I tried respeccing to combat swords but the rushdown playstyle doesn't really suit me so I think I'll go back to being shadowstep. I've assessed my miss-outs in my old shadowstep build (i put in 3 points in improved gouge which i now thought was pointless)
I'm now about to try a shadowstep build with more focus on burst damage and crits... better combo point generation with a touch of decent survivability (ghostly strike in particular). I read on some forums that improved expose armor is pointless so i just filled up imp eviscerate and puncturing wounds. Does anyone have anything to say to this? otherwise I'll take off a point each from both and put it back in EA.
I didn't put points in murder and remorseless attacks since I want to be a viable DPS in instances also.
Here's the build I'm planning on taking:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fhecoxZZqrcshuRsxRk
Any advice would be great. Thanks
Edited, Apr 16th 2008 8:36am by fuchia
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Respeccing to Shadowstep 20/0/41Follow
Drop improved Eviscerate and get Murder and the last point in Cheat Death.
Drop Puncturing Wounds and one point in Master of Subtlety and fill out Sinister calling.
I'm sure there is more to suggest but thats all I can think of at the moment.
Drop Puncturing Wounds and one point in Master of Subtlety and fill out Sinister calling.
I'm sure there is more to suggest but thats all I can think of at the moment.
You're playing ShS daggers aren't you?
I wouldn't reccomend it.
I wouldn't reccomend it.
ShS/Hemo is THE spec. Daggers, although a lot of fun, were basically killed by Resilience.
Check out my spec for the "cookie cutter" (aka the very good spec that works for PvP).
Scholar
16 posts
Lol! I totally missed the points in Sinister calling! Good point bro! Yet I'm still hesitant about putting points on murder... I don't wanna be too pvp-centric.
So now this is how the build looks like
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0ecoxZZqrcshuRsxkt
So now this is how the build looks like
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0ecoxZZqrcshuRsxkt
Scholar
16 posts
Well yeah... but I do switch to fist weaps or swords (when I feel like the daggers ain't cutting it) and they do 1k+ crits if i hemo.
Now that you mentioned this point... I gotta rethink which to prioritize. The whole Idea is I don't wanna lose premed, preparation, hemo and, most importantly, shadowstep.
Now that you mentioned this point... I gotta rethink which to prioritize. The whole Idea is I don't wanna lose premed, preparation, hemo and, most importantly, shadowstep.
fuchia wrote:
Well yeah... but I do switch to fist weaps or swords (when I feel like the daggers ain't cutting it) and they do 1k+ crits if i hemo.
Now that you mentioned this point... I gotta rethink which to prioritize. The whole Idea is I don't wanna lose premed, preparation, hemo and, most importantly, shadowstep.
Now that you mentioned this point... I gotta rethink which to prioritize. The whole Idea is I don't wanna lose premed, preparation, hemo and, most importantly, shadowstep.
The problem is that you really can't have both. 1k Hemos are NOT good. I was doing more than that right when I hit 70, with nothing but proper blues and greens and S1 weapons. Right now, I'm by no means well geared yet, and I hit 1400 hemos on soft mobs and as high as 1700 on badly geared clothies...
If you put points into all of the Dagger specs (Imp Ambush, Imp Backstab, Master of subtlety), you don't have points for talents that give you big hemos.
You say you don't want to be too PvP centric, yet ShS is a PvP build.
Right now, you have a bad PvP build that is equally bad for PvE.
For PvP daggers, use:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0ecoxZZqrcshuRsxkt
For PvP ShS, use:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0ecoxZZqrcshuRsxkt
For PvE - DONT SPEC ShS! Combat destroys it in sustained damage.
Edited, Apr 16th 2008 10:45am by Jordster
fuchia wrote:
Well yeah... but I do switch to fist weaps or swords (when I feel like the daggers ain't cutting it) and they do 1k+ crits if i hemo.
Now that you mentioned this point... I gotta rethink which to prioritize. The whole Idea is I don't wanna lose premed, preparation, hemo and, most importantly, shadowstep.
Now that you mentioned this point... I gotta rethink which to prioritize. The whole Idea is I don't wanna lose premed, preparation, hemo and, most importantly, shadowstep.
Then go with a CC hemo/ShS build and use your swords/fists.
Go to Kara as ShS at least once IMO. ShSing Nightbane midflight is such win (not that it's entirely safe or a good idea in terms of dps or anything, it's just awesome).
Scholar
16 posts
Jordster, Assassin Reject wrote:
ShS/Hemo is THE spec. Daggers, although a lot of fun, were basically killed by Resilience.
