or just simply Ancestral Knowledge (+5% mana) or Nature's Guardian (chance to heal yourself when struck below 30%)?
I am currently 0/0/61 and I have taken alot of flak for it. I personnaly do not believe an extra ~500 mp is much at all and nature's guardian has saved my butt many times, however I do not want to gimp my group just becasue I am being stubborn on my spec choices. I am a newly dinged 70 with a few 5-man boss drops sprinkled in with some quest gear. Needless to say I am nowhere near raid (or heriocs) ready, so I tend to run alot of the regular 70 man instances. Should I man up and respec or will this work out for me at this level?
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0/5/56 or 0/0/61?Follow
0/0/61, the 5 points in ancestral knowldge aren't worth well.... 5 points.
Elitist Jerks wrote:
III. Talent Specs
These are the main healing specs for raiding: 8-0-53 (recommended for new content) or 0-12-49 (recommended for farm content, mobility, DPS). You can also spec 0-5-56 and 0-0-61 but they are not recommended.
0-12-49
You get the ability to cast ghost wolf instantly, plus the improved strength and agility totems to boost the DPS done by Hunters (BM) and feral druids. It will give a group an extra 11.5 agility and an extra 12.9 strength. Cheeky's spreadsheet in the Hunter thread can allow your to calculate exactly how much the group's DPS would increase but if your hunters are doing around 1000 DPS, the improved strength and agility totems would boost the DPS of each hunter by about 10 DPS. A feral druid might gain 15-20 DPS. So if the group's DPS increases by 50 DPS, over a 10-minute fight they would do an extra 30,000 damage. The spec sacrifices nothing in healing. What you lose is survivability (by giving up Nature's Guardian and Elemental Warding). However, if that's not an issue, extra DPS never hurts.
Here's a sample of the 0-12-49 spec
8-0-53
This spec is the best for raiding, especially when you are first learning an encounter. The build is designed to reduce the damage taken by fire, frost and nature by 10% while maintaining all the core healing talents. Shaman put 5 points in Concussion and 3 in Elemental Warding.
Many bosses in SSC, Black Temple and Mount Hyjal do quite a bit of elemental damage to the raid. And let's not forget all the elemental damage in Kara. The less damage you take, the less time and mana you have to spend healing yourself. This also boosts your ability to survive.
Here is a sample of the 8-0-53 spec
If you want both Elemental Warding and instant Ghost Wolf here's a 8-7-46 spec
If you want both Nature's Guardian and instant Ghost Wolf you can try 0-7-54
0-5-56
This is a very common spec but it’s not the strongest use of talent points.
Five points in Ancestral Knowledge boosts your mana pool by 5%. It sounds like a lot but a closer look shows you get a poor return on the points spent. The extra mana will probably be only enough to cast one extra chain heal.
Existing mana pool: 10,000
+5%: 10,500
Boost to mana tide: 120/5 minutes = 2 mp5
The smaller your mana pool, the less benefit you receive. A shaman with 8,000 mana gains an extra 400 mana and only 1.67 mp5 through Mana Tide.
Here is a sample of the 0-5-56 spec
0-0-61
This spec allows you to pick up nearly every talent in the resto tree. However, 8-0-53 is still the best choice.
If you raid and PVP, you could try 8-7-46. Here's a sample You don't have the talent to reduce threat from healing by 15% so be careful at the start of a fight or during transitions if the boss drops aggro. Also, this is not a pure PVP spec. If you want to get a high arena rating, there are probably better ways to spend your talent points.
So is there ever a reason to spec 0-5-56 or 0-0-61?
Yes, when you're raiding zones that have no raid-wide fire, frost or nature damage. The zone should also have no reason for you to need to move quickly outdoors.
These are the main healing specs for raiding: 8-0-53 (recommended for new content) or 0-12-49 (recommended for farm content, mobility, DPS). You can also spec 0-5-56 and 0-0-61 but they are not recommended.
0-12-49
You get the ability to cast ghost wolf instantly, plus the improved strength and agility totems to boost the DPS done by Hunters (BM) and feral druids. It will give a group an extra 11.5 agility and an extra 12.9 strength. Cheeky's spreadsheet in the Hunter thread can allow your to calculate exactly how much the group's DPS would increase but if your hunters are doing around 1000 DPS, the improved strength and agility totems would boost the DPS of each hunter by about 10 DPS. A feral druid might gain 15-20 DPS. So if the group's DPS increases by 50 DPS, over a 10-minute fight they would do an extra 30,000 damage. The spec sacrifices nothing in healing. What you lose is survivability (by giving up Nature's Guardian and Elemental Warding). However, if that's not an issue, extra DPS never hurts.
