My 2v2 is with a Holy/Disc priest with full S2.
I've got the cookie-cutter 20/0/41 build and I'm S3/S1.
We both have 400 resi and decent build, so no problem here.
Yesterday, we went 5 victories / 1 loss which is nice and reached 1625, which is nothing extraordinary. At this level, with our decent stuff and builds, we should do more than fine.
At that point, we met 4 teams with druids and lost them ALL. The reason is that the damn druid is way too versatile:
- if we don't target him, he's a damn good healer and we can't always win the mana war,
- so we've got to target him and he keeps changing forms, insta healing, running in cat form, going bear, etc.
- if you add the nice CC with roots and cyclones, it's pretty tough.
Twice, the druid had like 1% life left and I could not Deadly Throw him before getting charged by the warrior, then cycloned, etc...
Conclusion:
1. Maybe (probably?) druids are over-powered, but that conclusion doesn't help much,
2. So, how do I do it better? What are your tricks to handle druids?
Many thanks in advance to those who can share their wisdom with me, I need to improve on that or our team's never going to get into the 1700 and higher.
Thanks,
nostra
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I'm unable to handle druids, please helpFollow
Druids are the hard part about dpriest/rogue.
There are really two ways to deal with the team as dpriest/rogue I've tried both, and honestly it's a crap shoot both ways.
1) Peel the warrior and stick to the druid. This way works a little worse than my preferred way, which is #2.
2) Go toe to toe with the warrior while your priest does burst CC on the druid as the warrior gets low. i.e. Psychic Scream -> MC -> MC -> Blind (if you can). Force the druid into bear or LOS often by burning the druid as he tries to get LOS to heal his warrior. This way leaves PS available to you in addition to double evasion, GS, etc.
The druid should go OOM way before your priest.
Edit: make sure your priest is dispelling innervate.
Edited, Apr 21st 2008 1:13am by Theophany
There are really two ways to deal with the team as dpriest/rogue I've tried both, and honestly it's a crap shoot both ways.
1) Peel the warrior and stick to the druid. This way works a little worse than my preferred way, which is #2.
2) Go toe to toe with the warrior while your priest does burst CC on the druid as the warrior gets low. i.e. Psychic Scream -> MC -> MC -> Blind (if you can). Force the druid into bear or LOS often by burning the druid as he tries to get LOS to heal his warrior. This way leaves PS available to you in addition to double evasion, GS, etc.
The druid should go OOM way before your priest.
Edit: make sure your priest is dispelling innervate.
Edited, Apr 21st 2008 1:13am by Theophany
Thanks for the reply.
I'm not sure I understand everything you say though.
Your first method is probably what we were trying (alhtough not sure what "peel" means?).
We start with a Sap on the warrior and hopefully an opening on the druid, even though it's pretty tough: we can do that if my partner sees the druid (he's human, so perception) but other than that, the druid usually stays well out of detection range so I have to sap, re-sap and re-re-sap the warrior (or whatever else), and after some time, I have to open on him (not the druid). Which leaves the druid free to heal, root, cyclone, or even damage my priest (they can deal some serious damage).
So I actually switch target at that time, leaving the warrior with crippling poison which should help my priest to kite him a bit while I start beating on the druid. I can usually bring him below 50-40% life quickly, and try to have 5 CPs and 110 energy to do a KS and burst him to death, but that's usually when he starts doing all his sh.t with shape shifting, insta healing and running like a rabbit and it's often hard to stick to him, even with crippling poison (on my OH) and ShS every 30 sec.
During this time, the other buddy (often warrior or whatever) is beating on my priest (who's pretty tough and hard to take down, thanks god!) and I'm just trying to blind him either when the druid is low and I hope to drop him or when my priest is in danger and needs some air. We try to chain blind (if I haven't evaded and vanished by then, I use them because I know I'll soon use Prep to refresh the blind CD), then fear, then blind again. We're not yet excellent at coordinating our efforts to incapacitate the other buddy effectively, but getting better at it. I guess it just takes practice to do these things even in the heat of battle.
I'm not sure if what I described above is understandable, but it's just to give an idea of how we're doing it (or trying to do it).