Check out my spec for the "cookie cutter" (aka the very good spec that works for PvP).
Okay... considering your point, I'm trying to balance out considerations for hemo, garrote, Eviscerate (coz these are mostly what goes in through my combat rotation) and at the same time some considerations for backstab/ambush (in case I feel like dagger wielding :))
is this better now?
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fhe0oxZZErMobuRRxst
Thanks for all the input guys! Very much appreciated.
Scholar
16 posts
ok i guess this is more balanced now?
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fheMoxZZqrckhuRsxkt
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fheMoxZZqrckhuRsxkt
Jord, your PvP ShS build is exactly the same as your PvP daggers build XD
I'd suggest something like this for PvP ShS:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0ebRiZZxMe0MGRoxst
Options include moving points from Imp EA to Lethality and putting one sub point in Ghostly Strike.
I'd suggest something like this for PvP ShS:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0ebRiZZxMe0MGRoxst
Options include moving points from Imp EA to Lethality and putting one sub point in Ghostly Strike.
No, seriously, put the points in Murder.
Do you have any idea how many mobs are Humanoid, Dragonkin, Giant or Beast? I'm pretty sure that covers every mob in SSC, Gruul's, Zul'aman, and I'm pretty sure TK.
Thats a straight up 2% damage increase on every single on of those mobs. Get it, love it. Especially when you have points in useless talents(Read: Puncturing Wounds).
Do you have any idea how many mobs are Humanoid, Dragonkin, Giant or Beast? I'm pretty sure that covers every mob in SSC, Gruul's, Zul'aman, and I'm pretty sure TK.
Thats a straight up 2% damage increase on every single on of those mobs. Get it, love it. Especially when you have points in useless talents(Read: Puncturing Wounds).
Scholar
16 posts
GodOfMoo wrote:
No, seriously, put the points in Murder.
Do you have any idea how many mobs are Humanoid, Dragonkin, Giant or Beast? I'm pretty sure that covers every mob in SSC, Gruul's, Zul'aman, and I'm pretty sure TK.
Thats a straight up 2% damage increase on every single on of those mobs. Get it, love it. Especially when you have points in useless talents(Read: Puncturing Wounds).
Do you have any idea how many mobs are Humanoid, Dragonkin, Giant or Beast? I'm pretty sure that covers every mob in SSC, Gruul's, Zul'aman, and I'm pretty sure TK.
Thats a straight up 2% damage increase on every single on of those mobs. Get it, love it. Especially when you have points in useless talents(Read: Puncturing Wounds).
Alright... pretty convincing :)
How about this build now?
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fheboxZZqrckhuRsxkt
Oopps @ link mistakes ...
Anyway look at my Rogue in armory in my signature. That is the only way to spec for PvP in my opinion - and for heroics I just put on my PvE gear and do fine, even if Combat is better.
Look at my PvP guide, please.
Seriously, I'm too sick to make a witty comment about how ******* dumb you are.
Just
read
it.
Seriously, I'm too sick to make a witty comment about how ******* dumb you are.
Just
read
it.
Kavekk wrote:
Go to Kara as ShS at least once IMO. ShSing Nightbane midflight is such win (not that it's entirely safe or a good idea in terms of dps or anything, it's just awesome).
When my guild starts yelling at me, I'm going to blame you. Because I gotta try that. >:)
Scholar
16 posts
Overlord Theophany wrote:
Look at my PvP guide, please.
Seriously, I'm too sick to make a witty comment about how @#%^ing dumb you are.
Just
read
it.
Seriously, I'm too sick to make a witty comment about how @#%^ing dumb you are.
Just
read
it.
Forgive me, leet dude. I don't play 24/7 like you do.
fuchia wrote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:
Look at my PvP guide, please.
Seriously, I'm too sick to make a witty comment about how @#%^ing dumb you are.
Just
read
it.
Seriously, I'm too sick to make a witty comment about how @#%^ing dumb you are.
Just
read
it.
Forgive me, leet dude. I don't play 24/7 like you do.
Forgive me, moron. You were asking for comments. I made a comment.
You whine, I call you a moron. See?
Moron.
Jordster, Assassin Reject wrote:
Anyway look at my Rogue in armory in my signature.
Question about 20/0/41 (your build) as opposed to 0/20/41 (my build):
Your build gives you:
- 5% more crit
- 30% more dam on your Hemo/Ghostly Strike/Gouge crits,
- better CP generation and energy management (Relentless Strike/Ruthlessness),
- 2% more dam (Murder) and
- more dam from poisons and lower chance for them to be dispelled.
