I come to you a very sad Tankadin. I will tell you my tale, a tale told many a time. Something a lot of us, namely Horde Tankadins may see on a regular basis. I present to you:
My Story of Another Person Who Thinks Only Warriors Can Tank And I Hate Him: Resurrection - The Sinaura story.. version 2.11..
So every Sunday I run Gruul/Mags with a group of people I'm getting to know. I only roll with them during 25mans as they were in need of a tank, and I apparently wowed the leader of their runs, a DPS warrior, during a heroic. Continuing on, the leader knows I can tank, and knows I am damn good at it, and has confidence in me that I appreciate. Last night, the normal leader had a family emergency and couldn't make it last minute, and doesn't know if he'll be able to make it for a while(as in more than one Sunday). So the lead is tossed to someone else, a Prot Warrior.
Once I realize the new leader is a Prot Warrior, I'll admit, I'm pretty biased on the attitudes on Prot Warriors when it comes to other classes doing "their job" and I panicked a little. So we have 4 Warrior tanks and 2 Prot Pallies including myself, and a guy in mostly greens/blues who honestly shouldn't have been there.. When we get to the first pull the MT accidentally pulls 2 extra ogres so I nab one of them, the leader kills his target and immediately runs to me and taunts it off of me. I tried not to think much of it, I'm not going to waste mana pulling it back off him so I just twiddled my thumbs and continued on. The next 2 pulls before the 1st boss went the same way, I OTed something and he'd take it off me. I still tried to keep a good attitude about it, I really do enjoy just being there.
So we get to the first boss, he has me taking the warlock with him.. I'd first like to state that if you're doing that math; we have 6 tanks, one of which is VERY under-geared and 6 enemies to tank(including a fel hound or 2 as we only had one lock). One mage was tanking the mage Ogre as well. So I was paired up with a Warrior and of course the other pally tank was paired up with a warrior. Secondly, THIS is my character sheet. "Read em and weep."
Gruuls was quite fun. It consisted of me making the "thumbs up" signal with my hand, and sitting firmly upon it. I now know my thumb very well.
Next was Mags. For the kill order of the warlocks it was the leader's target, then one of the warriors, then me, then the other pally, then the last warrior(the 4th warrior had to leave after Gruuls, I believe). First target down, the SECOND the leader's target is down he rushes directly to my target to "assist" me or some sh*t. I'm honestly not very clear on what was going through this guy's head. It took 2 tries to get Mags down, and both times this was the pattern. Now you might be asking yourself, "Sin? Why would this guy go help you out when you're @#%^ing amazing and the other Pally was undergeared?" I'll respond with a "I don't friggin know, sir/ma'am."
This guy wasn't dumb, he wasn't a noob, he did actually know his stuff. But he is a 100% old-skooler(still thinks only Warriors can tank anything endgame) who knows nothing of Paladins, specifically tanking. The night consisted of insult after insult from this guy and I am unable to sit in a chair properly from all the ********-thumbing I was doing last night.
I'll wrap this up by saying I am in-fact, the sh*t. I'm not the best known pally, but I'm somewhat well known on my server for being "the" good tankadin. I haven't run with another Prot pally that was as good as I am, only one came close but their gear selection was a little off. I'm not an extremely confident person, but if there's one thing I know I am better at than most, it is being a tankadin in WoW(as sad as that sounds). That might sound a bit @#%^-ish, but take from it what you will.
There is my sob story, and it is a good solid 5mins of QQ. My heart goes out to those that put up with this crap on a regular basis. It rarely happens to me, but I don't normally go outside my guild until these last couple months.
Edited, Apr 21st 2008 4:07pm by TacticalRage
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So.. nowhere in your story did you mention telling the guy this.. Did you?
Nah, just did as I was told. I don't know anyone in their raid well enough to tell him I'm fine on my own. I'm not one to raise hell. Just wait till the normal leader gets back. Just thought I'd vent my story to the boards for anyone else who is having the same frustrations.
::EDIT::
Very tempted to invite him to a heroic on another one of his toons(if he has one) so I can "proove my worth" so-to-speak. People should know we're just as valuable as any warrior out there imo.
Edited, Apr 21st 2008 4:33pm by TacticalRage
::EDIT::
Very tempted to invite him to a heroic on another one of his toons(if he has one) so I can "proove my worth" so-to-speak. People should know we're just as valuable as any warrior out there imo.