As for option 2: what do you mean by "burst CC"? Just what you describe, i.e. fear and 2 mind control or sth else?
How to force the druid into bear? I mean, he's doing this only when he gets beaten on badly and needs to survive the beating, and if I understood correctly, I'm suppose to beat on the warrior in this 2nd option.
What do you mean "LOS by burning the druid"? What we're doing is that my priest is usually turning around a pillar to avoid double fire (like from a warrior and hunter). Other than that, we find hard to use LOS to our advantage. I mean, how could we keep a druid out of LOS of his warrior?
My feeling is that, as far arenas are concerned, a lot boils down to prioritizing which target to hit first. We discuss briefly when we determine what combo we're against, but it's usually according to a ranking of the most dangerous classes. For instance, we hit on druids first because, if we don't, they can heal and CC (and even dps). We also usually go first for the warlocks, because otherwise we're up for a nice little chain-fear party. However, when facing a pally, I just sap him and then hit on the other guy, which force them into a defensive posture where the pally is healing while getting mana burt by my priest and we use a mana war. We usually don't focus hunters because they can dps which is annoying, but not that bad as compared to CC; we just try to stay away from their arrows using LOS. Shamys... we stay away from them and from the totems, but sometimes focus them (if they're primary healers). I pretty rarely focus warriors (except in the pally combo as described before) but usually do focus rogues because they can f.ck up my priest quite bad and quickly.
Ok, the above was just to try to show you how we do arenas. I'm thinking there must be sth wrong, so any type of advice would be welcome.
nostra
Edited, Apr 21st 2008 1:57pm by nostraaa
I'm not sure I understand everything you say though.
Your first method is probably what we were trying (alhtough not sure what "peel" means?).
We start with a Sap on the warrior and hopefully an opening on the druid, even though it's pretty tough: we can do that if my partner sees the druid (he's human, so perception) but other than that, the druid usually stays well out of detection range so I have to sap, re-sap and re-re-sap the warrior (or whatever else), and after some time, I have to open on him (not the druid). Which leaves the druid free to heal, root, cyclone, or even damage my priest (they can deal some serious damage).
So I actually switch target at that time, leaving the warrior with crippling poison which should help my priest to kite him a bit while I start beating on the druid. I can usually bring him below 50-40% life quickly, and try to have 5 CPs and 110 energy to do a KS and burst him to death, but that's usually when he starts doing all his sh.t with shape shifting, insta healing and running like a rabbit and it's often hard to stick to him, even with crippling poison (on my OH) and ShS every 30 sec.
During this time, the other buddy (often warrior or whatever) is beating on my priest (who's pretty tough and hard to take down, thanks god!) and I'm just trying to blind him either when the druid is low and I hope to drop him or when my priest is in danger and needs some air. We try to chain blind (if I haven't evaded and vanished by then, I use them because I know I'll soon use Prep to refresh the blind CD), then fear, then blind again. We're not yet excellent at coordinating our efforts to incapacitate the other buddy effectively, but getting better at it. I guess it just takes practice to do these things even in the heat of battle.
I'm not sure if what I described above is understandable, but it's just to give an idea of how we're doing it (or trying to do it).
As for option 2: what do you mean by "burst CC"? Just what you describe, i.e. fear and 2 mind control or sth else?
How to force the druid into bear? I mean, he's doing this only when he gets beaten on badly and needs to survive the beating, and if I understood correctly, I'm suppose to beat on the warrior in this 2nd option.
What do you mean "LOS by burning the druid"? What we're doing is that my priest is usually turning around a pillar to avoid double fire (like from a warrior and hunter). Other than that, we find hard to use LOS to our advantage. I mean, how could we keep a druid out of LOS of his warrior?
