Blood Frenzy vs 2nd WindFollow

Kinda trying to make up my mind about what to do with my warrior after his tanking career.

So far I did my PvP'in with Second Wind, but seeing how my guild has been low on dps lately (people online that is) I'm quite tempted to go back to my beloved Arms/Fury build a little sooner and start beating on things in Kara with my Lionheart on occasion.

Raiding usually means Blood Frenzy, but I'm wondering how effective it is considering that in the 10 man raids you usually don't have a full melee group.

At the same time I'm wondering what's left of Second Wind once you figure in meta gem, Surefooted, resistances from my sword, and the possibility of a pally blessing that makes you immune to all these nasty things.

Does this one go in favor of dps?

Hehe, that one might work once I hit level 72 :)

I used to play 33/25/3 like this:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LV0fbAbog0zbZVxkA0MRZc

That's how I ground up the honor for the S1 set, and life was good...

But I'm wondering how that would work in a raid setting. Tactical Mastery now adding threat to MS sounds like a bad thing unless I was for whatever reason offtanking Romu..whatever they decided to call Romeo. Sorta worried about ending up tanking without intention.

Flurry... I'd end up putting 5 points into Enrage. While Flurry is great, Enrage becomes more and more useless with every point of resilience I'm adding. 5 points filler for 2 points Flurry... sounds painful.

I'm just so freaking frustrated with my warrior, especially after turning the druid into a tree. I'm enjoying the healing business more than I ever thought possible, but sitting on TWO gimps now is just too much.

I mean here I am, all worried about how to tank myself into heroics, when all I really need to do is to strap on my Gladiator junk, add a little hit rating, and start beating on stuff until it stops moving in whatever heroic instance I want. Not optimal for sure, but it certainly beats having to worry about resistances, shields, and whatnot ONLY so some PuG has an idiot to load the responsibility on.

I dont want to do this tanking thing anymore. I'm sick and tired of being expected to remember each and every pull in whatever many instances. I just want to have fun with my guildies... preferably with a build that allows me to switch between PvE and PvP by finding a phone booth and changing my outfit.

Edited, Apr 17th 2008 1:26pm by Kanngarnix

eh, you knew what i meant. i was posting at 2am for crying out loud.

So...

Yet again I listened to my great mentor Quor. Second Wind and 3/5 Flurry. Picked up Piercing Howl at the cost of 1 point in Commanding Presence, but other than that I did the usual things...

I went to Nagrand to grind on some Ogres to get used to my buttons being back in place and managed to achieve the secondary objective as well - Ragesteel Gloves pattern since I got the shoulder plans a little while ago in SMV. I'll be crafting those 2 soon, and with 2 yellow sockets, set bonus, and finishing a last trip to SV for the Glyph I'll actually be hit-capped sooner than I thought.

Have to find 2 trinkets real quick though, as I picked the tanking version of Bladefists's Breath, and Darbiri's Enigma won't help me much either in terms of DPS. Needless to say that I picked the tanking cloak rather than Core of Ar'kelos, so I'm pretty much eff-ed in that whole department right now.

Only in defensive stance. You should be in zerker stance while dpsing, so no threat gain.



Resilience gives a small bonus to that actually. Every time you get crit, it still works. Every time you take damage, you have a chance of procing enrage equal to your crit reduction. Which is how bliz decided to not-nerf warriors that spec for flurry in pvp.

::EDIT::

Or in PvE even. Having res on gear in aoe type fights for PvE, gives you the chance to proc enrage. Luckily pve magic damage can't crit, but now you can get the enrage proc from it...

Edited, Apr 19th 2008 10:38pm by devioususer

Actually, I'm curious too. That is an awful, awful DPS spec. He asked for a hybrid build and you gave him possibly the worst possible answer; mediocre at best in PvP and more in line with 'godawful' in PvE. What exactly was the point of the answer?

It's truly not impressive; you can get enough Rage to keep MS/WW on cooldown in blues. Bad blues, at that. Speccing for ER in a PvE build is a hideous waste of talents, and while it's not awful depending upon your comp it's definitely not what I'd recommend for someone who is starting to do serious PvP.

ER works on teams when you know you're not going to get hit. That doesn't apply to BGs; it doesn't apply to all Arena teams of any rating; and it certainly doesn't apply when you're PvPing in Scrubland. You will get hit, a lot, until you get above 1850 at the very least... and even then, in smaller Arenas the chance of Enrage being helpful is high. People don't learn to leave you alone until you're a fair bit along, there's no reason to deny yourself the free damage.

You gave awful advice and you're backpedaling, which is fine. Have fun! But you still don't know what you're talking about.



And much like the Ret Paladins who come in yelling about how they got "omg 1st in damage in Kara!!!!!", who cares? You're playing with scrubs. It's an awful, awful PvE spec and the fact that you beat other people says a hell of a lot more about them than it does about you.