My build gives me:
- longer Gouge (making restealth possible),
- 5% higher dodge rate,
- 5% more hit,
- Improved Sprint,
- 50% more dam from off-hand (ambidextry)
In my view the Improved Sprint is worth choosing my spec, especially with Prep giving you 2 sprints per arena fight at least. A sprint that doesn't free you from frost novas and other similar movement imparing effect really isn't that useful and rogues worst weakness is their inability to stick to a target (less so with ShS, but still). So I find Improved Sprint to be a really important skill. As for the rest, I have difficulties what is better but I guess it more or less evens out, so I'd say that 20 in combat is better than 20 in assassination.
Obviously, you think otherwise and I'd be happy to know why.
Thanks,
nostra
Edited, Apr 17th 2008 1:47pm by nostraaa
Scholar
16 posts
Hey listen, if you do not have anything good to say don't say anything at all. I know you're one of the elite rogues in this forum but that doesn't mean you should flame on lesser experienced people everytime one asks for CONSTRUCTIVE criticisms. You can criticize, but be at least polite! So grow up and learn to be respectful. Also don't claim you know people well enough to call them names.
Anyway, I read your post. Thanks for the input.
Forgive me, leet dude. I don't play 24/7 like you do.
Forgive me, moron. You were asking for comments. I made a comment.
You whine, I call you a moron. See?
Moron.
Anyway, I read your post. Thanks for the input.
Overlord Theophany wrote:
fuchia wrote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:
Look at my PvP guide, please.
Seriously, I'm too sick to make a witty comment about how @#%^ing dumb you are.
Just
read
it.
Seriously, I'm too sick to make a witty comment about how @#%^ing dumb you are.
Just
read
it.
Forgive me, leet dude. I don't play 24/7 like you do.
Forgive me, moron. You were asking for comments. I made a comment.
You whine, I call you a moron. See?
Moron.
Scholar
16 posts
I also liked the idea for good defensive measures Nostraa. Imagine what you can achieve with Ghostly stike and evasion with your build? Matrix time I bet.
Anyway look at my Rogue in armory in my signature.
Question about 20/0/41 (your build) as opposed to 0/20/41 (my build):
Your build gives you:
- 5% more crit
- 30% more dam on your Hemo/Ghostly Strike/Gouge crits,
- better CP generation and energy management (Relentless Strike/Ruthlessness),
- 2% more dam (Murder) and
- more dam from poisons and lower chance for them to be dispelled.
My build gives me:
- longer Gouge (making restealth possible),
- 5% higher dodge rate,
- 5% more hit,
- Improved Sprint,
- 50% more dam from off-hand (ambidextry)
In my view the Improved Sprint is worth choosing my spec, especially with Prep giving you 2 sprints per arena fight at least. A sprint does doesn't free you from frost novas and such really isn't that useful and rogues worst weakness is their inability to stick to a target (less so with ShS, but still). So I find Improved Sprint to be a really important skill. As for the rest, I have difficulties what is better but I guess it more or less evens out, so I'd say that 20 in combat is better than 20 in assassination.
Obviously, you think otherwise and I'd be happy to know why.
Thanks,
nostra
nostraaa wrote:
Jordster, Assassin Reject wrote:
Anyway look at my Rogue in armory in my signature.
Question about 20/0/41 (your build) as opposed to 0/20/41 (my build):
Your build gives you:
- 5% more crit
- 30% more dam on your Hemo/Ghostly Strike/Gouge crits,
- better CP generation and energy management (Relentless Strike/Ruthlessness),
- 2% more dam (Murder) and
- more dam from poisons and lower chance for them to be dispelled.
My build gives me:
- longer Gouge (making restealth possible),
- 5% higher dodge rate,
- 5% more hit,
- Improved Sprint,
- 50% more dam from off-hand (ambidextry)
In my view the Improved Sprint is worth choosing my spec, especially with Prep giving you 2 sprints per arena fight at least. A sprint does doesn't free you from frost novas and such really isn't that useful and rogues worst weakness is their inability to stick to a target (less so with ShS, but still). So I find Improved Sprint to be a really important skill. As for the rest, I have difficulties what is better but I guess it more or less evens out, so I'd say that 20 in combat is better than 20 in assassination.
Obviously, you think otherwise and I'd be happy to know why.
Thanks,
nostra
nostraaa wrote:
Jordster, Assassin Reject wrote:
Anyway look at my Rogue in armory in my signature.