Here's a sample of the 0-12-49 spec
8-0-53
This spec is the best for raiding, especially when you are first learning an encounter. The build is designed to reduce the damage taken by fire, frost and nature by 10% while maintaining all the core healing talents. Shaman put 5 points in Concussion and 3 in Elemental Warding.
Many bosses in SSC, Black Temple and Mount Hyjal do quite a bit of elemental damage to the raid. And let's not forget all the elemental damage in Kara. The less damage you take, the less time and mana you have to spend healing yourself. This also boosts your ability to survive.
Here is a sample of the 8-0-53 spec
If you want both Elemental Warding and instant Ghost Wolf here's a 8-7-46 spec
If you want both Nature's Guardian and instant Ghost Wolf you can try 0-7-54
0-5-56
This is a very common spec but it’s not the strongest use of talent points.
Five points in Ancestral Knowledge boosts your mana pool by 5%. It sounds like a lot but a closer look shows you get a poor return on the points spent. The extra mana will probably be only enough to cast one extra chain heal.
Existing mana pool: 10,000
+5%: 10,500
Boost to mana tide: 120/5 minutes = 2 mp5
The smaller your mana pool, the less benefit you receive. A shaman with 8,000 mana gains an extra 400 mana and only 1.67 mp5 through Mana Tide.
Here is a sample of the 0-5-56 spec
0-0-61
This spec allows you to pick up nearly every talent in the resto tree. However, 8-0-53 is still the best choice.
If you raid and PVP, you could try 8-7-46. Here's a sample You don't have the talent to reduce threat from healing by 15% so be careful at the start of a fight or during transitions if the boss drops aggro. Also, this is not a pure PVP spec. If you want to get a high arena rating, there are probably better ways to spend your talent points.
So is there ever a reason to spec 0-5-56 or 0-0-61?
Yes, when you're raiding zones that have no raid-wide fire, frost or nature damage. The zone should also have no reason for you to need to move quickly outdoors.
Edit: Added links
Edited, Apr 16th 2008 10:16am by Ailitardif
Edited, Apr 16th 2008 10:20am by Ailitardif
So, the EJ forum is saying that the 0/0/61 full resto spec is more viable than the 0/5/56 spec, however if I wish to raid, than I should pick up some elemental talents while cutting totemic focus and improved reincarnation (NOT nature's guardian).
Interesting choices, I never would have considered dropping those.
Interesting choices, I never would have considered dropping those.
calindc wrote:
So, the EJ forum is saying that the 0/0/61 full resto spec is more viable than the 0/5/56 spec, however if I wish to raid, than I should pick up some elemental talents while cutting totemic focus and improved reincarnation (NOT nature's guardian).
Interesting choices, I never would have considered dropping those.
Interesting choices, I never would have considered dropping those.
I use the 61 in resto, but I might change...
In the 0-12-49 I don't like the one point in lightning shield. If you were going to do that build I would put that one in thundering strikes (1% more crits for soloing) I never use lightning shield, but I do melee a bit while soloing.
But if you're new to 70, I would say use the 8/0/53 or the 0/0/61. The 0/5/56 is a huge waste of 5 points
Scholar
45 posts
I am curious why in the 0/12/49 spec you would have 2 points in Guardian totems, 1 point in lightning shield and 2 point in Improved Ghost Wolf?
Once you hit 70 you pretty much no longer use Stoneskin and Windwall is worthless no matter what level. 2 secs on grounding totem which gets resisted a lot is not worth 2 points IMO.
Improved LS is a waste too, it would be a better spent point in even Shield Specilization.
I dont get what everybody's obsession is with instant Ghost Wolf. I mean sure its kind of neat and you might use it from time to time when doing dailies but you can't even use it in an instance. Again seems like a waste to me.
IMO saving mana is more important that any of these. Totemic focus helps with this. Allows you to drop totems in fight more often that if you dont have it. Reduced threat helps a ton depending on your tank but still seems more valuable to me than the above talents. I can agree with them that 5points for 500 mana is a bit weak but they have you putting those 5 points there anyways in the spec.
