I'm sure this question has been asked many times, but I'm fairly new to priest so forgive me.
My priest is currently Lv. 63, disc/holy spec. I always was under the impression that MP5 gear/gems > spirit of equivalent value. However, I have been noticing on my pries that this doesn't seem to be the case.
Example: I get the nice healing gloves from Norm BF. I try to test my theory. I put a cheap 1mp5 gem on them and my Mana regen goes up a few. I then replace the 1mp5 gem with the cheap 4 spirit gem from the same vendor (in thrallmar inn) and my mana regen (the one under the spell dmg menu) jumps up like 4 points higher than the 1mp5.
Long story short, can anyone explain to me (based off knowledge of game mechanics, not just ur own assumptions) how MP5 and spirit compare for a priest and which is better (although i guess i can just figure that out with an explanation).
Thanks for the help.
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Spirit vs. Mana per 5Follow
Generally, Spirit only affects mana regen outside the "5 second rule" whereas MP5 is just what it's called, mana per 5 seconds.
Check out some more info here:
http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Mana_Regen
Check out some more info here:
http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Mana_Regen
Scholar
28 posts
Someone please correct me, but I thought that this changed with 2.4 to the point that spirit actually tops Mp5 now? I'm no good with the math and could be quite wrong...
You should have Meditation, that every priest should have. That means stacking spirit can become as much a priority as getting MP5 items.
Other than that, spirit-based regeneration does not help at all during a fight.
Other than that, spirit-based regeneration does not help at all during a fight.
Priests (along with mages) have more mana regen from spirit than any other class.
Disc/Holy Priests (along with mages and other classes) can get 30% mana regen from spirit to continue during casting (along with any MP5).
Disc/Holy Priests have methods of staving off the 5-second rule unlike other healers. One can cast a Greater Heal, and when it goes off, immediately hit Renew, then Prayer of Mending, and then Inner Focus. One can spend a couple seconds cancel-casting the next Greater Heal until you see that the tank needs another heal. That heal will be free due to Inner Focus.
Congratulations, you just spent around 5-9 seconds outside the 5SR (with 30% spirit mana regen during the 5 seconds before that). If you have the appropriate amount of spirit, you will have regained a very very sizable amount of mana, more than if you had used the same amount of Item Budget on MP5 instead of spirit.
Disc/Holy Priests (along with mages and other classes) can get 30% mana regen from spirit to continue during casting (along with any MP5).
Disc/Holy Priests have methods of staving off the 5-second rule unlike other healers. One can cast a Greater Heal, and when it goes off, immediately hit Renew, then Prayer of Mending, and then Inner Focus. One can spend a couple seconds cancel-casting the next Greater Heal until you see that the tank needs another heal. That heal will be free due to Inner Focus.
Congratulations, you just spent around 5-9 seconds outside the 5SR (with 30% spirit mana regen during the 5 seconds before that). If you have the appropriate amount of spirit, you will have regained a very very sizable amount of mana, more than if you had used the same amount of Item Budget on MP5 instead of spirit.
Spirit was always a good choice for priests, and many priests went for a mix of spirit and mana/5. With the patch, the value of spirit has increased dramatically.
Let's take a step back and look at how mana regeneration works. You have two rates of mana regeneration: one that is "while casting" (referred to as "inside the five-second rule" or is5sr); the other is "out of casting" (a.k.a. "outside the five-second rule"). The "five-second rule" is thus: Your normal spirit-based regeneration stops for five seconds after you COMPLETE casting a spell. (The word "complete" is key here.)
With a 0/0/0 talent spec and no gear, your "out of casting" regen rate is based entirely on your spirit (modified by your intellect; more int = more regen from spirit). Your "while casting" regen rate is zero.
Mana/5 gems and gear are favored by some because mana/5 makes no distinction between "while casting" and "out of casting"; it's the same whatever your situation. For healers in intense end-game situations, trying to find a way outside the five-second rule could be difficult, so some priests fell back to regen they could count on and didn't have to think about.
The trade-off, however, is that Spirit gives much more regen "out of casting" than mana/5 does at the same budget. The distinction, particularly for priests, is large. Spirit gives more oomph, while mana/5 is always on.
