Noob question coming up :)
I am currently remapping my key bindings. I realized that I rarely if ever use gouge or kidney shot. I am combat spec and only ever stun to bandage. I was wondering in what situations people use gouge and kidney shot, and whether one is generally more useful than the other.
In other words, do I need ready access to both, or do people end up using just one or the other?
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Gouge vs Kidney ShotFollow
Well, what do you want to do? In pve, as combat you will very rarely use either one, and you can bandage in between fights. I find kidney shot to be more useful for incapacitating enemies while you kill them. Pvp is gonna be different I'd imagine.
Thanks. I should have mentioned I don't pvp yet.
Solo PVE Mutilate Rotation:
Cheap Shot -> Mutilate (now have 5 CPs), wait till ~70 energy, KS -> get behind it and 2x mutilate. mob is usually dead, and if its not, you have 5 CPs to use for eviscerate.
CS and KS are key here. and with improved KS and finding weakness talents you get +19% damage after a KS, combine that with improved crit chance with puncturing wounds, and +50% damage from poisoned targets and your mutilates are pretty sick.
for combat swords,
in PVP, using gouge (when you have improved gouge) gives you 5.5 seconds. if you run away from the target by the time he comes out of gouge the 5 seconds required to get out of combat will pass, and you can re-stealth. (in PVP combat only its 5 seconds of no damage to get you out of combat), this lets you open with another CS. You can also use KS similarly. using KS CS gouge and blind you can easily keep a single target stun locked for an extended period of time. if they dont have any trinkets up or something you can easily take an enemy down. this usually throws off their usual rotations too as they panic if they are stunned twice in a row.
Also, using KS on flag runners in WSG is amazing because it gives your allies time to catch up and ***** up the flag carrier.
oh, to make it clear, gouge breaks if you hit the target or if it takes any damage (dots). Same goes for blind and sap.
However, cheap shot and kidney shot do not break when the target takes damage. they are amazing pvp tools.
also, gouge is on a 10 second cooldown, kidney shot is on 20. and they both will stop targets from casting spells if your kick is down.
Edited, Apr 20th 2008 10:47pm by EnthalpyTheBurninator
Cheap Shot -> Mutilate (now have 5 CPs), wait till ~70 energy, KS -> get behind it and 2x mutilate. mob is usually dead, and if its not, you have 5 CPs to use for eviscerate.
CS and KS are key here. and with improved KS and finding weakness talents you get +19% damage after a KS, combine that with improved crit chance with puncturing wounds, and +50% damage from poisoned targets and your mutilates are pretty sick.
for combat swords,
in PVP, using gouge (when you have improved gouge) gives you 5.5 seconds. if you run away from the target by the time he comes out of gouge the 5 seconds required to get out of combat will pass, and you can re-stealth. (in PVP combat only its 5 seconds of no damage to get you out of combat), this lets you open with another CS. You can also use KS similarly. using KS CS gouge and blind you can easily keep a single target stun locked for an extended period of time. if they dont have any trinkets up or something you can easily take an enemy down. this usually throws off their usual rotations too as they panic if they are stunned twice in a row.
Also, using KS on flag runners in WSG is amazing because it gives your allies time to catch up and ***** up the flag carrier.
oh, to make it clear, gouge breaks if you hit the target or if it takes any damage (dots). Same goes for blind and sap.
However, cheap shot and kidney shot do not break when the target takes damage. they are amazing pvp tools.
also, gouge is on a 10 second cooldown, kidney shot is on 20. and they both will stop targets from casting spells if your kick is down.
Edited, Apr 20th 2008 10:47pm by EnthalpyTheBurninator
Thanks for that info. That's exactly what I wanted to know!!!
For PvE, you won't be using Gouge very much, if at all. There's simply better ways to incapacitate a target temporarily (Blind n' Bandage), or interrupt spells (Kick). Kidney shot is a whole different story, but you'll only use it when soloing, and honestly, not that much. The only times I ever use KS while soloing is when I need to interrupt a spell and Kick/Gouge are on cooldown.
In PvP, I use Gouge like it's going out of style, especially when facing multiple enemies. Kidney Shot is just as useful since it allows you to stunlock very effectively. Premed > CS > KS > Gouge > Blind > Vanish > Sap = 30+ seconds of total lockdown. Very useful for taking healers out of the fight, or for killing those pesky warlocks.
In PvP, I use Gouge like it's going out of style, especially when facing multiple enemies. Kidney Shot is just as useful since it allows you to stunlock very effectively. Premed > CS > KS > Gouge > Blind > Vanish > Sap = 30+ seconds of total lockdown. Very useful for taking healers out of the fight, or for killing those pesky warlocks.
Jophiel wrote:
I managed to be both retarded and entertaining.
Blind n' Bandage is what I do if I need to (I tend to continue attacking things even at low health)...
Pretty much what the others said above, I rarely use KS or Gouge... only in the fair few times, like if a mob is running away (most likely towards other mobs).
Pretty much what the others said above, I rarely use KS or Gouge... only in the fair few times, like if a mob is running away (most likely towards other mobs).
