I've been thinking about how paladins add a lot to a group, and it got me thinking about how effective a group with three paladins in it would be, if each pallie spec'd in a different tree.
The Ret paladin brings improved BoM and either improved Retribution or improved Sanctity aura. The Prot pallie brings BoK and improved Devotion. The Holy pallie brings improved BoW and a resistance aura depending upon enemies.
The question is, would an all-pallie team like this work in 3v3? How about in 5v5 if paired with some DPS?
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a 3v3 pali team would be good they would still have deficiencies they are a support role. As a tank they would do good but the DPS is not as effective as a mage, warrior, druid or hunter... It is a great concept a whole team that could watch thier own backs while supporting another but ultimately it comes down to how knowledable the pali's are. I think they would be an awsome team you know a tank that could resurrect the healer but I feel that pali's have to many deciencies as main roles
Here's what will happen, your buffs will all be dispelled almost instantly (enough classes have abilities that do that), any kiting class can and will kite all of you effectively. The prot pally would be ignored, the holy paly would be burned down, and the ret pally would be trying desperately to kill 3 people.
It wouldn't work.
It wouldn't work.
Maybe 2 rets and a holy, but having the prot pally in arena is basically useless.
Yes he can let a rogue or maybe warrior beat on his shield for a while and he would have high survivability, but he has neither of the things that are important in arena: control of an enemy and sustained damage.
Yes he can let a rogue or maybe warrior beat on his shield for a while and he would have high survivability, but he has neither of the things that are important in arena: control of an enemy and sustained damage.
It'll be one long fight.
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Maybe 2 rets and a holy, but having the prot pally in arena is basically useless.
Even that would be an exercise in futility. Rets can't kill a healer--any healer--or anything being healed without help.
Vhalin wrote:
It'll be one long fight.
QFT.
you need 5 shockadins, have them all group up and hit consicrate x 5. hammer of justice rotaions on the healer + holy shock. bubbles to save thier own hide and decent healing to boot.
no idea how good it would work, but i would love to see it in action.
no idea how good it would work, but i would love to see it in action.
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Even that would be an exercise in futility. Rets can't kill a healer--any healer--or anything being healed without help.
Well, I can lock them out of healing for about 12 seconds. Hammer of Justice + repentance + Arcane Torrent. If I get some crits in, I might be able to take them out in that time.
But yeah... usually need some kind of help.
The RuenBahamut of Doom wrote:
you need 5 shockadins, have them all group up and hit consicrate x 5. hammer of justice rotaions on the healer + holy shock. bubbles to save thier own hide and decent healing to boot.
no idea how good it would work, but i would love to see it in action.
no idea how good it would work, but i would love to see it in action.
Everyone runs out of the bubble, the team's second healer keeps the one healer you are working on alive and dispels the hammer of justice. Everyone laughs as you just all OOM'd yourselves, and continues to slowly but surely kill every last one of ya.
i agree that 1 pally sucks at taking out any spec'd healer. but 2 Ret pallies would eat anyone alive. there are no combo pts or rage generation needed. just quick stuns and heavy burst out of the gate. /target clothie and now we have a 3 on 2 fight.
tommyguns wrote:
i agree that 1 pally sucks at taking out any spec'd healer. but 2 Ret pallies would eat anyone alive. there are no combo pts or rage generation needed. just quick stuns and heavy burst out of the gate. /target clothie and now we have a 3 on 2 fight.
Yeah, because the clothie's two accomplices are just going to be standing around in the outfield picking cherries, amirite?
unless they have a full time Cyclone monkey, not much you can do to 2 Ret and their healer.
Yeah, that's true... I guess stunning, snaring, fearing, sheeping, rooting, incapacitating, and otherwise just CC'ing the hell out of them doesn't really work anymore.
Gaudion wrote:
tommyguns wrote:
i agree that 1 pally sucks at taking out any spec'd healer. but 2 Ret pallies would eat anyone alive. there are no combo pts or rage generation needed. just quick stuns and heavy burst out of the gate. /target clothie and now we have a 3 on 2 fight.
Yeah, because the clothie's two accomplices are just going to be standing around in the outfield picking cherries, amirite?
Wouldn't they be attacking the healer?
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Even that would be an exercise in futility. Rets can't kill a healer--any healer--or anything being healed without help.
lol... I can easy kill a healer (without help), only having problems with druid BUT they're going down too..
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Yeah, that's true... I guess stunning, snaring, fearing, sheeping, rooting, incapacitating, and otherwise just CC'ing the hell out of them doesn't really work anymore.
again, very effective vs 1 pally. but each pally gets his own cleanse, trink, BoF, and a bubble. not to mention the healer dispelling at will. aoe CC's have a really sad CD, and single target CC just wouldn't cut it. we have no cast time, so we can kill while taking the beating.
out of the gate 2 Venegful pallies could drop 4-6k dmg(depending on resil and armor) in 5 secs...each. too fast for most players to find their 'oh ****' button. even the Holy pally could fart out a 1.5k Holy shock for fun.