Again this is just my take on the talents.
Once you hit 70 you pretty much no longer use Stoneskin and Windwall is worthless no matter what level. 2 secs on grounding totem which gets resisted a lot is not worth 2 points IMO.
Improved LS is a waste too, it would be a better spent point in even Shield Specilization.
I dont get what everybody's obsession is with instant Ghost Wolf. I mean sure its kind of neat and you might use it from time to time when doing dailies but you can't even use it in an instance. Again seems like a waste to me.
IMO saving mana is more important that any of these. Totemic focus helps with this. Allows you to drop totems in fight more often that if you dont have it. Reduced threat helps a ton depending on your tank but still seems more valuable to me than the above talents. I can agree with them that 5points for 500 mana is a bit weak but they have you putting those 5 points there anyways in the spec.
Again this is just my take on the talents.
Scholar
48 posts
I used the 0/12/49 build for a while and thought it was great. The strength of this build is putting those two extra points in improved GoA and SoE totems. This really helps melee dps and mobs go down quicker in instances. The imp LS and imp Ghost wolf talents are replaceable by thundering strikes if you find extra weapon crit useful while soloing (like I did). I switched to the 08/0/53 build afterwards when I started doing heroics and Kara since you get a lot of elemental damage there and those three points will help you mitigate elemental damage and thus increases your surviability.
Personally, even though the talents you pick up in a 0/0/61 are all great, I found it a bit of an overkill. I also agree with you that the 5 points in ancestral knowledge could be spent better else where. The elitist jerks post referenced above is a great source of information for resto shamans.
Edited, Apr 16th 2008 12:54pm by jvscubadude
Personally, even though the talents you pick up in a 0/0/61 are all great, I found it a bit of an overkill. I also agree with you that the 5 points in ancestral knowledge could be spent better else where. The elitist jerks post referenced above is a great source of information for resto shamans.
Edited, Apr 16th 2008 12:54pm by jvscubadude
Tycem wrote:
I am curious why in the 0/12/49 spec you would have 2 points in Guardian totems, 1 point in lightning shield and 2 point in Improved Ghost Wolf?
Once you hit 70 you pretty much no longer use Stoneskin and Windwall is worthless no matter what level. 2 secs on grounding totem which gets resisted a lot is not worth 2 points IMO.
Improved LS is a waste too, it would be a better spent point in even Shield Specilization.
I dont get what everybody's obsession is with instant Ghost Wolf. I mean sure its kind of neat and you might use it from time to time when doing dailies but you can't even use it in an instance. Again seems like a waste to me.
IMO saving mana is more important that any of these. Totemic focus helps with this. Allows you to drop totems in fight more often that if you dont have it. Reduced threat helps a ton depending on your tank but still seems more valuable to me than the above talents. I can agree with them that 5points for 500 mana is a bit weak but they have you putting those 5 points there anyways in the spec.
Again this is just my take on the talents.
Once you hit 70 you pretty much no longer use Stoneskin and Windwall is worthless no matter what level. 2 secs on grounding totem which gets resisted a lot is not worth 2 points IMO.
Improved LS is a waste too, it would be a better spent point in even Shield Specilization.
I dont get what everybody's obsession is with instant Ghost Wolf. I mean sure its kind of neat and you might use it from time to time when doing dailies but you can't even use it in an instance. Again seems like a waste to me.
IMO saving mana is more important that any of these. Totemic focus helps with this. Allows you to drop totems in fight more often that if you dont have it. Reduced threat helps a ton depending on your tank but still seems more valuable to me than the above talents. I can agree with them that 5points for 500 mana is a bit weak but they have you putting those 5 points there anyways in the spec.
Again this is just my take on the talents.
Guardian for improved grounding totem, lightning shield for filler (I would recommend thundering strikes), ghost wolf for filler. Enhancing totems is the main goal for these 12 points.
Edit: Shield Specilization is the biggest waste of points possible. The only way it would help is if you were enchancement and using a shield (why would you do that?). I don't think Shields work while casting.
Edited, Apr 16th 2008 12:35pm by Ailitardif
Scholar
45 posts
I wasnt saying shield specialization was worth the points was just saying its better than impoved LS.
ETA: In our raids we always group the people that would benefit from the increase in the totems with an enhance shammy. So I guess thats probably why it seems like so much of a waste to me.