It's not that simple, though. Priests have the talent Meditation, which allows 30% of regen from spirit to continue "while casting". This is a considerable chunk of change. It allows spirit to function as mana/5 while still retaining its "out of combat" value. Furthermore, Spiritual Guidance and Improved Divine Spirit give priests spellpower proportional to their spirit, further increasing that stat's value. Certain items (namely the Bangle of Endless Blessings and the Primal Mooncloth tailoring set) allow additional spirit-based regen to continue, skewing things even more towards spirit.
Spirit also stacks particularly well with the talents Spirit of Redemption and Enlightenment, the human racial "The Human Spirit", and the paladin buff Blessing of Kings. All of these things give percentage bonuses to your spirit scores; mana/5 direct from gear is unaffected.
Now, shadow priests are different. Shadow priests are unique in that spirit is invaluable while leveling and almost useless in the end-game. The reasoning is that while leveling, Spirit Tap allows a high-spirit shadowpriest to be a grinding machine. You're guaranteed the killing blow while you solo, so you guarantee yourself a high return from your spirit. At the end-game, in both raids and PvP, being able to get the killing blow is dubious at best. After all, when you're fighting a boss, you don't need to get mana back after the blasted thing is dead; you need it sooner so you can kill him. So a leveling shadow priest relies heavily on spirit; many end-game shadowpriests do everything in their power to divest themselves of the stat.
Is it prudent to have some mana/5? Sure it is; I do, and with the current itemization it's almost unavoidable. Is it wise to favor mana/5 over spirit? I believe the reverse is true. Spirit has made leaps and bounds in recent patches, and should be the healing priest's preferred statistic. All hail the Purified Shadow Pearl!
Let's take a step back and look at how mana regeneration works. You have two rates of mana regeneration: one that is "while casting" (referred to as "inside the five-second rule" or is5sr); the other is "out of casting" (a.k.a. "outside the five-second rule"). The "five-second rule" is thus: Your normal spirit-based regeneration stops for five seconds after you COMPLETE casting a spell. (The word "complete" is key here.)
With a 0/0/0 talent spec and no gear, your "out of casting" regen rate is based entirely on your spirit (modified by your intellect; more int = more regen from spirit). Your "while casting" regen rate is zero.
Mana/5 gems and gear are favored by some because mana/5 makes no distinction between "while casting" and "out of casting"; it's the same whatever your situation. For healers in intense end-game situations, trying to find a way outside the five-second rule could be difficult, so some priests fell back to regen they could count on and didn't have to think about.
The trade-off, however, is that Spirit gives much more regen "out of casting" than mana/5 does at the same budget. The distinction, particularly for priests, is large. Spirit gives more oomph, while mana/5 is always on.
It's not that simple, though. Priests have the talent Meditation, which allows 30% of regen from spirit to continue "while casting". This is a considerable chunk of change. It allows spirit to function as mana/5 while still retaining its "out of combat" value. Furthermore, Spiritual Guidance and Improved Divine Spirit give priests spellpower proportional to their spirit, further increasing that stat's value. Certain items (namely the Bangle of Endless Blessings and the Primal Mooncloth tailoring set) allow additional spirit-based regen to continue, skewing things even more towards spirit.
Spirit also stacks particularly well with the talents Spirit of Redemption and Enlightenment, the human racial "The Human Spirit", and the paladin buff Blessing of Kings. All of these things give percentage bonuses to your spirit scores; mana/5 direct from gear is unaffected.
Now, shadow priests are different. Shadow priests are unique in that spirit is invaluable while leveling and almost useless in the end-game. The reasoning is that while leveling, Spirit Tap allows a high-spirit shadowpriest to be a grinding machine. You're guaranteed the killing blow while you solo, so you guarantee yourself a high return from your spirit. At the end-game, in both raids and PvP, being able to get the killing blow is dubious at best. After all, when you're fighting a boss, you don't need to get mana back after the blasted thing is dead; you need it sooner so you can kill him. So a leveling shadow priest relies heavily on spirit; many end-game shadowpriests do everything in their power to divest themselves of the stat.