CapJack of the Seven Seas wrote:
The RuenBahamut of Doom wrote:
you need 5 shockadins, have them all group up and hit consicrate x 5. hammer of justice rotaions on the healer + holy shock. bubbles to save thier own hide and decent healing to boot.
no idea how good it would work, but i would love to see it in action.
no idea how good it would work, but i would love to see it in action.
Everyone runs out of the bubble, the team's second healer keeps the one healer you are working on alive and dispels the hammer of justice. Everyone laughs as you just all OOM'd yourselves, and continues to slowly but surely kill every last one of ya.
i was more or less thinking about 5 sets of buffed consicrates tearing up the DPS while working on the healers. would they be able to keep up with everything at once?
If the dps run out of the consecrate when they realize the damage they are doing.... yeah the healer can keep up.
tommyguns wrote:
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Yeah, that's true... I guess stunning, snaring, fearing, sheeping, rooting, incapacitating, and otherwise just CC'ing the hell out of them doesn't really work anymore.
again, very effective vs 1 pally. but each pally gets his own cleanse, trink, BoF, and a bubble. not to mention the healer dispelling at will. aoe CC's have a really sad CD, and single target CC just wouldn't cut it. we have no cast time, so we can kill while taking the beating.
out of the gate 2 Venegful pallies could drop 4-6k dmg(depending on resil and armor) in 5 secs...each. too fast for most players to find their 'oh sh*t' button. even the Holy pally could fart out a 1.5k Holy shock for fun.
As usual, tommy, you're just thinking too narrowly within the confines of your Ret-tard pew-pew tunnel vision. I'm not going to get into another huge theorycrafting debate with you, so I'll just ask the obvious... What's your rating with that Ret/Ret/healer team in 3's, hmm?
zepoodle wrote:
Gaudion wrote:
tommyguns wrote:
i agree that 1 pally sucks at taking out any spec'd healer. but 2 Ret pallies would eat anyone alive. there are no combo pts or rage generation needed. just quick stuns and heavy burst out of the gate. /target clothie and now we have a 3 on 2 fight.
Yeah, because the clothie's two accomplices are just going to be standing around in the outfield picking cherries, amirite?
Wouldn't they be attacking the healer?
In which case both teams lose their healer and it's a 2v2, not a 3v2.
Exactly, while the retri pally can match and sometimes even beat other dps classes on damage (especially burst damage) they aren't as effective as many other classes when used alone or in tandem for the following reasons:
1) They are melee, many classes are adept at fleeing, BoF and PoJ do help alleviate this somewhat, so its not a biggie, the lack of intercept still ranks them behind warriors in this regard, especially if said warrior has a pally keeping him moving.
2) They lack CC, stun and repentence is nice, but both have a sizeable cooldown and are dispellable.
3) They lack spell interrupts, horde pallys have arcane torrent but allys have nothing, its worth noting that their closest competition (rogues and warriors) are both very good in this department.
4) They are crit reliant, so suffer badly in the higher echelons where the enemy is likely to be res capped or close too it.
Don't get me wrong, this doesn't mean they are completeley useless, but they need help to get the most out of them, unlike say warriors or warlocks who can do very well as a lone dps (and hence are common as muck in 2v2.)
1) They are melee, many classes are adept at fleeing, BoF and PoJ do help alleviate this somewhat, so its not a biggie, the lack of intercept still ranks them behind warriors in this regard, especially if said warrior has a pally keeping him moving.
2) They lack CC, stun and repentence is nice, but both have a sizeable cooldown and are dispellable.
3) They lack spell interrupts, horde pallys have arcane torrent but allys have nothing, its worth noting that their closest competition (rogues and warriors) are both very good in this department.
4) They are crit reliant, so suffer badly in the higher echelons where the enemy is likely to be res capped or close too it.
Don't get me wrong, this doesn't mean they are completeley useless, but they need help to get the most out of them, unlike say warriors or warlocks who can do very well as a lone dps (and hence are common as muck in 2v2.)
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What's your rating with that Ret/Ret/healer team in 3's, hmm?
nil atm. but it does raise my curiousity to try it. i just need to find another equally geared Ret and we're gtg. more on this in a few weeks.
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In which case both teams lose their healer and it's a 2v2, not a 3v2.
i didnt suggest the killing the healer. i suggested killing a clothie.
tommyguns wrote:
i didnt suggest the killing the healer. i suggested killing a clothie.
Alright, look... without getting into the nitty-gritty of theorycrafting against the three potential clothies (have fun with those Warlocks and Frost Mages, by the way), the fatal flaw in your plan is this: No interrupts, no healing debuff. Even if you chain both HoJ's and Repentances on a target and just go nuts, if that target has an unmolested healer around, he's going to be recovering 4-6k life every three seconds at least, and the third member of the team is going to be harrassing you as well in addition to possible harrassment from the healer, and if your target is the healer, you'll have both the DPS harrassing you.
Can you wreck someone with two Ret Pallies? Yeah, absolutely. If all you care about is numbers it looks great on paper. But in reality it's just not as simple as blowing in and wham, bam, thank you, ma'am, one down and two to go.
Try it yourself, or present me with a team with that set-up with a decent rating and then we'll talk.
On the topic of odd Arena teams, how long do you think that a team with any combo of Resto Druid/Disc Priest would last? You know, just as an annoyance match.
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