003051
anti-magic focused unholy build. not much to work with in unholy as far as tanking goes, but the few talents that do exist are pretty nice.
yes, i know this stuff will likely change again over the course of beta, but i like my speculation dagnabbit!
pvp blood/frost build. designed for 2's, it offers control, damage, and survivability:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?deathknight=23005150130000000000000000050305513151003101301300135100000000000000000000000000000
the "main" tanking build tyr discussed earlier has been nixed with the movement of blade barrier deeper into blood. this has the secondary effect of opening up a more blood-oriented tank tree, instead of the best possible tank build being a frost/blood mix. heres my take on it:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?deathknight=05005153330331251013523030103250012000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
not sure if heart strike will work on bosses, but taking a point out of might of mograine to use there isnt a problem.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?deathknight=05005050030000000000000000000000000000000000000000000023305201520310000510155003051
anti-magic focused unholy build. not much to work with in unholy as far as tanking goes, but the few talents that do exist are pretty nice.
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