You won't need stuns often soloing as Combat. I use Kidney Shot if I'm low on health or to interrupt spellcasting when Kick is on cooldown.
With Mutilate you're obviously going to be using both of them way more often.
With Mutilate you're obviously going to be using both of them way more often.
I guess come down to your build & playing style. I use cs alot in most battle unless my target can't stun but I never use gouge. I can see why somebody would use gouge.
Why wouldn't a Combat leveler use KS?
CS -> SS -> SS -> KS (4 pt) -> SS -> SS = dead mob and Rogue takes ZERO damage. Eviscerate is generally a waste of combo points until you have enough attack power to back it up, whereas SS is a pretty reliable DPS attack as long as you are wielding a slow blue weapon near your level.
(note - bad gear will cause the mob to live through that attack).
Jordster, Assassin Reject wrote:
Why wouldn't a Combat leveler use KS?
CS -> SS -> SS -> KS (4 pt) -> SS -> SS = dead mob and Rogue takes ZERO damage. Eviscerate is generally a waste of combo points until you have enough attack power to back it up, whereas SS is a pretty reliable DPS attack as long as you are wielding a slow blue weapon near your level.
(note - bad gear will cause the mob to live through that attack).
Depending on my mood (or what I'm fighting) I either use kidney shot every single fight, or envenom every single fight. With kidney shot, you usually take very little damage. The fight might go on a teeny longer, but you can grind longer. If I'm feeling particularly lazy though, I'll take the extra hit for the fight to be over and me have to jam the hemo/SS a few less times. :P
p.s. I used to *never* use envenom because it uses your poison charges. But now, for raid trash or soloing, the monster is probably going to be dead then or very soon after. Rupture is great but you're probably going to get about 1 tick, hardly worth it. Eviscerate takes too much energy and you usually end up with the mob dying with 5 points on it. Envenom is cheap and consistently does more damage than eviscerate.
Sometimes solo play, I'll go CS->hemox3/4-> and then if they don't have 5 points I'll shiv them one or twice then envenom. Seems to work ok. Anyone else ever use envenom? :P
Edited, Apr 23rd 2008 2:04pm by digitalcraft
2 posts
i use both quite a bit, but i'm assasin spec with daggers, i absoluty cannot stand combat spec and something about using swords or maces just bothers me(that and it helps i get lucky on drops and can't find a sword or mace that has a higher dps than what im using in the ah) even though i'm only 35~ and grinding/questing pretty well 100% right now
my fights usually go cs > bs > gauge > bs > ks > bs > gauge > bs, sometimes i'll open with ambush just for ***** and giggles, that and vs a mage type ambush gauge bs ks bs will kill it almost indeffinatly, if not, wash rinse repeat til winrar.
i can usually solo mobs 4-5 lvls higher than me and take very low damage if any at all, and i'm undead with alc so in the off chance i get low i can just eat the mobs or drink some pots
i can see why people would not like doing all that bs'ing though, so much running around i probably look like a psychotic moron tryin in manual dodge lol
my fights usually go cs > bs > gauge > bs > ks > bs > gauge > bs, sometimes i'll open with ambush just for ***** and giggles, that and vs a mage type ambush gauge bs ks bs will kill it almost indeffinatly, if not, wash rinse repeat til winrar.
i can usually solo mobs 4-5 lvls higher than me and take very low damage if any at all, and i'm undead with alc so in the off chance i get low i can just eat the mobs or drink some pots
i can see why people would not like doing all that bs'ing though, so much running around i probably look like a psychotic moron tryin in manual dodge lol
Don't see much point in trying to compare an ability that ADDS combo points to one that USES them.
Gauge allows dagger rogues to get behind the target without having to be stealthed. For a Muti spec that's at least 3 points to play with.
Gauge is also a safety net for me. It's sitting on the same key as CS, so whenever I'm pulled out of stealth for whatever reason right before a CS, I end up using Gauge instead.
Gauge allows dagger rogues to get behind the target without having to be stealthed. For a Muti spec that's at least 3 points to play with.
Gauge is also a safety net for me. It's sitting on the same key as CS, so whenever I'm pulled out of stealth for whatever reason right before a CS, I end up using Gauge instead.
I always farm/grind w/ PvP poisons on ... Busy PvP server ... So I can't envenom :P
...I'm glad nobody pointed out evisc and envenom have the same energy cost. 
digitalcraft, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
...I'm glad nobody pointed out evisc and envenom have the same energy cost.
Notable: 10 more energy than KS.
When I leveled combat I never used KS unless I had been fighting non humanoid mobs for ages and had ran out of bandages/cloth to make them. When you only need to bandage once every 5 to 6 fights and it takes 8 seconds, you may as well Evisc.
Kavekk wrote:
When I leveled combat I never used KS unless I had been fighting non humanoid mobs for ages and had ran out of bandages/cloth to make them. When you only need to bandage once every 5 to 6 fights and it takes 8 seconds, you may as well Evisc.
I guess it depends what level the mob is in relation to you. +1 and +2 you're not going to go 5-6 mobs within one health bar... Unless you're really twinked.
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