Tissue?



Good call - someone asking for information about starting to move into PvP is really going to benefit from a spec designed for high-rating play, and you should assume he's spent a lot of time doing PvP so as to not be ignorant.

And it's nice that you've admitted that 35/23/3 or 33/28 are good specs; was it hard? Did it hurt your insides?



You'll be hit a decent amount in most 2v2 and some 3v3s. It certainly isn't a universal truth, and approaching it as such is moronic.


It's nice to be appreciated.

in rp's defense he doesnt "suck" at pvp. yes, hes more into pve than pvp, but i know his s2 ratings were above 1900 in at least one bracket, and he managed to take war/shammy decently far in 2's during s1 and s2.

not the best by any means, but not sucky either.

/popcorn Anyone have any butter?

I admit that it was a bad idea to give an ER spec to a new PvP'er, I do.



Yep, I'm floating around in the 1700's. Did you even bother to see how many games I've played? I'm not playing that much in this season at all. So yeah I'm slacking this season, but I can easily get 2k if i consistently played. But did you even care to look at the number of games I've played or the last time my Druid logged on? My Druid is currently at home from Iraq visiting his family and he is unable to get on WoW, I had someone else play him for a little bit but they obviously sucked so I'm just waiting for him to come back.



I'm not really sure if you still think Proximo shows talents, but it doesn't. And in 2 v 2, the warrior is still a very high Primary target in arena just as I said, even in 'scrub land', 45/13/3 would be very effective considering most scrubs would attack a clothy instead of a Warrior.



And what have you accomplished? Getting shoulders and then failing with your teams? Your team ratings are terrible as well, your 3 v 3 team which got you your shoulders is 93 - 68. Very nice! And you're very 'recent' shaman/warrior team is 112 - 90, wow! You're just that guy that got lucky and actually hit 2k when the scrubs were playing, and then when the good PvP'ers started to rise up, you failed, Congratulations.

And I may not know anything near what you know in PvE, and I don't really care because I don't PvE. But I think it's funny that you think you know more about PvP than me because you know what to recommend to a 'scrub' PvP warrior and you bursted up your way to to 2k with one of the easiest combos in the game.



I did admit it, but you just had to keep going :D

So yeah, you may know SOME of the concepts of PvP, but i highly doubt you will ever get above 2k ever again. No matter how many games you actually play, you fail :D

Generally, I'd say ER in PvE, is really not very useful. 1 sec cooldown reduction on MS though, can increase it's DPS a lot.

::EDIT::

Forgot to mention a 115 dps 2h, 3.5 speed...

::/EDIT::

With some basic stats, 1600 AP unbuffed, 28% crit not in zerker, and 95 hit rating. I get ~525 DPS calculated, just white damage and MS on cooldown. With 5/5 imp MS, that goes up to ~575. ~8.6% dps increase. While I still would suggest flurry over imp MS; every single time anyone asks me ever when in regards to PvE dps.

With 2500 AP, 30% crit, and 143 hit, it goes from ~675 dps to ~733 dps wit 5/5 imp ms. a ~7.9% increase in DPS. Which is depressing, but not altogether bad. Spending 5 talent points for an 8% increase to overall DPS is rather nice.

Flurry is by far one of the most IMPORTANT aspects of PvE dps for warriors. And talent point for talent point, provides some of the best increases to overall DPS outputs.

Many warriors do about 50/50 to 60/40 PvE Skill/White damage. So, if flurry is 3/5, 15% increase to a 40-50% of the total dps, that's a 6-7.5% increase for 3 talent points, AND you can spec Blood frenzy (4% overall physical damage increase, debuff) for a total of another 4% overal DPS increase. And that % increase doesn't deflate the same way that MS does.

So, I say, Flurry > Imp MS for PvE. While, for PvP, Flurry and Enrage are being, sadly, pushed out of the spotlight in top end PvP.

PvE dps is heavily reliant on min/maxing. Same with good PvP. It's near impossible to say that any single spec will do both PvE DPS and PvP equally well, and still be a good spec.

The build can do dps, but if I was a raid leader, and found out that one of my 2h war's was running a build like that. I'd give them a warning first, tell them that next raid they should have a proper DPS spec. If they showed up again with that spec, I'd start talking to their class officer (usually me) and have them put on an alternative roster.

50G a respec isn't all that much, and honestly you should respec for each thing you are planning on doing, endgame. PvP specs stay in PvP, PvE specs stay in PvE.

Having a hybrid spec isn't bad, it's just not as good as you could be otherwise.

Edited, Apr 21st 2008 11:07pm by devioususer

This guy appears to be receiving a serious beatdown via forum posts.