Edited, Apr 21st 2008 4:33pm by TacticalRage
TacticalRage wrote:
Nah, just did as I was told. I don't know anyone in their raid well enough to tell him I'm fine on my own. I'm not one to raise hell. Just wait till the normal leader gets back. Just thought I'd vent my story to the boards for anyone else who is having the same frustrations.
If you don't want to go the whole "I'm fine leave me alone" route, you could have at least gone the "Go help Bob instead, he needs it more than me" route. That way you're still giving him a way to feel useful.
If that doesn't work, start taunting your mobs back.
If that still doesn't work, start BoPing him.
I've had to do all of the above at some time or another.
Quote:
If that still doesn't work, start BoPing him.
ROFL
Maybe if he was just a member, but he was the leader of those runs. Fun idea, though not much on the "playing well with others" front. =P
TacticalRage wrote:
Quote:
If that still doesn't work, start BoPing him.
ROFL
Maybe if he was just a member, but he was the leader of those runs. Fun idea, though not much on the "playing well with others" front. =P
Yeah it might not go over so well if he's the leader, but I've done that to feral druids that liked to taunt off of me in Black Temple. I have an addon that tells me when my target is taunted so I knew what was goin on.
I wouldn't take crap from anyone. I'd have told him to stuff it and left the raid. Frack them!
Hey Ialaman, what's the add-on that tells you when your target gets taunted?
Scholar
18 posts
Hey thought I'd throw a little warrior perspective on this pally ruled thread. I don't know if you've rolled a warrior before, but it doesn't appear to be in your class list so I'm just going to assume you haven't.
Now you've said there was an under geared pally in there trying to tank without help, you and some warriors are off tanking leaving the under geared fellow to possibly lose agro or die?
You didn't mention the other pally dying so healers must of been keeping heals up, but surely this is going to make it a little more costly on mana rather then if someone better geared had been keeping the agro off said other pally.
I won't deny that tankadins are freaking amazing when they tank. I've been impressed by them, however the warrior is still going to be preferable to certain tanking duties. This is mainly for the defensive stance's +50% threat modifier, prot warriors also receive another threat bonus through talents which a paladin does lack.
There is class skills you also need to take into account, like the warriors taunt being free and improved again via talents. Class skills the warrior brings as you'd know can change the balance of fights granted there's no 6sec stun like you guys, just lots more opportunities to get in smaller stuns.
I know its a long post, just wanted to add some valid points. I do agree with you though there was no need for the fill in leader to behave the way he did, unfortunately some people do forget this is just a game ^_^ I hope that I've given some insight as it is not my intention to offend any of you.
Now you've said there was an under geared pally in there trying to tank without help, you and some warriors are off tanking leaving the under geared fellow to possibly lose agro or die?
You didn't mention the other pally dying so healers must of been keeping heals up, but surely this is going to make it a little more costly on mana rather then if someone better geared had been keeping the agro off said other pally.
I won't deny that tankadins are freaking amazing when they tank. I've been impressed by them, however the warrior is still going to be preferable to certain tanking duties. This is mainly for the defensive stance's +50% threat modifier, prot warriors also receive another threat bonus through talents which a paladin does lack.
There is class skills you also need to take into account, like the warriors taunt being free and improved again via talents. Class skills the warrior brings as you'd know can change the balance of fights granted there's no 6sec stun like you guys, just lots more opportunities to get in smaller stuns.
I know its a long post, just wanted to add some valid points. I do agree with you though there was no need for the fill in leader to behave the way he did, unfortunately some people do forget this is just a game ^_^ I hope that I've given some insight as it is not my intention to offend any of you.
I realize that every class has their place and are preferred to certain instances over other classes. My point was I was extremely frustrated and confused as to why this Warrior was acting the way he did. My assumptions were that the other pally and the leader have a friendship within the game, and thus believes his pally in greens inside 25mans can do no wrong. It's not because he's a warrior, it's because he was himself. The fact that he was a warrior did nothing for Pally tank assumptions, however.
I agree, it would take more mana to keep the other pally up. My point isn't the mana, it's the fact that he seemed to be so blinding by personal feelings that he was putting a wipe at risk. Again, I wasn't running the thing, he was. I didn't know these people, and I'm not going to raise hell just to get kicked. Just smile and do as you're told lol.