Question about 20/0/41 (your build) as opposed to 0/20/41 (my build):
Your build gives you:
- 5% more crit
- 30% more dam on your Hemo/Ghostly Strike/Gouge crits,
- better CP generation and energy management (Relentless Strike/Ruthlessness),
- 2% more dam (Murder) and
- more dam from poisons and lower chance for them to be dispelled.
My build gives me:
- longer Gouge (making restealth possible),
- 5% higher dodge rate,
- 5% more hit,
- Improved Sprint,
- 50% more dam from off-hand (ambidextry)
In my view the Improved Sprint is worth choosing my spec, especially with Prep giving you 2 sprints per arena fight at least. A sprint does doesn't free you from frost novas and such really isn't that useful and rogues worst weakness is their inability to stick to a target (less so with ShS, but still). So I find Improved Sprint to be a really important skill. As for the rest, I have difficulties what is better but I guess it more or less evens out, so I'd say that 20 in combat is better than 20 in assassination.
Obviously, you think otherwise and I'd be happy to know why.
Thanks,
nostra
Hey, I'm not Jordster (obviously) but I'll try and cover why people take 20/0/41 over the combat equvalent most of the time.
Basically, Druids (and oher dispellers). Without 40% poison resist you'll really struggle to keep a 5 stack of wound poison up on a target with abolish ticking. Furthermore, the lack of imp sprint is less important because your crippling poison is less likely to be dispelled, givign you better ability to stick to your target. Plus, as ShS, mobility is not your main weakness.
It's also really hard to get used to not having +25 energy on a finisher once you've played with it a lot. While ShS isn't a burst build so much as mutilate, you still need to be able to apply bursts of pressure to a target.
Additionally, what Jordster is not spcced into, IMP EA, is underrated overall but shines especially in double or triple melee setups such as Rogue/Rogue, Dru/War/Rog and Rog/EnShaman/War/DPriest/HPala.
Anyway, that's basically why 20/0/41 is the more cookie cutter of the two builds. I assume some of that is why Jordster specced into it, but you'll have to wait for a reply from him to know for sure.
Thanks for the reply, pretty much what I expected.
Still, I find myself stuck in a frost nova or entangling roots more ofthen that I'd want to and ShS is up only once every 30 sec, so I'm not sure that Imp Sprint is really unnecessary.
But good point about poison dispels, I might give 20/0/41 a try, it'll cost me only 100 g in the worst case ;)
nostra
Still, I find myself stuck in a frost nova or entangling roots more ofthen that I'd want to and ShS is up only once every 30 sec, so I'm not sure that Imp Sprint is really unnecessary.
But good point about poison dispels, I might give 20/0/41 a try, it'll cost me only 100 g in the worst case ;)
nostra
#25REDACTED,
Posted: Apr 17 2008 at 3:54 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Constructive criticism on a build that has been said over and over and over again on this forum and pretty much every other forum that it's terrible?
Scholar
16 posts
Overlord Theophany wrote:
fuchia wrote:
Hey listen, if you do not have anything good to say don't say anything at all. I know you're one of the elite rogues in this forum but that doesn't mean you should flame on lesser experienced people everytime one asks for CONSTRUCTIVE criticisms. You can criticize, but be at least polite! So grow up and learn to be respectful. Also don't claim you know people well enough to call them names.
Anyway, I read your post. Thanks for the input.
Anyway, I read your post. Thanks for the input.
Constructive criticism on a build that has been said over and over and over again on this forum and pretty much every other forum that it's terrible?
It's not possible to give constructive criticism when the person you're dealing with is obviously a moron.
And if you read here enough to know who I am, you should know what my MO is.
You know what? You're not worth talking to and obviously you're the biggest ******* in this forum, that's what you are regardless of your stature. Everyone is entitled to their choices of builds... Just because you say this build is better than the other doesnt mean we all should follow your ***. You're a hopeless case... coz OBVIOUSLY you weren't brought up well by your momma, you ****** (yeah now I'm calling names you degenerate piece of ****) If you don't like what you're reading here then DON'T! Simple as that. STFU and GTFO dipsh1t.
Oh by the way... I don't give a rat's a$$ about your stupid MO, Mr. High and Mighty. You may play well but you're obviously not a character in real life... So shop for one today.
Waitaminute... maybe I AM talking to a 12 yr. old that still has to grow up... If not, I feel sorry for you... the REAL loser.
Edited, Apr 17th 2008 12:59pm by fuchia
Edited, Apr 17th 2008 1:03pm by fuchia
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