ETA: Random thought while looking at trees. I think they should make Unrelenting Storms a spell instead of a talent. It would be an ok help to enhancement a huge help to Resto and would allow the use of a different talent for Ele.
Edited, Apr 16th 2008 10:40am by Tycem
Edited, Apr 16th 2008 10:43am by Tycem
ETA: In our raids we always group the people that would benefit from the increase in the totems with an enhance shammy. So I guess thats probably why it seems like so much of a waste to me.
ETA: Random thought while looking at trees. I think they should make Unrelenting Storms a spell instead of a talent. It would be an ok help to enhancement a huge help to Resto and would allow the use of a different talent for Ele.
Edited, Apr 16th 2008 10:40am by Tycem
Edited, Apr 16th 2008 10:43am by Tycem
Tycem wrote:
Once you hit 70 you pretty much no longer use Stoneskin and Windwall is worthless no matter what level. 2 secs on grounding totem which gets resisted a lot is not worth 2 points IMO.
Grounding Totem is... an absorbtion buff. It... I don't even think it can be resisted, can it? I've certainly never observed a spell "piercing" my buff.
Quote:
I dont get what everybody's obsession is with instant Ghost Wolf. I mean sure its kind of neat and you might use it from time to time when doing dailies but you can't even use it in an instance. Again seems like a waste to me.
It's a PvP talent and a PvP talent only.
Ailitardif, Star Breaker wrote:
But if you're new to 70, I would say use the 8/0/53 or the 0/0/61. The 0/5/56 is a huge waste of 5 points
QFPT.
The 8/0/53 build is fairly worthless outside of raiding. You're just not going to be taking enough AoE/splash damage in any five or introductory ten-man content to justify it. 0/0/61 is the best PvE build until 25-mans, and I firmly believe that 0/9/52 is the best PvP build.
ya i agree you should never be puting points into resto enhancement unless it is for pvp purposes.
61 resto seems pretty good for the typical resto spec multi purpose shaman.
61 resto seems pretty good for the typical resto spec multi purpose shaman.
Ailitardif, Star Breaker wrote:
Tycem wrote:
I am curious why in the 0/12/49 spec you would have 2 points in Guardian totems, 1 point in lightning shield and 2 point in Improved Ghost Wolf?
Once you hit 70 you pretty much no longer use Stoneskin and Windwall is worthless no matter what level. 2 secs on grounding totem which gets resisted a lot is not worth 2 points IMO.
Improved LS is a waste too, it would be a better spent point in even Shield Specilization.
I dont get what everybody's obsession is with instant Ghost Wolf. I mean sure its kind of neat and you might use it from time to time when doing dailies but you can't even use it in an instance. Again seems like a waste to me.
IMO saving mana is more important that any of these. Totemic focus helps with this. Allows you to drop totems in fight more often that if you dont have it. Reduced threat helps a ton depending on your tank but still seems more valuable to me than the above talents. I can agree with them that 5points for 500 mana is a bit weak but they have you putting those 5 points there anyways in the spec.
Again this is just my take on the talents.
Once you hit 70 you pretty much no longer use Stoneskin and Windwall is worthless no matter what level. 2 secs on grounding totem which gets resisted a lot is not worth 2 points IMO.
Improved LS is a waste too, it would be a better spent point in even Shield Specilization.
I dont get what everybody's obsession is with instant Ghost Wolf. I mean sure its kind of neat and you might use it from time to time when doing dailies but you can't even use it in an instance. Again seems like a waste to me.
IMO saving mana is more important that any of these. Totemic focus helps with this. Allows you to drop totems in fight more often that if you dont have it. Reduced threat helps a ton depending on your tank but still seems more valuable to me than the above talents. I can agree with them that 5points for 500 mana is a bit weak but they have you putting those 5 points there anyways in the spec.
Again this is just my take on the talents.
Guardian for improved grounding totem, lightning shield for filler (I would recommend thundering strikes), ghost wolf for filler. Enhancing totems is the main goal for these 12 points.
Edit: Shield Specilization is the biggest waste of points possible. The only way it would help is if you were enchancement and using a shield (why would you do that?). I don't think Shields work while casting.
Edited, Apr 16th 2008 12:35pm by Ailitardif
As resto you'd be dumb to take the shield talent, but as enhancement in PvP sometimes you're going to need to slap a shield on. 2k+ more armor can really help if you're getting beat on by a rogue.