Is it prudent to have some mana/5? Sure it is; I do, and with the current itemization it's almost unavoidable. Is it wise to favor mana/5 over spirit? I believe the reverse is true. Spirit has made leaps and bounds in recent patches, and should be the healing priest's preferred statistic. All hail the Purified Shadow Pearl!
I'd almost be tempted to regem my healing gear with Purified Shadow Pearls but I don't really see myself dropping like 1k gold on a set I don't use very often :p
With spirit you'll be able to (more or less) match the mp5 and you'll notice a handy little boost in your healing if you have imp DS.
With spirit you'll be able to (more or less) match the mp5 and you'll notice a handy little boost in your healing if you have imp DS.
After 2.4 I noticed a huge boost to my MP/5 to the point that I re-gemmed with purified shadow pearls. I have 53 MP/5 between the few pieces of gear that give it. With my primal mooncloth set and ImpDS I'm sitting at 201 MP/5 while casting.
I'm not an expert in the subject but for a toon that is still wearing some early OL dungeon blues and has yet to go into a heroic, 201 MP/5 seems to be a decent number.
Edited, Apr 14th 2008 8:42am by Tirinand
I'm not an expert in the subject but for a toon that is still wearing some early OL dungeon blues and has yet to go into a heroic, 201 MP/5 seems to be a decent number.
Edited, Apr 14th 2008 8:42am by Tirinand
Spirit is much more valuable that it was before 2.4. One of the theory sites sets the values for stats as:
0.67 spirit / 0.51 int / 0.18 stamina / 1 mp5
0.19 +heal / 0.06 spell crit / 0.03 spell haste
This has Mp5 as the most valuable stat but Spirit and Int are more than 2x as valuable as they were.
These values are a bit messy as lower geared 70s will get less from spirit and higher geared 70s will get more from spirit. So you will have to take these numbers under advisment.
0.67 spirit / 0.51 int / 0.18 stamina / 1 mp5
0.19 +heal / 0.06 spell crit / 0.03 spell haste
This has Mp5 as the most valuable stat but Spirit and Int are more than 2x as valuable as they were.
These values are a bit messy as lower geared 70s will get less from spirit and higher geared 70s will get more from spirit. So you will have to take these numbers under advisment.
fluffydragon wrote:
Spirit is much more valuable that it was before 2.4. One of the theory sites sets the values for stats as:
0.67 spirit / 0.51 int / 0.18 stamina / 1 mp5
0.19 +heal / 0.06 spell crit / 0.03 spell haste
This has Mp5 as the most valuable stat but Spirit and Int are more than 2x as valuable as they were.
These values are a bit messy as lower geared 70s will get less from spirit and higher geared 70s will get more from spirit. So you will have to take these numbers under advisment.
0.67 spirit / 0.51 int / 0.18 stamina / 1 mp5
0.19 +heal / 0.06 spell crit / 0.03 spell haste
This has Mp5 as the most valuable stat but Spirit and Int are more than 2x as valuable as they were.
These values are a bit messy as lower geared 70s will get less from spirit and higher geared 70s will get more from spirit. So you will have to take these numbers under advisment.
Fluffy is referring to dwarfpriest.com. The article in question is here:
http://dwarfpriest.com/2008/03/11/weighing-healing-stats-in-patch-24/
That site should really be required reading for priests. Seriously.
The thing to keep in mind, of course, is that gear usually has around 3 or 4 times as much spirit as mp5, so stacking spirit is a lot easier.
Spirit scales with respect to intellect, so if you've got an obscene amount of intellect and very little spirit, spirit will provide a lot of benefit.
Worst-case (chain casting with no breaks ever), 3 spirit ~ 1mp5. Once you get into raiding situations, with the right gear and buffs, they can approach equal values.
Spirit scales with respect to intellect, so if you've got an obscene amount of intellect and very little spirit, spirit will provide a lot of benefit.
Worst-case (chain casting with no breaks ever), 3 spirit ~ 1mp5. Once you get into raiding situations, with the right gear and buffs, they can approach equal values.
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