My feeling is that, as far arenas are concerned, a lot boils down to prioritizing which target to hit first. We discuss briefly when we determine what combo we're against, but it's usually according to a ranking of the most dangerous classes. For instance, we hit on druids first because, if we don't, they can heal and CC (and even dps). We also usually go first for the warlocks, because otherwise we're up for a nice little chain-fear party. However, when facing a pally, I just sap him and then hit on the other guy, which force them into a defensive posture where the pally is healing while getting mana burt by my priest and we use a mana war. We usually don't focus hunters because they can dps which is annoying, but not that bad as compared to CC; we just try to stay away from their arrows using LOS. Shamys... we stay away from them and from the totems, but sometimes focus them (if they're primary healers). I pretty rarely focus warriors (except in the pally combo as described before) but usually do focus rogues because they can f.ck up my priest quite bad and quickly.
Ok, the above was just to try to show you how we do arenas. I'm thinking there must be sth wrong, so any type of advice would be welcome.
nostra
Edited, Apr 21st 2008 1:57pm by nostraaa
nostraaa wrote:
Thanks for the reply.
I'm not sure I understand everything you say though.
Your first method is probably what we were trying (alhtough not sure what "peel" means?).
I'm not sure I understand everything you say though.
Your first method is probably what we were trying (alhtough not sure what "peel" means?).
<Shameless plug>
Check Theo's PvP FAQ for explanations on the terms used in his post.
</Shameless plug>
Excellent, thanks. I did not remember where I had seen it.
Other than that, comments on the above-mentioned subject matter?
nostra
Other than that, comments on the above-mentioned subject matter?
nostra
Quote:
What do you mean "LOS by burning the druid"? What we're doing is that my priest is usually turning around a pillar to avoid double fire (like from a warrior and hunter). Other than that, we find hard to use LOS to our advantage. I mean, how could we keep a druid out of LOS of his warrior?
by utilizing mana burn and extra damage from your priest.
basically, theo is saying you go 1v1 against the warrior. if he intercepts and gets on your priest, you shs him, kidney shot, and keep him controlled as much as possible. meanwhile, your priest watches out for the druid, and as soon as the druid comes into range to heal, your priest mana burns, adding the odd bit of dps onto the warrior when possible (this forces the druid out faster). with inner fire, PSW and renew/prom going, your priest should be able to last a good deal of time vs the warrior, even if youre feeding the warrior rage. the druid has no choice but to heal the warrior (who is likely in zerker stance....if hes not, have your priest fear him for some more breathing room if needed, but save the fear for the druid first if you can), so when the druid comes out, your priest says "hi2u!" with a nice chunk of burned mana bar.
this forces your druid to play the "in and out" game, dropping instant cast stuff on the warrior to keep him alive. your priest can then dispel the instant cast hots (watch out for lifebloom, try to dispel it at 2 or 3 stacks, not 1 stack) giving you a healing advantage. this will again force the druid to come back out and apply more heals, suppressing the druids ability to drink and eventually forcing the druid to heal using larger direct heals that cant be dispelled (and leaving him more susceptible to mana burn).
Ouch, good stuff. Thanks a LOT. I'll send a link to this thread to my priest :)
nostra
nostra
Also, if you're in BEA, if you get the warrior low and the druid pops out of hiding to heal, have your priest drop an MC on him and walk him off the bridge if you're on top of it.
Big LOS = you win. Then you just have to pop your buttons and your priest can jump down after the MC is up and fear.
Big LOS = you win. Then you just have to pop your buttons and your priest can jump down after the MC is up and fear.
Ok, thanks for the help. We should be doing better now!
nostra
nostra
Hiya.
Will Preparation once again refresh the Blind cooldown? Shmii is confused.
Nostraa wrote:
We try to chain blind (if I haven't evaded and vanished by then, I use them because I know I'll soon use Prep to refresh the blind CD)
Will Preparation once again refresh the Blind cooldown? Shmii is confused.
Shmii, Defender of Justice wrote:
Hiya.
Will Preparation once again refresh the Blind cooldown? Shmii is confused.
Nostraa wrote:
We try to chain blind (if I haven't evaded and vanished by then, I use them because I know I'll soon use Prep to refresh the blind CD)
Will Preparation once again refresh the Blind cooldown? Shmii is confused.
Uh-No!
I wish it did, training 2 blinds on the priest that just trinketed into a sheep would be IMBAH!
