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Wind Serpents with %crit> Ravagers ?Follow

#1 Apr 20 2008 at 1:19 PM Rating: Decent
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I have been told that wind serpents, with 35%+ crit chance, will do more damage than ravagers due to the crits on GftT and B.Disp.

I have ~45% crit raid buffed, a .01% chance to miss (8.99 ftl hehe) and i cant see this happening (also cookie cutter bm build) the serpent doesn't stay on the target, and constantly swoops in and out to hit with LB as the ravager is stay on Focus fire in your face constant dps with gore and bite on auto.

What am i missing? can anyone comfirm/deny this with some hard evidence? Is there something i can do to stop the serpent from swooping out to LB and swoop back in? Any help would be nice, because from the SS from end game guilds killing the SSO bosses, the hunters also have wind serpents next to them, although much better geared than me, it must mean something.
#2 Apr 20 2008 at 1:38 PM Rating: Decent
Not sure about damage but...

Dimion wrote:
Is there something i can do to stop the serpent from swooping out to LB and swoop back in?


Remove LB from auto cast and add it to your shot macro.
#3 Apr 20 2008 at 1:49 PM Rating: Good
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27,272 posts
It will probably do more dps, but there is 1 problem..... LB has a stupidly high miss rate and a very low chance to crit.
Wich results in less uptime for FI and thus possibl/probably still a dps loss.

The way to fix that is by using a casterstats WS, wich has a higher critrate on LB's, around the same dps as a normal WS but quite a bit less health.
#4 Apr 20 2008 at 1:57 PM Rating: Decent
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1,519 posts
Well, it might cut out some up-time on FI if you're BM. If you're SV, then it sounds like it should be a pretty decent increase to DPS.
#5 Apr 20 2008 at 6:17 PM Rating: Decent
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459 posts
I would assume it is because of the nature damage caused by your WS's LB. Ravagers cause physical damage which can be hindered greatly by high armor targets. Nature damage, however, is not hindered by armor, only by nature resistance.

With my main character being a rogue, I highly prefer envenom over eviscerate, especially with vile poisons. My eviscerate hits for 2k on a crit and my envenom hits for 3.8k on a crit. Not the same scenario when compared to hunters I realize, but if they both had the same tooltip for 500 damage, with eviscerate remaining physical and envenom remaining nature damage, You can bet your @$$ im gonna go for envenom.
#6 Apr 21 2008 at 7:34 AM Rating: Good
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10,601 posts
This thread goes into a fair amount of detail.
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#7 Apr 21 2008 at 1:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Something I've repeatedly see hunters ignore (at least in raids) is the loss of Stormstrike (next 2 nature damage hits for 20% more). This is more abnormal example, but take a Survival hunter with 2400AP and a wind serpent, along with an elemental shammy with +1100dmg who happens to crit. All in all, 650dmg was lost due to the wind serpent eating up the charge.

More realistically, the raid will still be losing over 400 damage every ten seconds due to the wind serpent eating up one of the two charges. Can a wind serpent actually pull a full 40 or 45 dps over a ravager?

EDIT:
Holy ****, I assumed LB got 100% of spell damage from scaling. It only gets 10% according to wowwiki O_O
Wind serpents will have to do more in the region of 50dps over ravagers in order to make up for the loss of a Stormstrike charge, and that was assuming 2400AP from the hunter.

Edited, Apr 21st 2008 5:00pm by lsfreak
#8 Apr 21 2008 at 2:05 PM Rating: Decent
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27,272 posts
lsfreak wrote:
Holy @#%^, I assumed LB got 100% of spell damage from scaling. It only gets 10% according to wowwiki O_O
Its actually even lower, 6.something % coeffecient if i recall correctly.
Along with a 16% chance to see a resist against a raidboss and a low crit%...

Edited, Apr 22nd 2008 12:06am by Aethien
#9 Apr 21 2008 at 9:33 PM Rating: Decent
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415 posts
I have both Ravager and WS. I am 33% crit unbuffed。Both are about same dps, I've ran both in raids and in groups and also tested both pets with same conditions on immortal in blasted lands. Difference is so small that I find it to be inconclusive. However, if you are to have a shaman with spell dmg totem in your group, Use WS. Otherwise stick with ravager.

Edited, Apr 22nd 2008 1:33am by Elustriel
#10 Apr 22 2008 at 7:42 AM Rating: Decent
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2,029 posts
I started a thread on EJ to try and figure out whether the damage buff of WS compared to the loss of damage from an elemental shammy is worth it.
http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t24766-hunter_shaman_wind_serpents_dps_shammies/

As usual, I warn everyone who has not been to EJ not to post unless you know quite a bit about what you're talking about. And are capable of forming complete sentence in English.
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