All in all, I guess I just got used to not getting this type of treatment. But I think I handled it okay, even if I needed to ***** to you all about it at a later date. =P
Thanks for the perspective, I do appreciate it, but this was just meant as a release for me. Sharing an all too common story around these forums.
Oh, and I do have a 43 warrior, he's my next to get to 70! =D
I agree, it would take more mana to keep the other pally up. My point isn't the mana, it's the fact that he seemed to be so blinding by personal feelings that he was putting a wipe at risk. Again, I wasn't running the thing, he was. I didn't know these people, and I'm not going to raise hell just to get kicked. Just smile and do as you're told lol.
All in all, I guess I just got used to not getting this type of treatment. But I think I handled it okay, even if I needed to ***** to you all about it at a later date. =P
Thanks for the perspective, I do appreciate it, but this was just meant as a release for me. Sharing an all too common story around these forums.
Oh, and I do have a 43 warrior, he's my next to get to 70! =D
nimrokon wrote:
Hey Ialaman, what's the add-on that tells you when your target gets taunted?
I use Debuff Filter, set to only display when a mob is affected by one of the many various taunts in the game, and it displays in the middle of my screen. It doesn't tell me who taunted but that's easy to tell by who the mob is targeting now.
TacticalRage wrote:
My point was I was extremely frustrated and confused as to why this Warrior was acting the way he did. My assumptions were ...
Your assumptions were just assumptions. Guesses made in response to actions viewed. I know this is going to sound trite but you really should have talked to the guy.
Quote:
When we get to the first pull the MT accidentally pulls 2 extra ogres so I nab one of them, the leader kills his target and immediately runs to me and taunts it off of me. I tried not to think much of it, I'm not going to waste mana pulling it back off him so I just twiddled my thumbs and continued on.
See, this is where you should have spoken out. Instead of twiddling your thumbs, you should have (politely, of course) asked him why he took your mob that you were tanking. It may well be that he thought you were having problems, so you could have discussed tactics, how to ask for help, etc.
Quote:
I'll wrap this up by saying I am in-fact, the sh*t.
Badge loot and kara gear is nothing to stroke ones e-peen over. That being said your gear isn't horrible either, in fact for the content you are at you are pretty decently geared.
Leodis does have a point. You need to effectively and politely communicate the need of the other tank not to pull threat off you.
As for skill, well any group that wipes on the nerfed Magtheridon encounter should not be talking skill. As I posted the other day we 15 manned it the other day and most of the people were not even ssc geared.
Leodis does have a point. You need to effectively and politely communicate the need of the other tank not to pull threat off you.
As for skill, well any group that wipes on the nerfed Magtheridon encounter should not be talking skill. As I posted the other day we 15 manned it the other day and most of the people were not even ssc geared.
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
Maybe you just aren't as good as you think you are? I wouldn't exactly call badge loot and kara gear "da sh*tz". Heroics and kara don't exactly display the hardest tanking challenges of all time. Even Zul'jin's pretty much cake.
No doubt your QQing may have been well founded, but saying "I am in-fact, the sh*t." was bound to get you nowhere.
No doubt your QQing may have been well founded, but saying "I am in-fact, the sh*t." was bound to get you nowhere.
Much discussion has been made about skill v gear. I think the general consensus is that greater skill can in some part make up for a lack of gear (upto a certain point).
My point is, the undergeared paladin you mentioned did not die and without evidence to the contrary, must have done his job. Seeing how he was undergeared for the content, I would assume his skill is up to a level as to compensate for it. Would this then make him "Da big Sh@t"?
This pally is guildies with the prot warrior leader is he not? He would/should be aware of what he is capable of in that case and thus felt comfortable leaving him to tank his target and not intervene as he did with you who he did not know.
Of course, without speaking to the leader you cannot know his reasons for doing what he did. I agree that mid raid is no time to be questioning the raidleaders actions but after the raid you certainly should have had a word if only to make the next run smoother.
Lastly, as stated, glorifying yourself and calling yourself "da sh@t" in the content and gear that you are in will get you no sympathy in this forum.
My point is, the undergeared paladin you mentioned did not die and without evidence to the contrary, must have done his job. Seeing how he was undergeared for the content, I would assume his skill is up to a level as to compensate for it. Would this then make him "Da big Sh@t"?