Actually, I stopped doing arena for about 3 months and when I started again after 2.4, I assumed it did. Just noticed 2 days ago (after posting) that it did not. My apologies :)
nostra
nostra
A good Rogue/Priest beat my Rogue/Druid as follows:
Mana BURNNNNNNN ...
seriously.
Priest casts Mana Burn every time the Druid is in sight. I can kick some of them, but often I'm feared and the Druid has to bear up. Bear form costs a LOT of mana, and gives you a great chance to do some burst DPS. When you start bursting, the Druid has to come out of Bear Form at which point you can either (a) have your priest fear him into another Mana Burn or (b) DPS the smack out of him, forcing him to blow his cooldowns and/or bear up when fear ends or (c) DPS the enemy DPS in hopes of forcing an NS heal and/or swiftmend, and then jumping the Druid w/out healing cooldowns up.
There is no easy way to beat Druids ... but with practice Rogue/Dpriest has the potential to overcome at least some Druid/DPS comps.
The main problem Jord is that a warrior is a lot more dangerous in this situation.
Good warriors are going to put up a shield and let you hit him for 100 damage while his druid dances behind pillars and only comes out to toss a LB, Rejuv, and Abolish.
Then if your priest is dispelling, he'll basically be doing the druid's work for him.
Really the only thing you can do in that situation is try and save energy for a long burst (put up SnD and wait til you have a full energy bar, then burn all of it really quick on the warrior) to force the druid out, then quickly shiv crip on the warrior and ShS to the druid.
If you can keep up with the druid then, you're golden.
Good warriors are going to put up a shield and let you hit him for 100 damage while his druid dances behind pillars and only comes out to toss a LB, Rejuv, and Abolish.
Then if your priest is dispelling, he'll basically be doing the druid's work for him.
Really the only thing you can do in that situation is try and save energy for a long burst (put up SnD and wait til you have a full energy bar, then burn all of it really quick on the warrior) to force the druid out, then quickly shiv crip on the warrior and ShS to the druid.
If you can keep up with the druid then, you're golden.
10 posts
Just started a 2v2 with a priest and so far we havent done badly. Druids are diffucult, but believe me when I say that if I can handle them so can you. Im quite terrible at pvp and arena's, but what has helped me trememdously is this little guide I found.
http://www.zuggaming.com/node/225
We went 9-5 this evening, 3 lost to the SAME hunter/druid team which were decked out in S3 (im in S1 and my partner is a mix of S2 and S1, so frustrating!). The other two matches...one was rogue/priest, the other two subt rogues. Anyways, hope that link helps you out!
http://www.zuggaming.com/node/225
We went 9-5 this evening, 3 lost to the SAME hunter/druid team which were decked out in S3 (im in S1 and my partner is a mix of S2 and S1, so frustrating!). The other two matches...one was rogue/priest, the other two subt rogues. Anyways, hope that link helps you out!
Good to know that when I give good viable advice that I get karma trolled.
We have some really butt-hurt people on this forum.
We have some really butt-hurt people on this forum.
Overlord Theophany wrote:
Good to know that when I give good viable advice that I get karma trolled.
We have some really butt-hurt people on this forum.
We have some really butt-hurt people on this forum.
Rogues are sneaky ... They just hide in the shadows and rate down :P DOn't worry I rated you up cause I like the way you roll.
Anyway-
To the OP.
SHIV SHIV SHIV SHIV SHIV SPAM.
I was after a resto druid last night in a BG. (Yes, it was only a BG, but he had S3 shoulders on). Every time he shifted, I just spammed Shiv. It took me 2 minutes, but I ran him OOM from shifting, KS'd him in caster, and BOOM he was dead.
The second they get away in Travel without a Shiv, pop something to catch him. A Shadowstep Shiv macro works wonders here. Deadly Throw works, too, as does Sprint.
Edited, Apr 25th 2008 9:29am by Jordster
Im with a hunter and we take down druids pretty quick but we are both dps, with a healer it would be harder.. But would you rather:
1. 2 DPS and being able to take down a druid.
2. Or not being able to get past 1600 rating (us) ? :(
1. 2 DPS and being able to take down a druid.
2. Or not being able to get past 1600 rating (us) ? :(
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