I never realized how huge the -10% spell dmg taken could be until last night. I just switched my main over to my shaman Sunday night, so last night was my first time healing the Naj'entus fight. Of course, I was the first one to get spined and people around me were too slow getting it out so I died. I reincarnated, but as I now had 0 buffs my health was only 8.2k. Thanks to the talent, I managed to survive the popping of the tidal shield every time though being left with only 500 health each time was nerve wracking to say the least.
Quote:
The 8/0/53 build is fairly worthless outside of raiding.
25-man raiding, you don't take very much AoE damage in 10-man.
I agree with pretty much everyone. If it's a choice between 0/5/56 and 0/0/61, take the full resto; +5% mana isn't worth it.
8/0/53 is by far the best for 25-man raiding: over half of the raid bosses (2/4 TK, 5/6 SSC, 4/5 MH, 7.5/9 BT) have some kind of nature/fire/frost splash damage. Many of these encounters are more about just staying alive than they are about healing throughput, and the talent is amazing for that purpose.
I'd also like to add that some cutting-edge raiders are starting to use 11/0/50 for Call of Flame on DPS races like Brutallus. The theorycrafting numbers aren't too impressive--searing goes from 100 DPS to 115 DPS with +850 spell damage--but every little bit helps.
8/0/53 is by far the best for 25-man raiding: over half of the raid bosses (2/4 TK, 5/6 SSC, 4/5 MH, 7.5/9 BT) have some kind of nature/fire/frost splash damage. Many of these encounters are more about just staying alive than they are about healing throughput, and the talent is amazing for that purpose.
I'd also like to add that some cutting-edge raiders are starting to use 11/0/50 for Call of Flame on DPS races like Brutallus. The theorycrafting numbers aren't too impressive--searing goes from 100 DPS to 115 DPS with +850 spell damage--but every little bit helps.
So pretty much, it'd be best to go 0/0/61 until you get into more 25-man raids, then use 8/0/53?
That's about the long and the short of it.
What would be an example of a 0/0/61 build then? I was looking at the talents provided and some seem like they could be taken but then again others could be taken as well. (The sticky and the one post above doesn't have an example, that I saw)
you can afford to get just about everything
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/shaman/talents.html?tal=0000000000000000000000000000000000000000055035051355313515321
you miss out on imp reincarnate and nature's guidance, not a big loss.
8/0/53 example:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/shaman/talents.html?tal=5003000000000000000000000000000000000000055030051155313514321
0/9/52 example:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/shaman/talents.html?tal=0000000000000000000050202000000000000000054030051355013515321
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/shaman/talents.html?tal=0000000000000000000000000000000000000000055035051355313515321
you miss out on imp reincarnate and nature's guidance, not a big loss.
8/0/53 example:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/shaman/talents.html?tal=5003000000000000000000000000000000000000055030051155313514321
0/9/52 example:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/shaman/talents.html?tal=0000000000000000000050202000000000000000054030051355013515321
I've noticed a lot of people say to not take Imp Reincarnate... why exactly? Is it just due to the fact that you could just eat and drink to bring your health up?
Quote:
I've noticed a lot of people say to not take Imp Reincarnate... why exactly? Is it just due to the fact that you could just eat and drink to bring your health up?
Some view reincarnation as mere wipe recovery, where you can just drink. Others PvP, and reincarnation is useless in arenas.
Others will more logically point out that there are better talents to choose from a min/maxing standpoint, and would be correct. However, I still love those talent points since they allow you to use an ankh like a personal battle rez; the extra health and mana is pretty noticeable.
In much the way that Imp. GW is a PvP-only talent, Imp. Reincarnate is a raiding-only talent. You just won't need it otherwise.
I like imp reincarnation but when i was resto it was used less, now when i am a dps shaman i loved having this talent lol
So pretty much it'd be good to have mainly in either BGs/arenas or raids, otherwise there's really no point in it.
xNocturnalSunx wrote:
So pretty much it'd be good to have mainly in either BGs/arenas or raids, otherwise there's really no point in it.
It's not usable in arenas (i'm assuming we're talking about reincarnation)
I found that imp reincarnation is a very useful "OH ****!" button in raids. If you die you have another life. If you go oom with not pots/mana tide/etc. Just go forth and die. Rez with half mana.
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