This pally is guildies with the prot warrior leader is he not? He would/should be aware of what he is capable of in that case and thus felt comfortable leaving him to tank his target and not intervene as he did with you who he did not know.
Of course, without speaking to the leader you cannot know his reasons for doing what he did. I agree that mid raid is no time to be questioning the raidleaders actions but after the raid you certainly should have had a word if only to make the next run smoother.
Lastly, as stated, glorifying yourself and calling yourself "da sh@t" in the content and gear that you are in will get you no sympathy in this forum.
Not meaning to necro.
The word "da" isn't something I use on a regular basis, nor did I use it here.. As far as skill goes, I am the best I've seen on my server. I've been around other tankadins that ranged from good to horrible. I am horde, so statistically speaking, there is probably less Paladins on our side, but I don't claim what I did with a light-heart. Just because I've started 25mans in the last month doesn't mean I can't be an extremely skilled tankadin. I am, and I pride myself on this when I play.
As far as talking my feelings out to a "fill-in" leader in the middle of a raid; it is not a good time or place for any of that. I didn't talk it out at inappropriate times because of just that. Now, not talking it out at all? That may be your guy's way of doing things, but it's not mine, I try to "show" not "say". I'll talk on vent when it involves the raid, assistance, saving a wipe, etc. Don't twist my words into meaning that I don't communicate my feelings on someone else's assumptions, and thus don't communicate on anything.. ever.
I am very skilled in my tanking ability with this class because I am always continuing to strive to be better. I read, I write and I run the #'s on a semi-daily basis to keep improving. So when I say something as verbose as "I am..the ****", I don't say it to be a pretentious bastage, I say it because I work to be the best I can. I posted my template to reflect this; show that I'm not undergeared and I gear myself correctly.
That's all I've got. Stating what I did was clearly going to ruffle some feathers, so I apologize for that. Good day.
The word "da" isn't something I use on a regular basis, nor did I use it here.. As far as skill goes, I am the best I've seen on my server. I've been around other tankadins that ranged from good to horrible. I am horde, so statistically speaking, there is probably less Paladins on our side, but I don't claim what I did with a light-heart. Just because I've started 25mans in the last month doesn't mean I can't be an extremely skilled tankadin. I am, and I pride myself on this when I play.
As far as talking my feelings out to a "fill-in" leader in the middle of a raid; it is not a good time or place for any of that. I didn't talk it out at inappropriate times because of just that. Now, not talking it out at all? That may be your guy's way of doing things, but it's not mine, I try to "show" not "say". I'll talk on vent when it involves the raid, assistance, saving a wipe, etc. Don't twist my words into meaning that I don't communicate my feelings on someone else's assumptions, and thus don't communicate on anything.. ever.
I am very skilled in my tanking ability with this class because I am always continuing to strive to be better. I read, I write and I run the #'s on a semi-daily basis to keep improving. So when I say something as verbose as "I am..the ****", I don't say it to be a pretentious bastage, I say it because I work to be the best I can. I posted my template to reflect this; show that I'm not undergeared and I gear myself correctly.
That's all I've got. Stating what I did was clearly going to ruffle some feathers, so I apologize for that. Good day.
TacticalRage wrote:
As far as skill goes, I am the best I've seen on my server.
That's full of win right there.
I'm not going into a debate on skill since there would be no way to quantify it unless we jumped servers and started hitting content together, and frankly I am not giving up my raid spot in Sunwell for that. Looking at your character does show that you have a clear idea of where you are taking him and what is best for the class. How that would transfer over to taking rotating tanking on Alar, or making a smooth transition on Hydross, who knows?
Good luck on Mag though!
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
I BELIEVE I SAID GOOD DAY!
lol, I know how that statement and all my statements look, but as this is a forum and not the game(as you already stated) it's all I have. As trot as it is...
I had an invite to Hydros last night, but it was late, the lady was getting huffy and we all know where that goes. Maybe another night..
lol, I know how that statement and all my statements look, but as this is a forum and not the game(as you already stated) it's all I have. As trot as it is...
I had an invite to Hydros last night, but it was late, the lady was getting huffy and we all know where that goes. Maybe another night..
It won't be a good day as long as you got bod riled up on your *** about something.
Sorry to burst your bubble :P
Sorry to burst your bubble :P
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